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Discussion Starter #1
What are the down sides (with respect to handling, this is not a DD) of running torque arm rear springs WITHOUT actually having a torque arm on the car?

Thanks
Mark
 

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Running a 1300-ish pound conventional spring up front to match the rear(if you have a stock front geometry).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
...and if I'm not running a spring with a high-enough rate up front, what will the car do?
 

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You'll hafta make sure your side glass windows are clean 'cuz that's probably what you'll be looking through mostly with the rear end all over the place.
 

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Any other rear suspension mods? The reason I ask is that I don't have the T/A but do run a PM3L along with the MM PHB and their adjustable LCAs. The PM3L is rod-ended and together with the MM LC, there is no suspension bind. Thus, the rear supension is closer to T/A or 3-link like than quadra-bind like. As a result, I run T/A "light" springs - H&R Super Race. These do not exhibit the characteristics described above since the rear articulates with no built-in wheel rate caused by the binding rubber bushings. I may need to use the higher rate T/A springs at some point but right now I like the ride and handling quality.
 

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Previously I had 400# front coil-overs with H&R Race springs in the rear. I ordered a rear coil-over kit with 325# springs as I was planning to order a torque arm and 425# front springs. Well, things got in the way so I didnt order the torque are. I was curious and installed the 325# rear coilovers with the existing 400# fronts.

As 2k2GT, you will be using your side windows a lot, haha. The rear end will be very, very loose. I removed the rear sway bar in attempts to help but it is just crazy. Pair the stupid stiff rear end with the old sensitive power steering system and the car was dangerous in high speed corners. I have 250# rear springs that should be here Tuesday.

So in summing, super stiff rear springs makes my Mustang slower around the track than my '07 Subaru Impreza 2.5i daily driver.
 

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I drove like this for awhile and I didn't have a problem, but I guess I couldn't notice with 450 ftlbs of torque at 2500 rpm. I finally got tires that don't spin thru all the gears. Yes it rides a bit stiff.
 

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I wouldnt waste time or money on conv springs get coilovers all the way around. One a closer spring rate to wheel rate and two unlimited combination of setups, 3 u can run alot stiffer coilovers and still have a great ride quality.
 

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Rear coilovers are pricey though. I got height-adjustable LCA's once I settled on a spring rate and couldn't be happier.
 

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Rear coilovers are pricey though. I got height-adjustable LCA's once I settled on a spring rate and couldn't be happier.
But those LCA's are really HEAVY!! I mean, c'mon....that's unsprung weight that's just a hindrance, right? :eek::)
 

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Pricey.... I bet ud spend 1200 on trickflow heads in a second but cheap out on suspension, to later on be pissed why u cant hook
 

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Its not just about ride height adjusting, read my post
 

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I think you missed the part of MFE's post that said "once I settled on a spring rate...".

Much like everything you purchase, you have to justify cost vs. performance. I'd say for his application, MFE made a wise decision.

I found a buyer for all my old NON-coilover stuff, and I was able to justify the cost to go with coilovers.
 

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I've got the MM R&T Box with TA/PHB and using H&R Race springs on the front with Super Race on the rear. Was a little bit pushy still but increased camber to 2 1/2 and it's better now. I wonder if going up on the rear sway bar would balance it out?
 

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A tech at Maximum Motorsports told me not to get rear coil overs if I was going with a 275lb front coil-over. He recommended matching that with their H&R Super Race rear spring. Apparently the matching rear coil over would be too soft and cause issues. He recommended the "lighter" torque arm spring if I went with 300lb or more on the front. I am not sure at what point in front spring rate he would recommend rear coil overs.

I will not go over 275 up front due to the fact that it will hurt drag launches and I want a decent street ride. I am hoping this will be a good street/strip/track compromise. Supporting with Koni SA dampers and I really want the Extreme Duty adjustable rear control arms but they are pricey. They have spherical ends on both sides and I really want the ride height adjustability.
 

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Strange. I inquired the same question when I was running 475# front coilovers (Koni DAs) and Bilstein BTS rear springs (had a big push), and MM told me to NEVER use either Torque Arm spring set without a torque arm. The words "driving on glass" were said.

I settled on the H&R Race rears (and custom valved Bilsteins to match) with 400# front coilovers... Though I'd probably do the Super Race rears if given the chance again... but the rates are really close, so a slight change in driving style can make each work just as well. I've got a close friend running NASA TTC and winning! with 350# fronts and 250-275# rears... Bullitt bars and custom valved Bilstein HD's to match. So if anything, I'd say I should probably try gaining more grip in the front with softer springs than loosening the rear with stiffer ones.

Of course... YEMV...
 

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I wonder if he recommended the stiffer rear springs for me because he knew it was primarily a drag car? Do you know the spring rates for the Super Race rear H&R's? MM said they would be a good match for a 275lb front coil over.
 

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Do you know the spring rates for the Super Race rear H&R's? MM said they would be a good match for a 275lb front coil over.
The H&R Super Race are 260-300# progressive. I'm running them with 300# C/Os but have a rod-ended PM3L in the rear which has no bind. Thus, I also needed to reduce the size of my front bar (used MM's piece) and increased the rear bar (MM's adjustable .75" solid bar). Seems to be pretty good compromise for street comfort and for autox (this car will never see the drag strip), although I want to try one-step stiffer in the rear to see if that helps the car rotate better.
 

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That doesn't seem too stiff. I think I will go with Chuck's (MM tech) recommendation and try it. I'll probably wait to remove any of the uppers until I can afford to go all out and put the torque arm and panhard bar on it. I'm not sure how the PM3L will do with high horsepower drag launches. Hopefully replacing my poly bushed lowers with the spherical bushed MM lowers will help reduce some of the bind.
 
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