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Sorry boys, but I am not giving away all my info. :D I think I have been more than helpful to give you that much. There isn't anybody else with Paul's intake that has volunteered ANY info., much less as much as I have. If you need further information call PHP at 517-764-7661

Peace :)
 

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Allntrl,

The lack of disclosure is why I (and I'm sure many others) are skeptical of the results. Sorry but I don't see what's to hide. For all we know the numbers could be STD verses SAE or uncorrected on a cold day. Good luck with the combo.

Thanks,

Chris Yates
96 Cobra
 

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Chris Yates said:
Allntrl,

The lack of disclosure is why I (and I'm sure many others) are skeptical of the results. Sorry but I don't see what's to hide. For all we know the numbers could be STD verses SAE or uncorrected on a cold day. Good luck with the combo.

Thanks,

Chris Yates
96 Cobra
Personally Chris I don't see why you need the before numbers. I gave you the Avg. gains in 1000rpm sets, peak gains, and all that was done to the car before and after. All numbers were SAE corrected. All of you guys can be skeptical if you want to, I'm not twisting your arm to buy one. :rolleyes: I am just telling you what my experience with the intake was. If you don't want to spend your money for one, then don't! Just keep in mind that the extra power that I got from the intake is probably going to be what keeps you seeing my taillights! :evil:
 

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bow tie klr said:


I as well as others would love to see that comparo happen. Along with a HCI intake. Dont think it will happen but would like to.
This is probably as close to a comparison as we'll get. All numbers are claimed to be SAE corrected. However, all data was gathered on different days and with different dynos.

C. Yates PHP HCI Blown's NA
RPM
2900 153 141 135 143
3000 158 147 140 149
3100 164 152 145 155
3200 170 157 150 160
3300 175 163 156 165
3400 179 169 161 170
3500 186 176 165 175
3600 193 183 168 181
3700 201 190 175 189
3800 209 197 180 196
3900 219 204 185 203
4000 227 211 190 212
4100 234 217 194 219
4200 239 223 197 225
4300 245 230 202 230
4400 250 237 207 235
4500 257 243 215 241
4600 263 249 220 247
4700 271 254 225 254
4800 278 260 233 259
4900 284 263 240 264
5000 289 269 245 268
5100 292 273 250 271
5200 296 276 255 275
5300 299 281 260 279
5400 300 285 265 282
5500 302 289 268 285
5600 304 294 270 286
5700 303 297 270 288
5800 303 300 275 287
5900 304 303 280 288
6000 306 305 285 291
6100 305 306 288 291
6200 304 307 290 290
6300 302 308 295 288
6400 298 308 295 286
6500 296 307 295 282
6600 293 306 293 280
6700 290 304 290 278
6800 287 300 290 274
6900 285 296 290 272

2900-6900
MAX 306 308 295 291
MIN 153 141 135 143
AVG 256 248 230 242

2900-4500
MAX 284 263 240 264
MIN 153 141 135 143
AVG 217 203 185 203

4000-6900
MAX 306 308 295 291
MIN 227 211 190 212
AVG 284 277 256 268

5000-6900
MAX 306 308 295 291
MIN 285 269 245 268
AVG 298 296 277 282


Yates Combo: Stock 98 Intake port matched to stock 98 IMRC's, aluminum flywheel, BBK LTs, Bassani o/r X, gutted stock MAF, U/D pulleys, aluminum drive shaft, 3.73 gears, 5w30 Mobil 1, EEC-Tuner (running three degrees more timing and 12.8ish a/f ratio, stock cat-back with weld in dynomax race magnum bullets


PHP-Combo1: PHP intake, O/R H-pipe, IMRC deletes, pro-M 80mm MAF meter, CAI with custom MAF meter to TB duct, FRPP oval TB, PHP chip, 4.56 gears, Bassani cat-back, U/D pulleys, 180 t-stat, 0w-30 M1 oil

HCI Combo2: HCI intake, typical bolt-ons (LT's, pulleys, cat-back, etc - details not provided)

Blown's NA combo: Stock Intake, Stock IMRC's, Accufab TB, 90mm Lightning MAF meter, Custom TB-to-MAF pipe, K&N Filter, U/D pulleys, BBK LT's, Catted X-pipe, 3" cat back, IRS w/4.10's, 'crude novice tuning' with EEC Tuner (11.8 a/f and +5 degrees global timing)

So, if I add a total of 20 rwhp (to be conservative) for IMRC deletes, a decent tune, an o/r pipe and my intake, that puts me at 311 rwhp at 6100 and 292 rwhp at 6900. The actual numbers with the home brewed intake, imrc deletes and competent tune are actually looking to be a bit better than this, even with less than average air.

I guess I'll hold off on the PHP intake and spend the extra cash on some cams :)
 

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So you are saying that all that was done to Chris Yates intake was that it was port matched to the factory IMRC's and the IMRC's were left in the car? :confused: Did Chris do the port work?
 

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Blown46Cobra said:


This is probably as close to a comparison as we'll get. All numbers are claimed to be SAE corrected. However, all data was gathered on different days and with different dynos.

C. Yates PHP HCI Blown's NA
RPM
2900 153 141 135 143
3000 158 147 140 149
3100 164 152 145 155
3200 170 157 150 160
3300 175 163 156 165
3400 179 169 161 170
3500 186 176 165 175
3600 193 183 168 181
3700 201 190 175 189
3800 209 197 180 196
3900 219 204 185 203
4000 227 211 190 212
4100 234 217 194 219
4200 239 223 197 225
4300 245 230 202 230
4400 250 237 207 235
4500 257 243 215 241
4600 263 249 220 247
4700 271 254 225 254
4800 278 260 233 259
4900 284 263 240 264
5000 289 269 245 268
5100 292 273 250 271
5200 296 276 255 275
5300 299 281 260 279
5400 300 285 265 282
5500 302 289 268 285
5600 304 294 270 286
5700 303 297 270 288
5800 303 300 275 287
5900 304 303 280 288
6000 306 305 285 291
6100 305 306 288 291
6200 304 307 290 290
6300 302 308 295 288
6400 298 308 295 286
6500 296 307 295 282
6600 293 306 293 280
6700 290 304 290 278
6800 287 300 290 274
6900 285 296 290 272

2900-6900
MAX 306 308 295 291
MIN 153 141 135 143
AVG 256 248 230 242

2900-4500
MAX 284 263 240 264
MIN 153 141 135 143
AVG 217 203 185 203

4000-6900
MAX 306 308 295 291
MIN 227 211 190 212
AVG 284 277 256 268

5000-6900
MAX 306 308 295 291
MIN 285 269 245 268
AVG 298 296 277 282


Yates Combo: Stock 98 Intake port matched to stock 98 IMRC's, aluminum flywheel, BBK LTs, Bassani o/r X, gutted stock MAF, U/D pulleys, aluminum drive shaft, 3.73 gears, 5w30 Mobil 1, EEC-Tuner (running three degrees more timing and 12.8ish a/f ratio, stock cat-back with weld in dynomax race magnum bullets


PHP-Combo1: PHP intake, O/R H-pipe, IMRC deletes, pro-M 80mm MAF meter, CAI with custom MAF meter to TB duct, FRPP oval TB, PHP chip, 4.56 gears, Bassani cat-back, U/D pulleys, 180 t-stat, 0w-30 M1 oil

HCI Combo2: HCI intake, typical bolt-ons (LT's, pulleys, cat-back, etc - details not provided)

Blown's NA combo: Stock Intake, Stock IMRC's, Accufab TB, 90mm Lightning MAF meter, Custom TB-to-MAF pipe, K&N Filter, U/D pulleys, BBK LT's, Catted X-pipe, 3" cat back, IRS w/4.10's, 'crude novice tuning' with EEC Tuner (11.8 a/f and +5 degrees global timing)

So, if I add a total of 20 rwhp (to be conservative) for IMRC deletes, a decent tune, an o/r pipe and my intake, that puts me at 311 rwhp at 6100 and 292 rwhp at 6900. The actual numbers with the home brewed intake, imrc deletes and competent tune are actually looking to be a bit better than this, even with less than average air.

I guess I'll hold off on the PHP intake and spend the extra cash on some cams :)
Thanks for looking all that up and putting it together.:D I didnt realize the different power ranges that were affected. Some come on early some come on later.

Good luck. I am thinking of making my own IMRC deletes and trying to port my intake myself. See how that turns out.
 

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Allntrl, Blown46cobra - Yes, all that was does was to match the lower (1/3") of the intake to the IMRC gasket. And it's worth about .5 hp. The 98 intake gasket matched with the 98 runners on engine number #3 produced all of 257rwhp (SAE corrected) stock. Clearly there's no huge gain in the port match. Regarding the before numbers, they are at the center of any performance discussion. The power change is just as important as the final numbers. Imagine for a minute I started posting on the forum that part X sucks, don't buy it. While at the same time providing sketchy data to back the claims up. I think most people might question the validity of the statements. Flip it from a criticism to a recommendation and the same holds true. I find it interesting that we can have hard (repeatable) numbers for pulleys, cat-back, x/h pipe (on and o/r), LT headers, etc..., but when it comes to intakes it's all hush, hush. I'll give credit to Robert from HCI, because he has posted real data on the list. He's taking a beating on some of the numbers but the information was very useful. Too often talk of the after-market intakes leaves out or blurs the amount of power that was gained with the IMRC deletes and dyno tune. Frustrating.

Thanks,

Chris Yates
96 Cobra
 

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[/rant on]

I have been following the thread since it was fresh out of the womb.... so to speak. Does Paul make you sign a contract stating that you won't disclose the power gains and modifications to the intake??

"I will not disclose the power gained from my intake to anyone or any website, chat room, or BBS. I also promise not to show any professional/home DIY porters the inside of the said intake."

Signed: Alltrnl

:lol:

So far it looks like Chris' combo was the strongest. Maybe tuning is the reason or maybe the combination of parts or the strong engine.... hard to say. The PHP intake seems to be real "hush hush" as Chris already stated. I could see not disclosing your numbers if you were racing in the Modular Shootout or in NMRA, but since you don't(or at least I am not aware of) I don't see any reason to not "clue us in" on the actual gains. This site is here for us to share USEFUL info such as which intake works the best and what gains part "X" gives over part "Y" and part "Z." If I could afford to be the guinea pig for a PHP intake and send it off to someone for inspection, I would. Then PHP would have some competition in the intake market and they would have to bring their prices down to a REASONABLE level. However, I don't have $1200 for just an intake right now, so I can't be the guinea pig. However, I am sure that certain people on this board could easily turn out a PHP copy for about $800 or less and still make a TON of money.

[/rant off]
 

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As a NA cobra fanatic; I have dynoed countless of times on the dyno not to count how many times I have played with my own intake manifold and the IMRC deletes(home made). Here is one thing I have to say about Chris's combo; aluminum flywheel. Believe it or not, that aluminum flywheel is worth around 10 rwhp. Take it for what's worth.

Oh, do a little research from 6 months ago and you will see my manifold result. That's just say the result is similar to what rest of the modded intake. My only mistake is that during the tuning, 8 degrees of timing were missed from 4k-5k which resulted in my 20 ft/lbs loss. Yet, the top end was still great.

Btw, the problem has since been resolved and I couldn't be happier. E-mail me if you want any more info. Later.
 

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tcobra98 said:
Believe it or not, that aluminum flywheel is worth around 10 rwhp.

Oh, do a little research from 6 months ago and you will see my manifold result.
Please reply with some details on the additional ponies form the aluminum flywheel. I've read that the flywheel is worth little/nothing at the wheels and I've that it's good for as much as 15 rwhp. Perhaps, you can help substantiate any gains.

Also, your post on the intake must have been lost in the 'big crash'. Please also provide some details on what was in the original post regarding your intake.

THX
 

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I certainly didn't see anything close to 10rwhp with the flywheel. Switching to the al flywheel, dyno tune and o/r x (verses cat x) netted all of 12rwhp. The vast majority of that was from the o/r pipe. The same al flywheel (and drive shaft) on engine number three pulled 257rwhp in stock form. If I had to do it all over agian I doubt I'd spring for the al flywheel.

Chris Yates
96 Cobra
 

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Sorry boys, but I am not giving away all my info. I think I have been more than helpful to give you that much. There isn't anybody else with Paul's intake that has volunteered ANY info., much less as much as I have. If you need further information call PHP at 517-764-7661
Lots of respect lost there. That's a weaknut excuse.
 

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Fourcam281 said:


Lots of respect lost there. That's a weaknut excuse.
Damn, you are still alive. I heard a rumor that you were whipped like a puppy and no longer races. :D

Anyway, I see there are plenty interest in the modified intake manifold again. It's a shame that the post was lost in the big crash; I tried to search for it and nothing. Oh well, here is a brief history of what happened.

After seeing so many claimed gain by those manifold; I decided to do it myself after doing quite a bit of researching. The main secret where everyone is talking about is the "runner length". From what I have gather and seen(Paul's, Lon Hill, and HCI); the total runner length varied from 9" to 13"(total means counting the 1" on the IMRC plates, 3.5" on the bottom of the manifold then the rest are the runner length). And the result varied from those length also. With the shortest one(HCI), you end up losing low end torque while the peak is quite impressive; with the longest one(Paul's), you won't lose the low end but you will require rest of the intake mods to see the full potential.

So with that in mind and with what I am planning on doing(drag racing where the car won't see below 5k at all). I decided on roughly 11" of total runner length. And at the same time I did the home made IMRC deletes. I went to the dyno with high hopes after the mods. To my surprises, I didn't see the peak power I had hoped.

My peak went from 281 [email protected] to [email protected] while my torque dropeed from 280 rwtq to 263 rwtq*. But neverless it was encouraging since my horsepower curve is flat as a rock from 6k to 7.2k(never get below 283 rwhp) compare to prior to mod(drop to 262 rwhp at 6900 rpm).

Now to that *, couple months after the mod, I decided to hook up a scanner to see what my car is doing. To my surprise, my car had lost 8 degrees of timing from 4k to 5k; And that made perfect sense after comparing it to the dyno. There were maybe 2-3 rwtq loss from 1.5k to 4k by having a shorten runner then that gap widenen to 15 rwtq from 4k to 5k. And once after 5k, the car is back to normal timing. So after placing a call to my tuner, we found out that he forgot to add the 8 degrees from 4-5k in my timing table.

Needless to say, that problem have been taken care of. Well, that's the short version. I will try to add more when I have more spare time. Later.
 

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blue88mustang said:
[/rant on]
Does Paul make you sign a contract stating that you won't disclose the power gains and modifications to the intake??

"I will not disclose the power gained from my intake to anyone or any website, chat room, or BBS. I also promise not to show any professional/home DIY porters the inside of the said intake."

Signed: Alltrnl

:lol:

So far it looks like Chris' combo was the strongest. Maybe tuning is the reason or maybe the combination of parts or the strong engine.... hard to say. The PHP intake seems to be real "hush hush" as Chris already stated. I could see not disclosing your numbers if you were racing in the Modular Shootout or in NMRA, but since you don't(or at least I am not aware of) I don't see any reason to not "clue us in" on the actual gains. This site is here for us to share USEFUL info such as which intake works the best and what gains part "X" gives over part "Y" and part "Z." If I could afford to be the guinea pig for a PHP intake and send it off to someone for inspection, I would. Then PHP would have some competition in the intake market and they would have to bring their prices down to a REASONABLE level. However, I don't have $1200 for just an intake right now, so I can't be the guinea pig. However, I am sure that certain people on this board could easily turn out a PHP copy for about $800 or less and still make a TON of money.

[/rant off]
Blue88mustang, your a real comedian aren't you. :rolleyes: See that is the problem with this board. When a person comes on here and tries to give useful info. on a product that they have on their car and provide PLENTY of info. on a product that no one else will even comment on, some JACKASS comes on here and slams you! You guys are nothing but a bunch of whining crybabies that all want something for nothing! I didn't have to sign, promise, or whatever, anything to Paul! This is the way I see it, Paul spent 3yrs. of R&D time and went through 7 BRAND NEW intakes to finally settle on a design that produced the gains he was looking for and I think that he deserves to get paid for that! Also, you are looking at around 30hrs. of labor time to complete 1 PHP Stage 2 intake! So, out of RESPECT toward him, I am not going to give away his R&D secrets for you people that don't want to pay for them and just want to try and copy his work for free. You want to see how the intake is made, THEN BUY ONE! There are so many guys on here that bash PHP, well if his shop is "SO BAD" then why does FORD rely on him for countless R&D projects? Why is his shop one of only two in the country to be testing the spray bore 5.0? Why does his shop get prototype parts from Ford WAY before anyone else has ever even heard of them? Why did his shop get to dyno test 50 different, yes I said 50 different, 2000 Cobra R's for Ford before the final specs were set and they were ready to be released to the public? Why did his shop get picked AGAIN for dyno R&D for the upcoming '03 Cobra and none of the other shops were allowed to even get close to an '03 Cobra before they are to be built? Why has his shop been picked by several big name aftermarket product companies to build cars to showcase their products at the SEMA show for the last several years? Why does PHP do Ford SVT management vehicles such as Jerry Green's last two Cobra's and now his Lightning? WHY, because Paul is professional, he has the shop, the tools, and the ability and knowledge to carry out such projects and get the results that companies like Ford depend on to make the cars and trucks that we drive! Paul and his shop are one of the TOP modular shops in the country and his influence helps determine future parts and products that have, and will, become available to us the consumer. It's time to grow up people, quit your *****ing, and PAY to PLAY the game!

Now, as for your comment Fourcam281, it isn't an excuse and I could care less if I have your respect! :rolleyes:

Signed: ALLNTRL, One very satisified PHP customer!
 

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ALLNTRL,
I don't think no one is trying to "steal" Pauls R&D. They are not asking you to list each runner length.We just wanna know your "BEFORE" numbers so we will know how much of a difference the intake makes. Why are your BEFORE numbers such a secret? Sounds like you're embarrassed that you spent $1200 and maybe only gained a few HP. I have to agree with the others, your responses are weak at best. I don't think anyone would bash you if you bought the intake and it did'nt produce great results. I myself am in the market for an intake, but I want to know what to expect to gain for $1200 or $800 or whatever. Thats all we're asking.
 

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All I am saying is that it is over-priced and his only competition is a short runner intake(HCI) that loses Hp/Tq down low and a guy that never answers his messages(Lon Hill). Wow!! What great competition that is! :rolleyes:

I don't care if he is sleeping with Bill Ford, that doesn't mean his intake is worth its weight in gold. The #'s that come from the intake setup are what determine the value, not what HE *thinks* it is worth. You tell us the before numbers and the after numbers and then WE can decide if it is worth the $1200 (intake) + $800 for chip, deletes, etc = $2,000. I am all about staying N/A and I would like some more PROVEN #'s before buying a $2,000 part that might only give me 10rwhp.

Can you at least tell us why you won't disclose the before/after numbers?
 
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