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that's a pretty good explanation but it doesn't really go into much detail. Very very basic.

The real basic version is this. Think about moving a refrigerator. If you push it at the top, it wants to tip over. If you push it down at the bottom, you push real hard but it doesn't want to move much, if any. Somewhere in between is where it takes the least amount of energy to move it, and this is similar to setting up a basic 4 link. You want IC to be somewhere in the middle where the car will launch with little (or no) tire spin (if the track will take it), yet still propel the car forwards.

Tim McManis explains this stuff, and a lot more on his Youtube videos, which I find to be both entertaining AND extremely informative. Worth watching for sure, but you need a basic understanding of geometry and physics in order to understand some of it.
 

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also...

stock suspension has a shorter upper arm than it does lower, meaning they move differently than a true 4 link. when a true parallel 4 link suspension separates the IC length stays the same and and the AS goes up. when a stock suspension car separates they both change

more to think about
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your input. I am running stock suspension but thought this would be a good starting point for understanding how the geometry works. I have not scaled my car yet so I don't know where the cg is yet. I have a strange outlaw rear housing from Dave @ team z. I was told by a local radial racer to just start with the upper arms @ the lowest setting and the lowers on the bottom hole. I only have stock location @ body end and no adjustments on that end. I have not run it yet so I have no idea how it is. What are your opinions on the info I was given?
Ps. I am asking because I know that you guys have the experience that I don't.
 

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we run ladder bars so i have no idea...
 

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im right in the middle of learning this 4 link stuff myself but the car is coming along much faster than I though it was going to the car now goes straight and doesn't roll at all its still blowing the tires off but at least it goes straight lol
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Good to hear. Never have had a problem making my cars go straight, but blowing the tires off is another thing. Just hoping that with the new car , having so much more power that I can learn how to get the suspension set up right to get it to go forward. Lol
 

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On my car last year, I ran Wolf Racecraft upper and lower control arms and their anti roll bar. I also put on Kenney Brown lower control arm brackets that lowered the mounting point for the rear lower control arms at the diff by 1 inch. With 1 degree pinion down angle, on a 26 x 8.5 Hoosier slick, I managed a 1.29 sec 60 foot. This was also with a QA1 single adjustable rear shock set right in the middle of the adjustments. I was pretty suprised it performed so well. Since then, I have installed Afco double adjustable rear shocks and a Baseline Performance rear upper set up http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/kits/outlaw.htm. I have not got the car out on the track yet to see any improvements, but look forward to doing so in the coming weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
On my car last year, I ran Wolf Racecraft upper and lower control arms and their anti roll bar. I also put on Kenney Brown lower control arm brackets that lowered the mounting point for the rear lower control arms at the diff by 1 inch. With 1 degree pinion down angle, on a 26 x 8.5 Hoosier slick, I managed a 1.29 sec 60 foot. This was also with a QA1 single adjustable rear shock set right in the middle of the adjustments. I was pretty suprised it performed so well. Since then, I have installed Afco double adjustable rear shocks and a Baseline Performance rear upper set up **********************THE BEST Upper Control Arm Kit on the market**********************. I have not got the car out on the track yet to see any improvements, but look forward to doing so in the coming weeks.
That is a great 60 ft. Time. I have a little more adjustment than that and running Mt et street. I can't recall what size for sure but it is a 15in rim size 28 tall and 12.5in tread width. If I can see a1.29 60 I would be happy.
 

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I am by no means an expert, or even all that experienced, but I will share my experience.

Car makes about 360rwhp, estimated, 5spd and 3360 lbs with me. I have ran a few different control arms, springs and tires, always a drag radial. Best 60ft was a 1.83.

I finally got tired and began to deal with Kevin Slaby from baseline, and ended up with his suggested rear setup. Here is what I have now:

UPR coilovers with 175lb springs
J&m weight jacker lowers
Relocated uppers
Stock v8 sprints
10 way strange all corners
MT 26X10.5 ET streets (8.5" contact patch)
Racestars big n Littles

I followed his plotting advice from his website and through several emails with him. 2 weekends ago I ran the car at Atlanta dragway in truestreet. I cut five 1.62-1.66 60fts, and a best of 1.58 60ft!

Alot of experienced racers told me to ditch the relocated stuff and that plotting a stock suspension car was pointless, but cutting .25 off my 60ft and grabbing my first 11 second pass was well worth the effort.

Joe
 

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ladder bar is similar to a 4 link in that the intersect point aka instant center (IC) is where the upper and lower links intersect, usually on ladders that is the front mount.
i know this... that response was to his asking about mounting points on the stock suspension set ups
 
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