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Discussion Starter #1
I'm selling the last of my sn95 cobras and taking a breather before getting another go-fast car. So I'm in the daydream stages.

1. I don't want any fru-fru infiniti sedan that's fast and luxurious. That's just wrong. I don't want to know what performance parts exist for these things. I do like the sleeper aspect though.

2. Shelby 350. I don't like the mass, but IRS and electronic suite will add weight. The styling is beautiful, but the market wants bigger cars and 18 inch wheels, all of which reduces performance. One spends for the 600 hp motor, which is then counteracted by hundreds of pounds of the (awesome looking) sheet metal and oversized wheels. Also, I don't like oil changes, smog checks, or visiting the gas station. I don't like idling away that gas at a red light or in traffic.

3. Tesla 3 performance. The stats I looked up says a 3perf will beat a gt350 in the quarter. :eeek:
Likes: charging at home, 3 years access to the commuter lanes, one can hear the radio while the car is on, very very good handling, and performance that's somewhere close to the gt350. Plus, take that, OPEC.
Dislikes: appearance induces yawns.

Plus, Tesla's Big Dog is the $100k S 100D, but some hacker recently put 17 inch wheels (versus the 19" stockers) on a 3perf and claimed title as the quickest Tesla. I think he was in the 10s. He did some computer hacking too. My point is that I'd be interested in what's involved with hot rodding a Tesla.
 

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I like the Tesla cars but not sure if they are as reliable as they need to be for the long term. I think they'll get there but right now I'd be afraid the car will be under maintenance most of the time.

It sounds like you are wanting more of a performance/handling vehicle but if a bit of luxury is appealing I love the Caddy CTS-V but I'd pump up the HP some more. This would be my dream car if I could afford one.

ks
 

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You clearly are drawn to an electric car (nothing wrong with that). You've had several posts leading that way. I suspect you won't be really happy till you have one. Can you lease a Tesla for a couple years? see if you really like it long term? Then buy the latest greatest at the end if Tesla is still around.

I think they will fold in a few years, or get bought. Burning cash and churning high level employees.

News and websites keep saying the electric cars time has come. Yet I don't know anyone that's bought on. On my daily commute, I see at most 2or 3 of them and usually not even them. They are the same cars. One Model 3, one P100 and one model X (?...the SUV). I see a leaf or two and a couple Volts. They make up a minuscule percentage of the cars on the road. They are still niche cars. Early adopters and niche buyers are about all satisfied. Sales are tapering off from what I read.

Electric can't pull my camper 500 or more miles. Nothing big enough to even look at yet. Even if there was, current recharge times are non-starters for me. Maybe as a daily commuter they make sense. But my current commuter cost me just $7000 and only had 67K on it. At my current rate It'll take me at least 7 years to get to 150K. And for four of those years I won't have a car payment. Just maintenance. Pretty hard to financially justify the buy in for a Model 3 at $40 large. Never mind the halving of range come NY winter.

That said, I'd love to have one to drive. I think it would be fun an interesting to experience. I am not sold on the supposed enviro benefits. The bad stuff is just moved to different places. Looks like a shell game to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I have an e-Golf and love the dang thing.

The thing is a blast to drive and has several unexpected benefits:
1. I couldn't care less when a stoplight is fouled up or when traffic is crawling since I get better economy in stop and go traffic.
2. It has been so long since I've been to a gas station that I hate the idea of buying a gas car.
3. On freeway onramps it would take a pro driver in a rwd car to keep up with me. FWD gas cars will not keep up.

For whatever reason, a lot of people in San Diego have Teslas, Leafs (yuck), Bolts, Volts, Dolts, and other e-cars. They're here to stay.

Problems:
1. Hotrodding an e-golf is uncharted territory. An e-golf tech-board consists of questions like "My charging app doesn't work". Furthermore, pretty much everything goes through the CAN bus which VW claims may not be reverse engineered or even studied.
2. Why even bother hotrodding an e-golf? Anything short of putting an extra motor+transaxle in the trunk is worthless, and the time and money spent on a twin motor, well, just buy a [email protected] Tesla, right?
3. No spare tire, but a place for one in the trunk. Run-flats at all four corners. I'm going to get a spare tire before I have to replace the tires. No way am I spending the $$$ for run-flats.

Range is a concern, but not a problem. I live close enough so that I just blast around as quick as I want up to the speed limit.

Leasing an electric or hybrid vehicle means that all federal subsidies, about $8k, goes to the manufacturer. I'd rather have that in my pocket. The monthlies are much greater when buying, but then one has the equity, so I guess Lease vs Buy gets down to whether you want to keep the car. My last two cars were a 95 and a 98, which I sold this year. :) When I get a performance electric car, I will keep it and be buried in it.

I highly recommend that you try an electric car. Their overall economy is going to be a little better than a Prius (factoring in no costs for oil changes or smog checks) and if your local utility gives you a rebate, then an electric car will be significantly more economical than a Prius.


I'm also eagerly awaiting the upcoming electric Mustang that Ford announced. Oh please let it be awd.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
And let it be this one. At my age, I have trouble getting in and out of a Mustang.
What's the story with that pic? Concept vehicle? Disguised next gen Escape? That would make a great AWD electric vehicle due to all the room for batteries.

Build it, Ford, and I will buy it.
 

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Shortly electric vehicle owners are going to be hit with a $2-3K plus tax bill every year. Since they don't consume gas or diesel they don't pay any State or Federal fuel taxes that are used to maintain the roads these vehicles use. If they are going to be on the road, they have to pay their fair share of road taxes to maintain them. Once that happens, we will see how popular electric vehicles really are.
 

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Shortly electric vehicle owners are going to be hit with a $2-3K plus tax bill every year. Since they don't consume gas or diesel they don't pay any State or Federal fuel taxes that are used to maintain the roads these vehicles use. If they are going to be on the road, they have to pay their fair share of road taxes to maintain them. Once that happens, we will see how popular electric vehicles really are.
I've been saying for several years now that electric cars should pay a tax equal to the average fuel taxes per mile. I drive, on average, 44 miles per day over the last 5-6 years. My vehicle gets about 25 mpg. I pay roughly $0.45/gallon in State and Federal fuel taxes (NY). In a year I drive roughly 16,000 miles. Over the course of those miles for the year, I pay a tax of roughly $288. That's $0.018/mile in NY when getting roughly 25 mpg. We have yearly inspections and mileage is recorded as part of it. You passed your inspection, here's your tax bill for the year.

Mr. Electric driver, his choice and I'm don't care what he/she wants to drive, does not carry his/her share of the road tax burden. So all the ICE driving people subsidy Mr. Electric drivers road use. On top of that, Mr. Electric driver gets State a Federal tax breaks for buying the electric car. And again other people subsidy Mr. Electric drivers car choice. On top of, on top of that Mr. Electric driver has the means to buy an expensive electric car, because dollar for dollar the electric cars cost notably more.

So here's the cliff notes and what rubs me the wrong way. The guy/gal with the means to buy the electric car, pay the road tax and not need the State and Federal tax breaks, uses those and the rest of the people carry the burden. The buyer best able to pay for the electric car gets the best tax breaks. The tax breaks should only be for individuals that earn less than $100K per year or some other threshold. That way the people that would most benefit from the technology and tax breaks would have the access to them.

If I get a more fuel efficient car or drive less, I pay less taxes. It's really the fairest way of applying taxes. The more you use or less efficient your vehicle is, the more your tax burden is. The less you use or more efficient you vehicle, the less your tax burden. If you want a car/truck that gets 12 mpg and can afford it, awesome. Don't complain about that taxes. But to have the roads we all drive on exist and be in decent condition there is a basic level of tax that has to exist and we all have to have skin in the game. Electric driver's don't have, or have enough, skin in the game right now and that needs to change.
 

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Fed and State fuel tax in Commifornication is 55 cents per gal.
States like Washington are throwing around the idea of putting a GPS tracker on every vehicle so they can tax you for every mile driven, which would be above and beyond what is already payed at the pump in fuel tax. They claim that they want to make this "per mile tax" an adjustable one, so they can tax you at a higher rate when the roads are the most congested, and less when traffic is light. Needless to say, there is some blowback about privacy concerns, what with the Government knowing when you drive, where you drive and how far you drive. They say that as far as privacy goes, you do not have to have a GPS device on your car, but you have to pay by the number of miles on the Odometer at year end, even if you travel out of the State. Of course, if you have the GPS device in the car, then miles driven out of the State are not counted. I see this being tied up in court for a bit as yet another attack on our civil liberties is addressed.
 

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I've been saying for several years now that electric cars should pay a tax equal to the average fuel taxes per mile. I drive, on average, 44 miles per day over the last 5-6 years. My vehicle gets about 25 mpg. I pay roughly $0.45/gallon in State and Federal fuel taxes (NY). In a year I drive roughly 16,000 miles. Over the course of those miles for the year, I pay a tax of roughly $288. That's $0.018/mile in NY when getting roughly 25 mpg. We have yearly inspections and mileage is recorded as part of it. You passed your inspection, here's your tax bill for the year.

Mr. Electric driver, his choice and I'm don't care what he/she wants to drive, does not carry his/her share of the road tax burden. So all the ICE driving people subsidy Mr. Electric drivers road use. On top of that, Mr. Electric driver gets State a Federal tax breaks for buying the electric car. And again other people subsidy Mr. Electric drivers car choice. On top of, on top of that Mr. Electric driver has the means to buy an expensive electric car, because dollar for dollar the electric cars cost notably more.

So here's the cliff notes and what rubs me the wrong way. The guy/gal with the means to buy the electric car, pay the road tax and not need the State and Federal tax breaks, uses those and the rest of the people carry the burden. The buyer best able to pay for the electric car gets the best tax breaks. The tax breaks should only be for individuals that earn less than $100K per year or some other threshold. That way the people that would most benefit from the technology and tax breaks would have the access to them.

If I get a more fuel efficient car or drive less, I pay less taxes. It's really the fairest way of applying taxes. The more you use or less efficient your vehicle is, the more your tax burden is. The less you use or more efficient you vehicle, the less your tax burden. If you want a car/truck that gets 12 mpg and can afford it, awesome. Don't complain about that taxes. But to have the roads we all drive on exist and be in decent condition there is a basic level of tax that has to exist and we all have to have skin in the game. Electric driver's don't have, or have enough, skin in the game right now and that needs to change.
Instead of worrying about what other people drive and what they pay, you should be asking if it really costs $.45 per gallon of gas to maintain the roads.
 

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Instead of worrying about what other people drive and what they pay, you should be asking if it really costs $.45 per gallon of gas to maintain the roads.
were all old enough to know nothing will decrease in cost, regardless if it takes .45 cents or not. So the answer is always the same, pay more and the electric people definitely should be paying. I am always told taxes are the price for a civilized society.
 

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were all old enough to know nothing will decrease in cost, regardless if it takes .45 cents or not. So the answer is always the same, pay more and the electric people definitely should be paying. I am always told taxes are the price for a civilized society.
We had a civilized society long before we paid 20% or more to governments. The complacency with taxes is what got us here. I vote no on every increase in taxes, no matter the reason but sending the idiots tens of thousands a year will do that to you. In Texas the politicians have taken part of the gas tax to fund other projects. They keep talking about trying to raise it and the response is that they don't even spend what they get on the roads so why do they need more?
 

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You can wage war against taxes increases till your dead and it wont do anything. They are going to tax. Now they may call it something else and divert the funds but the truth remains. We all have learned this, whether folks want to bury their head or not is irrelevant. Maybe your roads are newer but time is coming as your population increases. There will never be enough tax income, EVER. We just doubled our gas tax from 19 cents to 38 cents, but we also have snow and ice and plow trucks that destroy the roads, but the facts and history remain the same.
 

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My issue is not the taxes. My issue is Mr. Electric driver not paying the same amount in taxes to use the lane next to me as I am paying. I am only asking that all drivers pay the same tax on the same measurement scale. Gas, diesel, electric, steam, dilithium crystals, I don't care. Pay your share.
 

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You can wage war against taxes increases till your dead and it wont do anything. They are going to tax. Now they may call it something else and divert the funds but the truth remains. We all have learned this, whether folks want to bury their head or not is irrelevant. Maybe your roads are newer but time is coming as your population increases. There will never be enough tax income, EVER. We just doubled our gas tax from 19 cents to 38 cents, but we also have snow and ice and plow trucks that destroy the roads, but the facts and history remain the same.
I can see why you have that attitude in Illinois. In Texas we have a constitutional prohibition against a state income tax. This fall we are going to have a measure on the ballot to make it all but impossible to ever have a state income tax. We just passed a restriction on the rate of increase in property taxes and the local governments squealed and squealed about it.

There is a reason why people leave your state all the time and come to mine and it isn't because they like the 100 degree summers. Pack up the shop and come on down, we race almost year round down here and that is more local customers blowing up engines and needing new ones.
 

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My issue is not the taxes. My issue is Mr. Electric driver not paying the same amount in taxes to use the lane next to me as I am paying. I am only asking that all drivers pay the same tax on the same measurement scale. Gas, diesel, electric, steam, dilithium crystals, I don't care. Pay your share.
absolutely
 

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You may not have an income taxes, but it costs money to have services, roads, etc... Those taxes will come from another tax source. Gov't can not run on no money. Just like your household. you need money to pay bills, fix things, add things. If you think pulling tax revenue sources away from the gov't will accomplish anything, you can keep your head in the sand.

If gov't taxes A to pay for service B and the population says you can't tax A. The gov't will say ok, we'll just tax Q & F to make up the lost revenue to provide service B.
 

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I can see why you have that attitude in Illinois. In Texas we have a constitutional prohibition against a state income tax. This fall we are going to have a measure on the ballot to make it all but impossible to ever have a state income tax. We just passed a restriction on the rate of increase in property taxes and the local governments squealed and squealed about it.

There is a reason why people leave your state all the time and come to mine and it isn't because they like the 100 degree summers. Pack up the shop and come on down, we race almost year round down here and that is more local customers blowing up engines and needing new ones.
There is no way texas can hold off additional taxes with its increase in population if it continues, especially if the economy slows, history says this. It will come in some form or another. The name is irrelevant. Im a midwest guy, I need 4 seasons and snow
 

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You may not have an income taxes, but it costs money to have services, roads, etc... Those taxes will come from another tax source. Gov't can not run on no money. Just like your household. you need money to pay bills, fix things, add things. If you think pulling tax revenue sources away from the gov't will accomplish anything, you can keep your head in the sand.

If gov't taxes A to pay for service B and the population says you can't tax A. The gov't will say ok, we'll just tax Q & F to make up the lost revenue to provide service B.
No one said anything about government working with no money. There is a mile of difference between "No money" and making government operate on a restricted budget.

Find the principal of a school and ask them about government waste. Or a city service worker. Waste is what the government is good at and the only way you control it is to not give the government more money to waste. Literally every dollar you send them in excess of what they need will be wasted. In Texas we have a record run up in property values and property taxes. School budgets are through the roof because of this. Expenditures per student are up 50% in the last five years yet they are still "underfunded". At the same time every student in elementary school gets an Ipad to use. I understand it makes learning easier but is an Ipad absolutely necessary? I doubt it.

If giving the government more money was the key to getting good services, roads or schools then New Jersey would be an absolute paradise.
 
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