Ford Mustang Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am heavily considering a V3 Si tuner kit (with Heritage series gears) while prices are good over the holidays. However, I am wondering if I should even consider a V1 Ti tuner kit?
I have a stock bottom end 302 with TW 170 heads, Lunati 20350711 cam (221/229 @ .050 .540+ lift), TMOSS ported GT40 intake setup, 70 mm TB. 3550 5 speed, 3.55 gears.
I may consider an upgrade to 347/363 (Dart block based) or even a 351w at some point, but could be a couple of years, maybe never if the SC and 302 keeps me happy. This is a 100% street driven 1990 Foxbody convertible, maybe 1000 miles per year.
Surely, a larger engine would be served better with the Ti trim, but until then or if I end up staying 302/306, which would be more efficient in the 8 to 10 psi (maybe 12 psi) area? I realize a Dart based motor could take a lot more, but then there goes the drivetrain upgrades. 12 PSI via a Si trim on a 363 would be some serious power (to me anyway). When would the lack of efficiency on the Si and heat start to become an issue?
Would the Si be better on a 302 in the lower PSI and rpm ranges? 5800 to 6000 RPM would be my limit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Depends on your hp goals? I have a 363 currently and just sold my v3si. The v3si would take me to about 600-650whp but I'm going with a v1Ti trim with the goal of 700+whp hopefully. My car is also a full weight fox convertible. The v3si is a great little blower so you can't go wrong with either one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Do you have an idea of what you are looking for power?

I had a similar goal as you and made 500hp on a stock block turning it down to keep the block together at 14psi. I then upgraded to the Ti trim on a dart 347 and I'm making over 700hp at 21psi with more left in the blower. Spinning to 6000 RPM like you.

If you want 600-700hp, the Si is more than enough for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Do you have an idea of what you are looking for power?

I had a similar goal as you and made 500hp on a stock block turning it down to keep the block together at 14psi. I then upgraded to the Ti trim on a dart 347 and I'm making over 700hp at 21psi with more left in the blower. Spinning to 6000 RPM like you.

If you want 600-700hp, the Si is more than enough for you.
600 to 700 HP would be plenty enough (at least I say that now). Then it will be the typical debate of 363 vs 357w when I decide to upgrade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
My 2 cents is that a 302 based car will be easy enough to make that power reliably and with a 363 stroker unless you want huge power. Stay with the 347-363. My car has more than enough torque on the street it is a blast
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
I have a V3 SI on my 408. Afr 185 heads afm b31. Dynoed 410 na, 587 with 12psi. Running 6.87 crank and 3.0 blower. Stopped Dyno at 6000. 400+lbs at 2500rpm. Very happy with the V3 SI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
From everything I read the Si makes more power until you get to high RPM, where the Ti then starts to push more air. This means your combo will have to be setup for higher RPM to make use of the Ti blower. To me it seems that the Ti is really only beneficial if you're wanting to hit that 700+hp goal, and have the motor to handle it. Otherwise, the Si is better if you're fine with 600hp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,264 Posts
I have a V3 SI on my 408. Afr 185 heads afm b31. Dynoed 410 na, 587 with 12psi. Running 6.87 crank and 3.0 blower. Stopped Dyno at 6000. 400+lbs at 2500rpm. Very happy with the V3 SI
I have a V1 Si (3.45 step up ratio), 347, 7" crank, 3" blower. Same B31 cam. I make about 12psi @6000 rpm at my elevation. 550rwhp, but you DESTROY me on torque. I don't hit 400ft-lb until 3100 and peak out at 513tq. How do you like B31 with bigger cubes? I'm thinking about keeping it when I move to a Dart 363 or moving to the B31HR. I think according to Vortech's calculator I'm getting close to maxing out RPM. But I'm going to stick with the Si because I'm fine in the 550-600 range for what I do with the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
I think besides the power each one will give is what accessories come with each kit. Look at the options you have with each kit as value such as my dealer was able to sell me basically a ysi kit except with the ti for just a few hundred over the si kit. Basically he built me a kit like anderson sells with the mondo valve, dual plate, 10 rib pulleys. I still purchased the anderson powerpipe and bypass and all this he was able to deliver slightly cheaper than the anderson kit. These are things that you would likely purchase later or wished you had that make daily running and your blower even more efficient with easier breathing, no belt slip, plate doesn't flex and tightening belt much easier. All this on top of unit with heavier duty bearings to take more abuse and not to mention more rpm capable for when you stretch it's legs later with more rpm on with a fresh build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
I think besides the power each one will give is what accessories come with each kit. Look at the options you have with each kit as value such as my dealer was able to sell me basically a ysi kit except with the ti for just a few hundred over the si kit. Basically he built me a kit like anderson sells with the mondo valve, dual plate, 10 rib pulleys. I still purchased the anderson powerpipe and bypass and all this he was able to deliver slightly cheaper than the anderson kit. These are things that you would likely purchase later or wished you had that make daily running and your blower even more efficient with easier breathing, no belt slip, plate doesn't flex and tightening belt much easier. All this on top of unit with heavier duty bearings to take more abuse and not to mention more rpm capable for when you stretch it's legs later with more rpm on with a fresh build.
Those are interesting notes. Thanks for sharing. Is your combo running now? How do you like it and what if any challenges are you still fighting with it?

I can definitely appreciate the Ti trim being a bigger blower and possibly having to be spun less hard to push the same amount of air, which maybe extends it's longevity?! This is pure speculation on my part, but it sort of makes sense, at least in theory.

Another theoretical benefit of the Ti I see for a street car is that maybe it helps with traction on the street, since it makes the big power later in the RPM?

If I went this route, I think I would want the v2 Ti, as i am not particularly a fan of the loud noise the v1s make, but that blower is a good bit more money if I remember right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
still building as i'm reworking fuel system converting from external pump to cobra tank with multiple pumps and lines for e85 and going to switch from pms to holley efi. I tried to find same kit on anderson site however I see now that it does not mention dual plate so not sure if they are changing things or not there. My dealer just ordered a ysi kit 4FA218-100 and substituted the ti for a credit so it was simple for him and vortech to price instead of adding all the upgrades which could have been more expensive ordered that way. The ysi I want to say was a $1100 difference. Only thing might have done different was 8 rib instead of 10 rib as is likely overkill with that nice dual plate tensioner. Unfortunately you will not find many ti articles out there as many just jump from si to ysi...something I felt I didn't need for a mainly street car and possibly regret at some point later but that will be several years down the road
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
just as a heads for what this value is i'm talking about and just quickly checking vortech list price
4FA111-101 dual pside mounting bracket $678.99
4FA-116-051 10 rib 8" renegade crank pulley $349.99
4FA212-050 discharge tube with mondo bypass valve $598.99 (you can sell the discharge tube if you have afm bypass kit)
4FA112-070 air inlet assembly $81.99 (again you can sell this or if you prefer use these items and hold off on afm bypass kit)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
I have a V1 Si (3.45 step up ratio), 347, 7" crank, 3" blower. Same B31 cam. I make about 12psi @6000 rpm at my elevation. 550rwhp, but you DESTROY me on torque. I don't hit 400ft-lb until 3100 and peak out at 513tq. How do you like B31 with bigger cubes? I'm thinking about keeping it when I move to a Dart 363 or moving to the B31HR. I think according to Vortech's calculator I'm getting close to maxing out RPM. But I'm going to stick with the Si because I'm fine in the 550-600 range for what I do with the car.
[/QUOTE

I used the b31 because I had it left over from another build. I really couldn't be happier with it. Idles about 850rpm. Street manners, you'd think you were in a stock 5.0. throttle response is crisp and it has a great exhaust note. It's a street car with ac and a booster seat for my daughter. Torque is more important to me. I think I peak torque around 5000 I'd have to double check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
I was at 420trq at 2700. 540 trq at 4000. Peaked trq of 574 at 5300.

Compression of the engine is 8.75:1

Im going to use the b21 cam next engine because it has the same specs as the b31 but is made for 1.7 rockers. I have the rockers on the shelf. The next engine will be a fully forged 325.

My friend runs the b31 in his 363. Idles great around 950. Afr 185 with a Holley systamax, shorty headers. Also running a Ti with meth and 18#s. 670 to the tire.

Small parts.....lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,264 Posts
Sounds awesome. I have mine idling at 750. Has a nice lope that you can hear in the Vortech gears. Yea, the street manors are fantastic and why I love the cam so much. I had an E303 before and it was complete TRASH. We are similar on compression as well. I'm 8.7. Great job on the torque.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,551 Posts
A Si Trim is good till around 700 rwhp depending on many factors. My friend Travis's 89 Saleen that was in the December 19 MM+FF mag has a 337ci stroker with a Si and made 691rwhp.
Even a normal old school S trim can make a lot of steam. I had a normal S on my 357ci Windsor back around 2004. While I didnt ever dyno it,it did run 136.8 mph in the 1/4 mile.(ran 120-121 mph n/a)

Bottom line....a Si would be better on your current setup without a doubt over a Ti. It would even be fine on a 331-363 long at 650-700 rwhp max is good for your future wanting. If you can get a killer deal on a Ti...sure go for it. Just know it'll make a little less than a Si till the higher rpms (5K plus I'd say) on your current engine.
It's worth it as mentioned to get the better dual plate renegade brackets and the larger 8" crank pulley. Being able to have a setup that does't flex as much as the thin single plate setup helps a lot. Having the large 8" crank allows you to run a larger pulley on the blower(and keep the blower speed up enough to make the desired boost level) to have better belt wrap as well. Power pipe is of course a must.

For what its worth I've used Vortech blowers since 2003 and have had S,SQ,SCi,T,YS,YSi and X trims.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
A Si Trim is good till around 700 rwhp depending on many factors. My friend Travis's 89 Saleen that was in the December 19 MM+FF mag has a 337ci stroker with a Si and made 691rwhp.
Even a normal old school S trim can make a lot of steam. I had a normal S on my 357ci Windsor back around 2004. While I didnt ever dyno it,it did run 136.8 mph in the 1/4 mile.(ran 120-121 mph n/a)

Bottom line....a Si would be better on your current setup without a doubt over a Ti. It would even be fine on a 331-363 long at 650-700 rwhp max is good for your future wanting. If you can get a killer deal on a Ti...sure go for it. Just know it'll make a little less than a Si till the higher rpms (5K plus I'd say) on your current engine.
It's worth it as mentioned to get the better dual plate renegade brackets and the larger 8" crank pulley. Being able to have a setup that does't flex as much as the thin single plate setup helps a lot. Having the large 8" crank allows you to run a larger pulley on the blower(and keep the blower speed up enough to make the desired boost level) to have better belt wrap as well. Power pipe is of course a must.

For what its worth I've used Vortech blowers since 2003 and have had S,SQ,SCi,T,YS,YSi and X trims.
Thanks for the input! I did end up going with a V3si with the Heritage series gears for that old school sound. I have a power pipe and do plan to eventually go with a 8" crank pulley, especially if I go 351w or 363. Very much looking forward to getting it installed either sometime this winter or in the spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Congrats on the purchase! Not a lot of Windsors with the gear whine of the heritage edition around still. It's a great setup and more unique than the new Coyote setups everywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Congrats on the purchase! Not a lot of Windsors with the gear whine of the heritage edition around still. It's a great setup and more unique than the new Coyote setups everywhere.
At an event earlier in the year, I heard a fox approaching that had that S/C whine while camming through a parking lot. I was in love.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top