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Just got a quote for a customer who wants a setup similar to this. Its a Prestige Motorsports 427 600hp turn key, dart shp block, ported afr220’s, 258/266 cam. They’re setting it up with a super vic EFI, throttle body (no elbow, like ed’s pic above), 48lb high impedance injectors with a Holley Terminator X system and msd dual sync distributor. It’s a 4150 series super vic and tb. They dyno right at 600 with that combo. You could get more out of it with a 4500 series combo. But for a street car like my customer has, traction is going to be almost non existent so no reason to push it further. Its going in a fairmont wagon :)
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Just got a quote for a customer who wants a setup similar to this. Its a Prestige Motorsports 427 600hp turn key, dart shp block, ported afr220’s, 258/266 cam. They’re setting it up with a super vic EFI, throttle body (no elbow, like ed’s pic above), 48lb high impedance injectors with a Holley Terminator X system and msd dual sync distributor. It’s a 4150 series super vic and tb. They dyno right at 600 with that combo. You could get more out of it with a 4500 series combo. But for a street car like my customer has, traction is going to be almost non existent so no reason to push it further. Its going in a fairmont wagon :)
Yes, that's almost exactly the set up I'm looking to go with. 600 horsepower is really all I want. Hopefully a set up like this can get me well into the low 10's in what I predict will be a 3300 lbs full weight car.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Yes and no. The Holley uses a wideband to give instantaneous adjustments to fueling to meet the desired AFR at any given throttle position. The system will also "learn" the adjustment so next time around you'll be in the ballpark without the delays associated with adjusting AFR on the fly. Now the key to this is using one of their base tunes that's close to what you need, and obviously putting in the correct info for injectors and sensors etc. This will let you start and drive the car without a ton of knowledge of how the system works. I can confirm that the 1st start of my 427W when I switched from TwEECer to Holley HP was not a major issue and I could start and drive the car immediately.

Now, to get a high-performance engine with a decent cam to run well at the corners takes some learning time and one cannot rely on the self-tuning to fix the issues. In fact, the self-tuning can and will thwart efforts to deal with light-load low RPM tip-ins (as an example) with a larger cam. Even Holley recommends turning off or limiting closed loop and/or learning after you have the tune nailed down. WOT can be dangerous too if your fuel table isn't dialed in, so don't go gunning any engine until you have some idea how far off you are - ease into it and adjust the fuel table after each pull.

So, YES - a close base tune and learning can get you going quickly. NO, you won't be going to the dragstrip before monkeying with the tune for a minimum of a month or so if you're a beginner.
So do you think it would be safe to drive the car to a dyno shop if I use the Holley system, or is it really not a good idea? Also, your car seems like a bad ass sleeper.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Both work.

General consensus will probably be a singe plane with a 4150/4500 type throttle body.

The new Holley intake looks promising as well, if you're ground zero you may want to look at this or the Trick Flow Box R

I was looking at the Holley intake, and yes I'll be starting all over with this build. I won't be using anything from my previous set up... except my rear axle. Everything else is probably going up for sale.
 

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So do you think it would be safe to drive the car to a dyno shop if I use the Holley system, or is it really not a good idea? Also, your car seems like a bad ass sleeper.
I think you could drive it to the dyno shop. Normal driving is handled pretty well right from the git so long as you chose a tune that was in the ballpark to start.
 

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My 427 made 568 rwhp with a ported supervic that had a dominator conversion. I installed a ported 2828 and made 8 more hp and lost a lil tq down low. I had a elbow with a 105mm tb, 117 maf. FTI custom hyd roller 7k shift point. I also had a a9l with a chip. My plans are to eventually go standalone and install a 4500 throttlebody but now this works. Also the car had ac and 11.1 compression, tfs 240cc highports with a T56 magnum. The street manners are great.
 

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everyone i know who has tried one has it sitting on the shelf or a trashcan now... i personally dont know a single person that we race with who is still running a prosystems carb.
wow thats crazy... back in the day they were on top of the game.. hate to hear that.
 

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wow thats crazy... back in the day they were on top of the game.. hate to hear that.
guys will run a out of the box holley before a pro systems these days.
 

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guys will run a out of the box holley before a pro systems these days.
my 91 coupe ran 9.6s on MOTOR with one on pump gas... it was a beast..

got a friend with a chassis car.. 500 cubic inch motor.. ran 2 sv1's 1/8th mile times were 4.5 ON MOTOR and the car was set up for a shot..
 

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My vote is for the new holley efi intake with the side mount throttle body set up.
 

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Definitely run a supervic sized intake. Figure out how to make it fit, else you're going to be down quite a bit of power.

Another option is something along the lines of a Fitech throttle body injection system. It ran extremely well for me. Self tuning was great. After a few days, the tune was perfect. I was also able to keep my AC functionality as well as the electric fan. I allowed FiTech to control the timing. I did a write up on this here....

 

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Get ahold of freezy74 on here. He will get you the right parts. Cam and efi for your combo. he will supply a base tune as well. This will pretty much be spot on. With a data log or two he will have you perfect in no time.

The holley efi has the best support of any efi system. And there are more holley tuners as well.
 

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You can absolutely achieve your goals with the stock computer and a tune. Don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. You can also run whatever intake setup you want. A trickflow box r with 351 lower and 90mm throttle body would be good, or a spider style intake with an elbow from the likes of edelbrock or Wilson will be great at that power level and pull a few pounds off the nose.
 

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My vote is for the new holley efi intake with the side mount throttle body set up.
I'm thinking the same thing but get the sheet metal top side mount instead of the cast. It has more clearance than the cast one looking at the dimensions. The uppers can be bought with the Ford throttle body bolt pattern. At first I thought they were only LS style patterns and you had to buy an LS TB but you can run one you have. I have a new Accufab 90mm and thought I couldn't use it.
 

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I'm thinking the same thing but get the sheet metal top side mount instead of the cast. It has more clearance than the cast one looking at the dimensions. The uppers can be bought with the Ford throttle body bolt pattern. At first I thought they were only LS style patterns and you had to buy an LS TB but you can run one you have. I have a new Accufab 90mm and thought I couldn't use it.
According to Holley, the cast side-entrance is 5.02" from mating surface to highest point, sheet metal version is 5.21" and has a wider surface at that height.

Edit: latest from Holley website shows sheet metal version is 5.21" tall vs. 5.16"
 

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According to Holley, the cast side-entrance is 5.02" from mating surface to highest point, sheet metal version is 5.21" and has a wider surface at that height.

Edit: latest from Holley website shows sheet metal version is 5.21" tall vs. 5.16"
Yes but where the throttle body mounts is like 1" shorter or closer to the center than the cast Holley upper.
That is where it needs clearance the most on the cowl hood, over towards the passenger side where the 2 1/2" cowl rise is coming back into the hood. I have a Hogans upper on one of my cars and that's where it just rubs the hood on the passenger side intake tube. Also the sheet metal Holley looks to be lower on the outside drivers side near the edge of the raised cowl part. Yes its taller but I should have clearance there.
Another thing good about the Holley uppers, they put the TB at a downward angle instead of sticking straight out which will give it even more clearance, at least I'm hoping so!
I have a 351 now in the 89 Saleen I'm getting the Holley for with a Cobra intake. I put play-doh on top of the intake and closed the hood to check where the tightest part would be, and its the passenger side throttle body which is the closest. So bringing the TB in towards the center and with a downward angle hopefully everything will fit.

Below is a pic of my 93 Saleen and the intake tube just barely touches a on a 2.5" cowl hood. On the Holley I will be using a Vortech discharge tube and so far it looks like everthing will fit.

1056997
 

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Yes but where the throttle body mounts is like 1" shorter or closer to the center than the cast Holley upper.
That is where it needs clearance the most on the cowl hood, over towards the passenger side where the 2 1/2" cowl rise is coming back into the hood. I have a Hogans upper on one of my cars and that's where it just rubs the hood on the passenger side intake tube. Also the sheet metal Holley looks to be lower on the outside drivers side near the edge of the raised cowl part. Yes its taller but I should have clearance there.
Another thing good about the Holley uppers, they put the TB at a downward angle instead of sticking straight out which will give it even more clearance, at least I'm hoping so!
I have a 351 now in the 89 Saleen I'm getting the Holley for with a Cobra intake. I put play-doh on top of the intake and closed the hood to check where the tightest part would be, and its the passenger side throttle body which is the closest. So bringing the TB in towards the center and with a downward angle hopefully everything will fit.

Below is a pic of my 93 Saleen and the intake tube just barely touches a on a 2.5" cowl hood. On the Holley I will be using a Vortech discharge tube and so far it looks like everthing will fit.

View attachment 1056997
Ahh, slightly different perspectives. I'm trying to shoehorn the Hi-Ram w/side entrance under my stock hood ('87 Cougar) where I currently have 1 1/4" above the Supervic/3848 elbow combination. I have custom mounts that have the engine shimmed to where the oil pan is a pube hair over the steering rack and I also shimmed up the body about 0.2" as a result of putting angle iron (x2) in-between body and k-member when rebuilding my rotted shock towers.

Supervic (6.25") + 3848 (5.04") = 11.29" (approx.), Holley shows 12.4" overall for Hi-Ram/cast side entrance. That only leaves a tenth of an inch clearance to the hood, more or less depending on how high the Hi-Ram actually sits above the china wall (Super vic is .25" or so.) I like the look of the sheet metal better, but it ain't looking good based on published numbers anyway. (bash it with a hammer? :unsure: )
 

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Ahh, slightly different perspectives. I'm trying to shoehorn the Hi-Ram w/side entrance under my stock hood ('87 Cougar) where I currently have 1 1/4" above the Supervic/3848 elbow combination. I have custom mounts that have the engine shimmed to where the oil pan is a pube hair over the steering rack and I also shimmed up the body about 0.2" as a result of putting angle iron (x2) in-between body and k-member when rebuilding my rotted shock towers.

Supervic (6.25") + 3848 (5.04") = 11.29" (approx.), Holley shows 12.4" overall for Hi-Ram/cast side entrance. That only leaves a tenth of an inch clearance to the hood, more or less depending on how high the Hi-Ram actually sits above the china wall (Super vic is .25" or so.) I like the look of the sheet metal better, but it ain't looking good based on published numbers anyway. (bash it with a hammer? :unsure: )
Wow! Yeah not sure it would fit in your situation, you have done all you can to get the most clearance unless you shim the body up a hair more maybe? I'm going to use the side entrance also.
Where did you find flow numbers for the sheet metal upper vs. the cast? I haven't seen any numbers yet, do they have numbers for the 351 lower also? I will have a Vortech on it so it will be under pressure, I'm not concerned with every last HP either. I just want it to fit under the existing cowl hood, I could always try the cast one later to see if it will fit if the flow numbers are that much better. And I agree the sheet metal upper looks much better.
 
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