[drw4338]

Hey all,

So as the title states, I am needing help with a crankcase ventilation issue. To get started, this is not a track car. This is a street driven car, so I am not looking for solutions designed for racing applications. I am hoping for something fairly simple, that works for what I use the car for (occasional cruising, she is not a daily) Anyway, I recently installed a Paxton Novi 1220 SL on my 93 pushing 6lbs of boost. Today, after giving her WOT a few times, I noticed oil weeping out of the dipstick. This is not a significant amount of fluid here, just some wetness on the outside of the tube, and a few droplets that caught my eye on the spark plug wires. We are not talking about blowing a dipstick out or anything. Clearly though, my crankcase it getting pressurized. So you guys have all the details here, compression numbers are all within normal range of each other, vacuum pressure holds true at negative 17-18 psi at idle, and spark plugs look clean. So, I am not thinking this is blowby (although I am a newbie so what do I know). As she sits currently, she does have a PCV setup on a 99 explorer intake. The PCV was bought new recently at Autozone, and the setup is run like the Explorer which originally owned the intake, with one line coming off the PCV valve connected to a fitting which allows two lines to be plugged into two ports on the plenum. Also, as the instructions for the SC install stated, I removed the line from the TB to the oil filler tube, and connected a line from the oil filler tube to the intake housing surrounding the air filter, with an inline filter (NAPA GOLD Filter 3033). All parts for this setup came with the kit. This was not just something I rigged up. I would have thought this would be enough ventilation, but this setup does not seem to be working well enough. I am worried about my main seals here. I already have a rear main that leaks despite changing it several times, and I don't want to make it any worse. Also, just as a side note, I have a small weeping leak from the lower intake right behind the thermostat housing where you apply the RTV in the corners. This is probably just me again being a newbie and doing a crappy job when I installed the lower intake, but I am wondering if maybe the pressure is making that one worse as well. One thought I had was installing a breather cap in place of the oil cap, in addition to all that has already been done. The marketing picture that advertised the SC on the AM website where I bought the SC, had it like this (breather cap plus line running from oil tube to air filter housing) Can I do that? Would it help? If not, what should I do? Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

 

[drw4338]

Hmmm, well I think I may have solved my own problem. The line going from the oil filler port to the air filter cover, was kinked and restricting flow. With the PCV valve being held shut by positive pressure while boosted, it does not surprise me that it was trying to vent through the dipstick. I am still wondering if getting rid of this line from oil filler neck to air filter cover, and just using a breather cap, would be a better way to go. With the cap, there is no worries about a kinked line, and it cleans up the bay a bit. Can anyone comment on their experiences with using a breather cap? Would changing to a breather cap at this point (post dyno tune) cause any tuning problems. I know with my setup, they create a small vacuum leak which is tuned around. I mean so does the line I have installed, but the breather cap seems to be a bigger opening than the line I have (maybe creating a bigger vac leak). Thoughts anyone?

 

[drw4338]

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[midnightlaundry]

Indy recommended one of these to me. I think it's a badass system that cleans the air in or out of boost. It's way affordable. Click on the diagram that applies to your motor.

PCV Catch can - Universal Catch Can for you GDI Engine

Catch Can Installation Diagrams

 

[drw4338]

Very Cool, but a little more in depth than I wanted to go. This is a low boost setup. I'm only running 6psi, but thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it.

I have read that a one way check valve in the vac line going to the PCV could help. Not sure what check valve to get though. The only ones I see listed on Amazon say they are for fuel. Does that matter, or do I need one specifically made for air? Also, does it matter if it is plastic, stainless, aluminum, one made for automotive or not, etc.

Who knows maybe just switching to the breather will solve the problem. It does appear like it will vent better than the line I have running to the cover for the air filter.

 

[ToxicWaste]

I did my own research and came to my own conclusions and here's what I did.

I have about 10lbs of boost on my setup. I installed this: Moroso Universal Aluminum Mustang Breather Tank 85473 (79-17 All) - Free Shipping , routed the PCV vacuum hose from the upper intake manifold to the PCV (like stock). Then I ran PCV hose (it MUST be PCV hose or it will collapse/weep) from the passenger valve cover to the catch can I linked. If you have valve covers that have a breather in each, even better>route them both to the catch can. I have yet to pop the PCV valve or dipstick out and just had it dynoed on 5/5. Previous to this, the dipstick would pop out.

In relation to the above, I tried a couple different ways to avoid pressure but the above method works best. I tried running the PCV valve to the catch can in>then out to the intake but that failed. I also capped the PCV off and ran just a breather but that failed. When searching online, so many people have tried a lot of different things. I also appeared to be "foaming" my oil with the other methods and quit altogether until I did what my setup is now. What's nice about this can is the built in breather/and filter. So you're not dripping oil on the ground from the venting. The packing inside the Moroso unit does a good job of separating everything too. You should know this tank is not small but you'll find a place for it. I mounted mine on the passenger firewall (no A/C or heater core).

Good luck.

 

[Foxbody817]

Very Cool, but a little more in depth than I wanted to go. This is a low boost setup. I'm only running 6psi, but thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it.

I have read that a one way check valve in the vac line going to the PCV could help. Not sure what check valve to get though. The only ones I see listed on Amazon say they are for fuel. Does that matter, or do I need one specifically made for air? Also, does it matter if it is plastic, stainless, aluminum, one made for automotive or not, etc.

Who knows maybe just switching to the breather will solve the problem. It does appear like it will vent better than the line I have running to the cover for the air filter.

Some people suggest using a 95' Supra (turbo) style PCV or a Turbo Coupe PCV since those are designed around pressurized induction and our 5.0's were not. Also, a one way check valve from our brake booster I hear will work between the PCV and the intake too.

 

[drw4338]

Well, after doing a bunch of research, I frankly don't like any of the methods I have read about all that much. They all have positives, but then again, they all seem to have their downsides also. The best ones seem to be expensive, and not really what I am looking for for a street car. Anyway, here is what I have decided to try. Anyone feel free to chime in if they think I am making a huge mistake, but after reading a bunch of threads on this topic, I have decided this method seems the most reasonable for me. My plan is to put a one way check valve in the vac line between the intake and PCV. I have ordered one off of Amazon. It is a brake booster valve for an old Volkswagon Rabbit from the 80's. I had read that our brake booster valves would work as well like you mentioned Foxbody 817, but this one was designed as an in line valve with two equally sized barbs on each end unlike ours. Just makes for a cleaner install I think. As recommended on one thread I found, I am also going to my local Ford dealer tomorrow, to see if I can acquire a PCV valve for an 86 SVO. I then plan on replacing the hose (with inline fuel filter) that goes from my oil filler neck to the air filter cover, with a breather cap on the oil filler neck. I am actually a little disappointed with this because I am sure Paxton designed their kit this way because it reduced fumes entering the cabin, but, and this is a big but, I had a guy at work who has been building muscle cars long before I was born point out a few things with that design. The first thing he said to me was try to imagine running while trying to exhale through a straw. He did not need to explain further. I got his point. The second thing he said was won't that oil mist eventually work its way into your MAF. I am not sure on this one, but it is a risk I would rather not take. I know that many people will point out that breathers can smell, they can mist oil into the engine compartment, and that running one with a PCV still hooked up allows unmetered air into the engine. I will not argue with any one of you. I believe you are right, however, I have some reasons for doing it this way. While the breathers probably do smell, and they probably do mist oil, the opening at at the top of the filler neck where the cap goes, is far bigger than the opening of the port on the side. I have to believe it will breath better. Honestly, I would rather clean up oil mist, than dump oil on the highway because of a main seal leak. Now on to the unmetered air part. Well, Paxton's design of using that hose from oil filler neck to air filter cover essentially does the same damn thing as far as letting unmetered air in. I doubled checked to make sure, and no where in the instructions does is say to alter the PCV system. So, either Paxton's engineers don't seem to feel the vac leak is an issue, or I just got my car dyno tuned around a vac leak like many people say is possible. If i did just get my car dyno tuned around the vac leak (I am assuming by enriching the fuel), then removing the leak at this point I am guessing will make me run rich. Again, newbie talking here, so I may be way off base on all of this. Thoughts Anyone?

 

[drw4338]

By the way, I have had people on this site convince me off the path i was on before, so I do listen to good advice when given.

 

[indy2000]

First you need to research the FRESH air line on the filler neck

Second, the KIT cited, is a cure of ford factory designed system in the ecoboost, and I tend to think ford engineers for the most part are more thorough than paxton

that kit, yes expensive, is for a street car

when you figure out the system that hope to put together, will cost more in labor and materials,

that kit will seem cheap

and dyno tuning around an airleak, is a crock

 

[LX1993]

Paxton's design returned the air before the maf, so it would be "metered". One of the problems with their design is the engine is pulling air out of the opening in the inner fender, there is not really a vacuum in the air filter housing, so there is no "postive" crankcase ventilation, there is crankcase ventilation. A 3/8" vent line is not adequate. Several options, breather on filler neck, ( get ready to invest in large quantities of 409!), 2 -10 an lines to a breather tank (will work but not cheap), or (and yes, this is what I did), run another line from drivers side valve cover, ( I used a gutted pcv valve as a fitting), tee the line from the breather tube into this line, run through oil seperator, (Jegs, $40), then through a filter, then ran it to a fitting i installed in the intake piping pre blower. This would be unmetered air, never been an issue. You could install a fitting pre maf, although I would definitely use a seperator and filter to prevent getting oil on the maf sensor. I also use a turbo coupe pcv valve to help sealing under boost and avoid pressure in the crankcase, which sounds like it may have been part of the problem. The check valve you ordered should fix that part of the equation. Good luck and sorry for the long winded reply, ( couple few Natty's in by now).

 

[drw4338]

So two questions for you Indy (and I am not being a smart ass, just curious)

1.) If running a breather with a PCV system installed creates a vac leak, why on earth did Paxton design a SC kit which would do that? I am assuming of course that you agree with me that this hose with inline filter to the air filter cover works the same as a breather. If you disagree, please explain.

2.) Why is dyno tuning around this vac leak a croc. The tuner had to have done something to make the car run ok despite the leak right?

 

[drw4338]

LX1993, no worries man. I appreciate the reply. What you said makes total sense. I will look into doing your setup, if I find that I am having to clean up a lot like you said. Now off to the fridge. You reminded me that I have a few beers in their waiting for me.

 

[indy2000]

So two questions for you Indy (and I am not being a smart ass, just curious)

1.) If running a breather with a PCV system installed creates a vac leak, why on earth did Paxton design a SC kit which would do that? I am assuming of course that you agree with me that this hose with inline filter to the air filter cover works the same as a breather. If you disagree, please explain.

2.) Why is dyno tuning around this vac leak a croc. The tuner had to have done something to make the car run ok despite the leak right?

1) maybe Paxton can answer that
2)run okay? common sense says, you don't want an air leak when you are trying to calculate fuel mass correctly, no?

is it just put tape on the oil light sort of thing?

if you don't want it done right, 'just make it run', that might be perfect

 

[indy2000]

reading Paxton's install manual

it seems they don't even know what the line from the oil fill tube to TB is.

its NOT a vent, or breather, its a FRESH AIR LINE

they make and sell superchargers

they could care less about the PCV system

call them, they will tell you, use anything you like, coke bottle? who cares

 

[PM-Performance]

Here is my setup and NO issues with blowing anything out that I have noticed:
1. CFM Motorsports check valved breather on the oil fill port
2. Oil fill fresh air line running to the power pipe
3. OEM Motorcraft Turbo coupe or Supercoupe PCV valve (2 vac sources hooked to the PCV)
4. Moroso air/oil seperator inline with the PCV to the manifold

 

[Shaker666]

I was having some dipstick blowout after tuning my supercharged rig and came up with the following solution:

• Mishimoto 2-port oil catch can. Made in China, but well made and definitely works well.
• -6AN fittings on both ports and one hose made to run to the stock PCV valve and location, the other from the catch can to the intake tract right before the supercharger.
• Drain plug on the bottom using a radiator petcock. Occasionally need to drain this out - if excess is allowed to accumulate, you'll be right where you started: dipstick blowout.

These catch cans feature a coarse separator plate, internal baffling, and finally a sintered bronze filter before output - keeps the intake tract nice and clean. I also run a small inline filter between the passenger valve cover fill neck and the fresh air inlet because oil tends to blow hard under boost.

 

[Foxbody817]

So two questions for you Indy (and I am not being a smart ass, just curious)

1.) If running a breather with a PCV system installed creates a vac leak, why on earth did Paxton design a SC kit which would do that? I am assuming of course that you agree with me that this hose with inline filter to the air filter cover works the same as a breather. If you disagree, please explain.

2.) Why is dyno tuning around this vac leak a croc. The tuner had to have done something to make the car run ok despite the leak right?

Venting your passenger side valve cover is a bandaid but only for a minor cut so to speak. It can be tuned around but some people will still not agree with it. The factory EFI system with MAF needs/wants to meter all air through the MAF. I don't think you'd be arguing (or debating) this if you truly understood how the EFI MAF and Ford PCV system work in naturally aspirated form as well as forced induction. You have gotten a lot of good advice and so far and I don't see any "bad" advice given to you yet. There is more than one way to do it right and sometimes the best way will cost you more money than you'd want to spend. I just removed my engine this last winter because my PCV was bad and blew out all of my seals and gaskets and I do not want that again so I feel your pain.

Best of luck.

 

[LaserRed]

Oil Cap w/ One-Way Breather - Anyone Used This?

 

[indy2000]

that device only allows oily vapors to leave the valve cover.

It does not allow FRESH air into the crankcase

there is a very good reason you want fresh air into the crankcase, they figured that out in the '60s and '70s