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About to pick up a pair of their "stiffening rails" to make jacking up my car less of a pain. Read about the web brace in MM&FF a few weeks ago and found it somewhat interesting. Looks very similar to the KB Matrix setup, which I recall reading is useless, but I can't find much if any info on why. Anyone have some tech regarding why a matrix/web setup does or does not improve chassis rigidity in a meaningful way?

Web Brace 79-04 Mustang
 

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I put the KB "Extreme Matrix" braces with jacking rails and SFCs on my 01 Cobra Vert. That addition (about 27lbs) really stiffened the car. For example, unlke my 86 Vert with just standard length SFCs, I can place a jack on the jacking rail about a third of the way from either the front or rear wheels, and raise three wheels off the ground. But what is impressive is that I can open and close the doors with it in the air and there is very little to no misalignment. However, this system is illegal for certain classes. On my vert that is a non-issue since it is a street car, but in my personal experience on a vert the system works as advertised.
 

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I have been told having and not having the extra bracing is like the difference in having and not having subframe connectors. I plan on making my own when I move back home in a couple of months
 

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You don't need 200$ worth of skeleton under your car to have a simple jack location.

Honestly, if you visit your local metal supplier/fab shop, you can purchase some thick-ish rectangle stock for about 40 bucks. Then just pay someone 20-40 bucks to tack it on the pinch weld.

If that "matrix" system was such a great invention, MM would've done it and perfected it long ago.

I have no matrix system on my car and have used the rockers(with tube)as a jacking point for over 5 years now.
 

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If that "matrix" system was such a great invention, MM would've done it and perfected it long ago.
It is a "great system", and illegal in all classes except perhaps full-zoot race cars. At that point, I'm sure there is something better. In any event, this is all academic. For a street car, especialy a vert, this matrix system is better than plain vanilla SFCs but come with an added weight penalty and the class limitation issue. I too have used the other jacking points on the 86 for over 15 years, and those points show the scars. Not so with the jacking rails (now about 10 years old).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You don't need 200$ worth of skeleton under your car to have a simple jack location.

Honestly, if you visit your local metal supplier/fab shop, you can purchase some thick-ish rectangle stock for about 40 bucks. Then just pay someone 20-40 bucks to tack it on the pinch weld.

If that "matrix" system was such a great invention, MM would've done it and perfected it long ago.

I have no matrix system on my car and have used the rockers(with tube)as a jacking point for over 5 years now.
This is the logic I keep seeing. Makes sense to an extent, but where's the tech? And I never said I need "$200 worth of skeleton" to jack my car up. Was simply wondering if adding a matrix/web/ladder brace setup between jacking rails an SFCs has any meaningful effect on chassis rigidity.
 

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This is the logic I keep seeing. Makes sense to an extent, but where's the tech?
I don't ask MM for their shock dyno's on their Bilstein dampers....I just trust the people that build them, use them, win with them and sell them to me.
 

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Come on, so you're going to tell me that SLA systems, watts links, third links, and PHBs with more adjustments than a single slot have no place in road racing?

MM doesn't make any of these, there are other Mustang suspension companies that do. They've also won a lot of races.

I can guarantee you that jacking rails have their place in my MM equipped Mustang. It's been a real bitch to jack that thing up without them and with the TA there and the ride height set to optimum levels (gotta drive up on boards to get the jack under the k-member). Does MM sell those? Nope. Do they sell SFCs that someone could make at home? Yup.

Those web thingies do tie the SFCs to the jacking rails along the same line as where the SFCs attach to the subframes as well as between them. If there's any flex in full length SFCs, these look like they could help. Is it enough to be worth the money and weight penalty or to be noticable to the driver? I have no idea but I'd hardly just discount it based on the fact that MM or whoever else doesn't do it.

I would require some tech for that decision. That being said, I will be doing jacking rails, I doubt I'd do the web braces without some convincing that they do actually work.
 

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I think you're reading WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much into this.....

Also, I don't think one company or another can perfect a jacking rail. It'd be like one wheel company saying "Our wheels are the most round in the industry!!".
 

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I'm just saying that there's no tech on either side of the argument of waste of money vs not.

There's not much tech in SFCs etiher to be honest. We all just know they work because it's common sense. If that were the case here (in either direction) the topic would be pointless.

...and your right about jacking rails as a standalone component, all they need to do is shore up the pinch seam from collapsing when you jack up the car. There doesn't need to be any tech in that either other than don't use too small a piece of square tube.
 

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I think you're reading WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much into this.....

Also, I don't think one company or another can perfect a jacking rail. It'd be like one wheel company saying "Our wheels are the most round in the industry!!".

If you look on our website, no where will you find a product named "jacking rail". We never had the intention of using it as a "jacking rail". After performing our test it was very evident a "stiffening rail" was needed there to increase "stiffness", not just be a place to jack up the car. And yes, even after adding the stiffening rail, the car still had too much twist, thus the WEB brace and Spider brace were designed and produced.

In your own words ....I just trust the people that build them, use them, win with them and sell them to me.
Well ........
 

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I'm just saying that there's no tech on either side of the argument of waste of money vs not.

There's not much tech in SFCs etiher to be honest. We all just know they work because it's common sense. If that were the case here (in either direction) the topic would be pointless.

...and your right about jacking rails as a standalone component, all they need to do is shore up the pinch seam from collapsing when you jack up the car. There doesn't need to be any tech in that either other than don't use too small a piece of square tube.
There's LOTS of tech on subframe connectors. It's just not easily accessible, and even less so now that its main provider has been run off the forums for providing actual tech and people mistaking it as advertising. In the absence of mathematical tech, close your eyes and think deeeep thoughts about things like actual load paths and how much the x-bracing of something like a subframe connector can really affect the torsional rigidity of a car, and how much it can really add to the bending rigidity compared to a properly mounted standard beam.
 

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...and even less so now that its main provider has been run off the forums for providing actual tech and people mistaking it as advertising.
to whom are you referring?
 

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What makes me absolutely laugh is that by telling him he was advertising (which he wasn't, I read that thread) and running him off, there's less reason to come to this forum, which equals less clicks, which equals fewer advertisers.
 

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What makes me absolutely laugh is that by telling him he was advertising (which he wasn't, I read that thread) and running him off, there's less reason to come to this forum, which equals less clicks, which equals fewer advertisers.
I absolutely agree. What a shame.

One of the very best go to guys on this forum when it comes to mustang suspensions.
 

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What makes me absolutely laugh is that by telling him he was advertising (which he wasn't, I read that thread) and running him off, there's less reason to come to this forum, which equals less clicks, which equals fewer advertisers.
Wait, really?? what happen, which was the thread? was it a FTBR thread?
 

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That sucks!

He is an asset to the Mustang community.

-Eric
Indeed, sucks to hear that, I guess Dave Z, Woody and Ed Curtis should be pulling out too if the tech they provide in other forums is advertising. Or, did this have something to do with MM not being a paid advertiser?
 

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Mr. Hidley helped me imensely with my race car setup and street car misc. If he starts posting on a different forum someone please let me know as my "go-to entertainment site" may well change. Hell corral should have been paying him for what he provided to this forum.
 
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