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Discussion Starter #1
The imaginary scenario is a typical 427 sbf dart stroker making about 600-650 flywheel horsepower. Assuming I am going to be putting this engine into my 1995 GT, would it be practical to use a plenum style intake using the stock computer with a tune? Or would switching over to a carb style intake with the Holley EFI get better results. What is the easiest route when doing a 9.5 stroker? I just want to do this once, and be done with it.
 

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Both work.

General consensus will probably be a singe plane with a 4150/4500 type throttle body.

The new Holley intake looks promising as well, if you're ground zero you may want to look at this or the Trick Flow Box R
 

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yea, ditch the stock ecu

and get one of those plug and play self learning systems, it will be self aware in no time

the poster is missing the most important aspect of this build

race car?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yes, forgot to add, this will be a street/strip car. I'd say most of the time it will be a full weight street car, but I want to run it at the track to test myself and the car. The car is currently a weekend toy and I plan to keep it that way, so no daily driving.

90% Street Car. 10% Track Car.
 

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Convert a ported 2828 to EFI and a 4500 throttle body.

This ain't a 302 and needs to breathe.

 

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Supervic 2924 EFI intake, Holley EFI TB elbow 300-240F (fits up to 105mm Ford TB) will get you in the middle of that power range.

Due to cam you'll be using, you'll be better off with the Holley EFI. You may be able to achieve similar power with the Box R, and it will be easier to tune for street driving due to longer runners. There are many examples using the Supervic, not so many using the Box R.

My setup (Supervic/elbow) even fits under my stock hood (won't likely fit under an SN95 tho); Box R will require a tall hood. Ed's example will make more power but is somewhat lower on the "practical" scale.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Convert a ported 2828 to EFI and a 4500 throttle body.

This ain't a 302 and needs to breathe.
That's a huge intake, the only thing I'd worry about is the clearance issue with a 2 1/2" cowl hood.

Supervic 2924 EFI intake, Holley EFI TB elbow 300-240F (fits up to 105mm Ford TB) will get you in the middle of that power range.

Due to cam you'll be using, you'll be better off with the Holley EFI. You may be able to achieve similar power with the Box R, and it will be easier to tune for street driving due to longer runners. There are many examples using the Supervic, not so many using the Box R.

My setup (Supervic/elbow) even fits under my stock hood (won't likely fit under an SN95 tho); Box R will require a tall hood. Ed's example will make more power but is somewhat lower on the "practical" scale.
My only issue with the Box R is that it's so big and bulky looking. I really do not like the way it looks. I think the carb style EFI intakes look much cleaner. I know some of the 1994-1998 Saleens with the 351's used stock hoods. I think they used 1984 Fox motor mounts, and slotted the K-member, but I'm not 100% certain. However I already have a 2 1/2 inch cowl hood, so hopefully I can clear most intakes. I'd hate to have to go even bigger on hood size.


Any blower setup will get you there.
Honestly I could just build a 363 short block, do a little work to my current heads/intake on my 331, and then slap on a supercharger to reach my goals of 600 horsepower, maybe even more. But that's what people expect to see when you say you've got 600 or more horsepower in a Mustang. My stock block 331 has forged rods, and pistons so I could technically slap on a low boost supercharger as it is.

I just want an N/A 600+ horsepower 427 in my car, and I want 427 emblems on the side. I just want to knock it off the bucket list before electric cars take over completely, or worse...
 

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Here's an LS engine, with an extremely tall, large runner intake and the 4500 throttle body.



More hood clearance than an elbow combination. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Here's an LS engine, with an extremely tall, large runner intake and the 4500 throttle body.

More hood clearance than an elbow combination. :cool:
That's almost a perfect fit! And you can actually see the valve covers verses a plenum set up.

how about an SV1 carb from pro systems?
I looked into the SV1, it seems to be an awesome carb. However, I'm not sure if it will be as good as a self tuning EFI system. I'd need more input on that, because I don't know much about the SV1.
 

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The newer Holley High Ram should certainly get you there. Fairly reasonable price wise with multiple hat options for where you want the TB.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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I was speaking with Lee Beard, a long time ago, and I asked him in general terms what it was that made him worth the dough he made as crew chief (for Ormsby, back then). He told me, and listen closely here; "Well Mark. Whatever the engine wants....I give it to it."

A great piece of wisdom you'll never likely get

Your engine wants air. Give it air.
 

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Hate to rain on your parade

self tuning systems do NOT exist

dont be fooled by marketing
Yes and no. The Holley uses a wideband to give instantaneous adjustments to fueling to meet the desired AFR at any given throttle position. The system will also "learn" the adjustment so next time around you'll be in the ballpark without the delays associated with adjusting AFR on the fly. Now the key to this is using one of their base tunes that's close to what you need, and obviously putting in the correct info for injectors and sensors etc. This will let you start and drive the car without a ton of knowledge of how the system works. I can confirm that the 1st start of my 427W when I switched from TwEECer to Holley HP was not a major issue and I could start and drive the car immediately.

Now, to get a high-performance engine with a decent cam to run well at the corners takes some learning time and one cannot rely on the self-tuning to fix the issues. In fact, the self-tuning can and will thwart efforts to deal with light-load low RPM tip-ins (as an example) with a larger cam. Even Holley recommends turning off or limiting closed loop and/or learning after you have the tune nailed down. WOT can be dangerous too if your fuel table isn't dialed in, so don't go gunning any engine until you have some idea how far off you are - ease into it and adjust the fuel table after each pull.

So, YES - a close base tune and learning can get you going quickly. NO, you won't be going to the dragstrip before monkeying with the tune for a minimum of a month or so if you're a beginner.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I was speaking with Lee Beard, a long time ago, and I asked him in general terms what it was that made him worth the dough he made as crew chief (for Ormsby, back then). He told me, and listen closely here; "Well Mark. Whatever the engine wants....I give it to it."

A great piece of wisdom you'll never likely get

Your engine wants air. Give it air.

Nice! When I do this, I plan on taking the car to a dyno shop to get everything properly tuned. I will try to get everything running as good as possible before I take it there. When I did my 331 I just installed the engine, and got every thing in a working condition. I never once drove it since it was using the stock computer. I put the car on a flat bed and hauled it to the dyno shop. I assume that with a holley computer, I'd actually need to drive the car so it can somewhat tune itself.

Initially I was wanting to go with an aluminum block, but after thinking things through I decided the weight really doesn't matter, and I should instead invest the money in a proper top end.
 

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we had one that rocked... there are others out there too... gary williams is local to me and he's always done wonders with carbs..
everyone i know who has tried one has it sitting on the shelf or a trashcan now... i personally dont know a single person that we race with who is still running a prosystems carb.
 
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