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hi guys.... i have a built Teksid motor.My 2 valve heads have oversized stainess valves, Fox Lake Stage II Porting. Comp Stage II Blower cams. I am curently maxing out my V2 T Trim H.D (V2 still whines nicely) anyways.... I am making 659whp with 8 rib vortech upgrade kit, a 2.95 blower pulley and a 10% Innovators West Overdrive Crank pully and a THUMP RRR Tensioner. i may be selling and heading a different route. anyone interested ? any suggestions ?

my goals are to NOT overspin my T Trim.... it is a 95% street clean car. My goals are to stay somewhat simple and head north of 750whp my Teksid block is built to support 1000 so after many years I am finally interested in mildly cranking it up anywhere from 750 to 850. I hear Turbo is a great idea .... however i have so much invested in this vortech 8 rib kit the Innovators west Overdrive pully and the Thump tensioner.... should I go Ysi or Procharger and keep it a simple and just do head unit upgrade ? Then could just sell my T Trim HD RACE head unit. I could sell everything off and go Turbo but that sounds complicated for me but cheeper??? I hear procharger will spool quicker than a Ysi ?

any help? thanks in advance guys
 

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Blowers don't "spool" - centrifugal blowers in particular make boost relative to rpm. And if you spin a small blower up faster, it will make more boost (and power) sooner, but be hp limited on the big end of the tach. Turbos on the other hand will make more power and be easier on the engine. BUT - they really aren't much cheaper, if at all; by the time you add in the ancillary parts you'll need the costs tend to be a wash. They also don't do well racing - at least not in the real world, around 1,500 hp and under. If I'm racing a turbo car at the track, it's easy enough to play games at the tree to throw most turbo guys off - the staging procedure is relatively finicky; where as I can stage and launch pretty much instantly (I see 13.5 psi the instant I'm on the brake - literally instantly).

In my opinion - if you want to put up a big number occasionally, go for the turbo; if you want to win races, go with a blower. Ask a turbo guy to post 6 slips from one day at a track - in most cases reaction times will be all over the place.
 

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Procharger has many f1's to choose from. They cover a wide boost to rpm ratio. Your cams will most likely need replaced if you go turbo. The cams you have may limit power at certain rpm so a blower that builds boost up high in the rpm range may not be what you want. A blower that builds more boost down low may not get the HP you want. However it may out run a higher revving motor. Combination is everything. Call A camshaft builder and see what he say's. Or your head guy.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
great advice on the cam shaft. I don't know a lot about turbos other than a few of my buddies have now made near the 1000whp range and the turbo is easier on the motor. y car is just a daily driver with some fun track time on occasion. i think having the Vortech 8 rib up grade kit, the Innovators west O.D crank pulley and the thump tensioner ... I have some good money in my current set up i may just sell my head unit and go to a larger procharger. my goals aren't far off from where am atm. i really dont want to change out my cams, but wywindsor you've made a great point in regards to the cams.
 

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Blowers don't "spool" - centrifugal blowers in particular make boost relative to rpm. And if you spin a small blower up faster, it will make more boost (and power) sooner, but be hp limited on the big end of the tach. Turbos on the other hand will make more power and be easier on the engine. BUT - they really aren't much cheaper, if at all; by the time you add in the ancillary parts you'll need the costs tend to be a wash. They also don't do well racing - at least not in the real world, around 1,500 hp and under. If I'm racing a turbo car at the track, it's easy enough to play games at the tree to throw most turbo guys off - the staging procedure is relatively finicky; where as I can stage and launch pretty much instantly (I see 13.5 psi the instant I'm on the brake - literally instantly).

In my opinion - if you want to put up a big number occasionally, go for the turbo; if you want to win races, go with a blower. Ask a turbo guy to post 6 slips from one day at a track - in most cases reaction times will be all over the place.
One part is a lot cheaper on the turbo side, and that's boost changes.
Just a touch of a boost control, screw on a restrictor valve or whatever you have on your turbo that controls the wastegate opening pressure.
For a supercharger of any sort it's changing pulley which can also mean changing belt.
But it's not something you do day to day, so if you hit what you want once, it's far from a dealbreaker.

As OP already has a Vortech on the car I would suggest go with a bigger Vortech that (maybe? I don't know Vortech) fits the same brackets.
By far the simplest way of doing it, and cheapest.

Turbos make power. They make big power. But they don't make linear power like a centrifugal, unless you've put a few millions into R&D ofcourse.
If you want great power, obviously Turbo.
But in your case I would stick with Vortech, even though I'm a Procharger guy ;)
 

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One part is a lot cheaper on the turbo side, and that's boost changes.
Just a touch of a boost control, screw on a restrictor valve or whatever you have on your turbo that controls the wastegate opening pressure.
For a supercharger of any sort it's changing pulley which can also mean changing belt.
But it's not something you do day to day, so if you hit what you want once, it's far from a dealbreaker.

As OP already has a Vortech on the car I would suggest go with a bigger Vortech that (maybe? I don't know Vortech) fits the same brackets.
By far the simplest way of doing it, and cheapest.

Turbos make power. They make big power. But they don't make linear power like a centrifugal, unless you've put a few millions into R&D ofcourse.
If you want great power, obviously Turbo.
But in your case I would stick with Vortech, even though I'm a Procharger guy ;)
I run a Kenne Bell twin screw and I can change boost levels without changing any pullies. I also use a boost controller. They are not exclusive to Turbo's.
 

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I run a Kenne Bell twin screw and I can change boost levels without changing any pullies. I also use a boost controller. They are not exclusive to Turbo's.
Ofcourse, it's not impossible.
But don't you get higher IAT's by bleeding off compressed air?
 

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It is not hard either. Do not see how it raises IAT. It gets bled off to atmosphere. And even if the IAT went up, it would go up no mare than any turbo bleeding off the same amount of boost. Add to the fact I run an air/water I/C it is not any issue either way.
 

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The wg bleeds off exhaust going into the turbo limiting boost, not bleeding off boost directly. The turbo only spins what it needs to unlike bleeding off actual boost when using a supercharger. It takes more hp to turn a supercharger bleeding off boost because it is spinning more.

I ran a vortech for many years and thought about spinning it harder to get more low end and bleed it off up top to limit the boost. Never did it.
 

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It takes more hp to turn a supercharger bleeding off boost because it is spinning more.
A S/C rpm is based on pulley ratio, and is going to spin the same rpm weather boost is being bled off or not.
 

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Sorry, I thought you were spinning the blower harder and bleeding it off. Also forgot you weren't running a centrifical. No need to do that with your blower.
 

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It is not hard either. Do not see how it raises IAT. It gets bled off to atmosphere. And even if the IAT went up, it would go up no mare than any turbo bleeding off the same amount of boost. Add to the fact I run an air/water I/C it is not any issue either way.
As Stangjumper said, on a turbo you aren't bleeding off boost, you're bleeding off the turbine side using the wastegate.

But why are you doing it that way? Especially on a twin screw with very limited space for a heat exchanger, which in turn gets a bit ineffective due to its size.
Seems quite ineffective in my honest opinion. By a percentage, how much are you bleeding off?


This is just a random picture from a quick google search, it's just an example and representation.
If you're pullied for lets say 14psi according to this chart then you top out at 300F (pre heatexchanger), while 8psi = 220F.
If you're bleeding off 6psi then you're at 8psi but still running 300F (pre heatexchanger) instead of 220F as you would've if you would've been pullied for 8psi.


Obviously it's not a matter of life and death, but we all strive for making horsepower and efficiency = horsepower.
 

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You have to compress the air to build heat. If the air is being bled off, then it is not being compressed, therefore you are not building the heat. If the blower can make 14 psi, but I relieve the pressure from building up so the S/C only makes 8 psi, then the temp of the air is only 220* as per that chart. I can not generate 300* of air temp if the S/C is only making 8 psi.

To answer the question of percentage of boost being dumped, at launch it is about 50%. Around 1.2 seconds into the run the S/C is making 21 psi based on the closing ramp rate of the boost controller which is adjustable in one tenth of a second increments.
 

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I would not say that the I/C is ineffective for its size. I start my run with IAT in the 70* range and finish the run with IAT in the 90* range. At 21 psi (after I/C) and making 1,250 crank HP, I do not think the I/C is holding me back.
 

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You have to compress the air to build heat. If the air is being bled off, then it is not being compressed, therefore you are not building the heat. If the blower can make 14 psi, but I relieve the pressure from building up so the S/C only makes 8 psi, then the temp of the air is only 220* as per that chart. I can not generate 300* of air temp if the S/C is only making 8 psi.

To answer the question of percentage of boost being dumped, at launch it is about 50%. Around 1.2 seconds into the run the S/C is making 21 psi based on the closing ramp rate of the boost controller which is adjustable in one tenth of a second increments.
Interesting... You have a valid point there.
It's being bled off once the pressure reaches 8psi hence it will not be compressed any further.
I'd like to see some tests on this! Meanwhile I'm way too lazy to perform them myself...

Progressive boost on a supercharger setup, you have really put a lot of thought into this I see!
 

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Yes, with a PD blower I have to bleed off boost to keep from blowing off the tires on the launch. 21 psi on the hit on a small tire does not work well. Before the boost controller was installed I had to retard timing on the hit to kill power. That just made the engine very lazy and it did not want to rpm at all and it is hard on the engine to have only 10* of timing at 21 psi and WOT. Now I have the right timing in the engine and just limit boost application. Engine is much happier. I suppose I could data log all of this when I hit the track this year. I have IAT sensors before and after I/C so it would not be a problem. I would love to find a GM IAT sensor that will read temps over 300*. They all flat line at 300*. My Fast XFI only uses GM sensors, except for the TPS which can use the stock Ford sensor.
 

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Billy Martin I have a simular set up that you have On my 97 mustang gt.I have stage 3 Pi heads from mmr and short block good for 1000hp fro mmr I am spraying Methanol 8 rib set up with 15% crank pulley and Vortech YSI upper pulley 2.70.I am getting 26-27psi on my gauage but I am not sure how much HP it makes I never went on dyno.Martin your car is 2v 4.6 same as mine can you tell me your ignition spark table numbers what you have? What is the timing you run at WOT at what rpm meaby you can post a screen shot of your ignition timing and how much boost did you run with v2?
 
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