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Discussion Starter #1
Current setup= 331. AFR 165 heads, systemax intake, comp stroker cam, DSS forged bottem end, stock block. Compression is somewhere around 10.3:1-10.5:1. 30LB injectors, in tank 340LPH pump, 70MM MAS. SCT Chip/dyno tune Tremec TKO 600. Made 388 to the wheels 3 years ago when put together.

I just picked up a used Vortech S trim. I'm thinking I will only be able to get away with like 4-5 pounds of boost...I wanna stay safe, not a track car. Looking for some input from people who know:

1. 60 pound injectors?
2. Do i need a new MAS...or can a tuner just work with my current one once I put bigger injectors in?
3. How do I calculate what pulleys I need? The kit was sold to me as "comes with upgraded 10 rib 10 pound pulleys setup"....I thought boost varied motor to motor based on components?
4. Can i keep this on 93 and be safe...or do i NEED a meth kit? (really dont want one).
5. Can anyone suggest a GOOD/EXPERT tuner near the New Orleans Louisiana area (within several hours) that wont blow my #### up tuning this? My previous tuner for this N/A-nitrous setup has a 56 month wait, and their lead guy i think is no longer there...don't trust the work I have been seeing coming out of there since.

6. Any knowledge anyone wanna drop on me being the first time ever dealing with boost? I am assuming I drop in bigger injectors, bolt the thing up once I determine pulleys...then drag it to a dyno....I missing something?

Thanks Guys.
 

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The psi rating on any pulley set up is a ball park/average. It will vary depending on engine efficiency. At 4-5 psi of boost you are only looking at 80-100 extra hp or so. And yes, you will need bigger fuel injectors. A boosted engine will always need bigger fuel injectors for a specific HP level compared to N/A. Most fuel injector calculators will give you an idea of size required for crank HP based on N/A or Boosted. A 450 N/A crank HP engine would require a 30 lb/hr injector for an 8 cyl engine. Add boost and the engine now needs a 36 lb/hr injector for the same crank HP. These numbers were assuming 85% duty cycle.
https://www.deatschwerks.com/fuel-calculators/fuel-injector-calculator
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The psi rating on any pulley set up is a ball park/average. It will vary depending on engine efficiency. At 4-5 psi of boost you are only looking at 80-100 extra hp or so. And yes, you will need bigger fuel injectors. A boosted engine will always need bigger fuel injectors for a specific HP level compared to N/A. Most fuel injector calculators will give you an idea of size required for crank HP based on N/A or Boosted. A 450 N/A crank HP engine would require a 30 lb/hr injector for an 8 cyl engine. Add boost and the engine now needs a 36 lb/hr injector for the same crank HP. These numbers were assuming 85% duty cycle.
https://www.deatschwerks.com/fuel-calculators/fuel-injector-calculator
Thank you.

1. Yep..i knew I need bigger injectors, just looking for how to calculate whether it would be 60, 80, etc. So...looking like 60 is my sweet spot.
2. My boost level was a guess...un-educated....based on my compression, wanting to stay on 93 octane, and not wanting to push the ragged edge...maybe i am WAY off on that guess?
3. So I'm assuming vortech might be ablr to help me take a guess on the pulley size based on my setup? Do you basically just throw it on and see what it makes then change it from there? Seems like a very crude "trial and error" way to guess at it??

4. Most important part...ANYONE with info on a REPUTABLE/EXPERIENCED tuner I can go to...please pass info my way.
 

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Boost level is not determined by compression ratio. Compression ratio will determine how much cylinder pressure you build. That cylinder pressure will obviously go up for every psi of boost made. Most psi ratings for pulley combo's are based on a stock engine. If the intake/heads/exhaust/camshaft allow for more efficient flow, then you will see less psi on the boost gauge because the boost is not getting stacked up in the head and intake manifold compared to stock. It is not that the engine is getting less air resulting in less boost pressure, it is that the engine is using more of the available air flow from the S/C compared to stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Calculator shows 46-48.....60 would be overkill.....80 seems WAY high???
 

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Calculator shows 46-48.....60 would be overkill.....80 seems WAY high???
The point you're missing is that 80's can be easily adjusted/tuned to operate like stock injectors and the car will never know it. You may never need such large injectors but b/c these can be tuned to operate like stock they are used to eliminate the need for larger ones when people make more power later on in life.

I have 160's on mine (I need them) but it idles and drives like stock.


ks
 

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Current setup= 331. AFR 165 heads, systemax intake, comp stroker cam, DSS forged bottem end, stock block. Compression is somewhere around 10.3:1-10.5:1. 30LB injectors, in tank 340LPH pump, 70MM MAS. SCT Chip/dyno tune Tremec TKO 600. Made 388 to the wheels 3 years ago when put together.

I just picked up a used Vortech S trim. I'm thinking I will only be able to get away with like 4-5 pounds of boost...I wanna stay safe, not a track car. Looking for some input from people who know:

1. 60 pound injectors? Siemens Deka 80's (easy to tune on a 302/331)


2. Do i need a new MAS...or can a tuner just work with my current one once I put bigger injectors in?
You'll likely need a bigger maf as your probably close to pegging what you have I would imagine.
3. How do I calculate what pulleys I need? The kit was sold to me as "comes with upgraded 10 rib 10 pound pulleys setup"....I thought boost varied motor to motor based on components? The only thing you can calculate off of the crank and blower pulley diameters is the impeller rpm. Actual PSI observed is a live testing thing.

4. Can i keep this on 93 and be safe...or do i NEED a meth kit? (really dont want one). With 5-6 pounds you won't NEED meth, however I doubt you'll stay at that boost level for long and therefore Meth would be smart.
5. Can anyone suggest a GOOD/EXPERT tuner near the New Orleans Louisiana area (within several hours) that wont blow my #### up tuning this? My previous tuner for this N/A-nitrous setup has a 56 month wait, and their lead guy i think is no longer there...don't trust the work I have been seeing coming out of there since. Decipha at EFIdynotuning is in New Orleans and I've heard nothing but good things.

6. Any knowledge anyone wanna drop on me being the first time ever dealing with boost? I am assuming I drop in bigger injectors, bolt the thing up once I determine pulleys...then drag it to a dyno....I missing something? Since your not tuning yourself, that pretty much sums it up. You've got the fuel covered with the 340 pump, you'll want to consider going one step colder plugs and tighten gap slightly.

Thanks Guys.
thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Man....I can not say thank you enough. That is EXACTLY the help I was looking for to point me in the right direction. I'm going to look into that dyno shop as well. Thanks a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Follow up questions if I can.

I am waiting on a call back from EFIdynotuning. But I was also told about JMS performance. I had a phone consult with them and this is basically what i was told:

1. Go 60lb injectors. You can go 80 if they are the same price, but harder to tune for streetability
2. get a Pro-M meter for blown applications, calibrated for the injector size you buy, and get the optional "30 point calibration sheet"
3. "the fuel lines in foxbody are small. you need to upgrade the fuel rails, and even with he 340 in tank pump..we suggest adding a 340 in-line pump on top of that" what???? really??
4. 8 PSI is probably your max without meth, E85. expect 500+ to the wheels and you are in block destruction territory and would need to be very careful of getting "bad gas" at a gas station...carry a can of octane boost around.

Thoughts on this conversation?
 

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Decide on a tuner and follow their suggestions for maf and injectors.
I would expect a single 340L in tank pump to be enough as long as it has upgraded wiring to it.
You are in that area where lines and rails might need to be replaced although I would think you would be fine with the stock stuff.
There is no magic number for the stock block. Some last with 500+ rwhp some crack with much less. High rpms and poor tunes are bad for the stock block
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Decide on a tuner and follow their suggestions for maf and injectors.
I would expect a single 340L in tank pump to be enough as long as it has upgraded wiring to it.
You are in that area where lines and rails might need to be replaced although I would think you would be fine with the stock stuff.
There is no magic number for the stock block. Some last with 500+ rwhp some crack with much less. High rpms and poor tunes are bad for the stock block
Yep..the block stuff I pretty much knew. It's like flipping a coin. I'll probably upgrade the fuel rails to be safe...but I feel like a second pump is just overkill. What do you mean upgraded wiring? It is an aeromotive in-tank that was designed to install just like the factory pump.

The injectors and Meter I'll go with what they tell me to do.

So it all boils down to these Fuel supply questions at this point then. Everything I am ready shows/says this pump should be fine as is??

Oh...opinions on used vs new injectors? Sounds like the meter I NEED to get brand new cause I need it calibrated right and to get that sheet from them.
 

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you will be fine with 80 injectors i tune a foxbody with 80s with a pms with si trim blower works and runs like stock thu a pms and i also tune my 94 cobra with 95# injectors with pms with stock engine, and ysi blower runs like stock
 

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Well...the second you said E85 everything changes.

340...would MAYBE get there on pump gas, i have a similar build, going E85, I'm going with a 525 hellcat pump, then i can use BAP if i need more headroom.

They just don't want you to show up, and have to cut your tune short because not enough fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well...the second you said E85 everything changes.

340...would MAYBE get there on pump gas, i have a similar build, going E85, I'm going with a 525 hellcat pump, then i can use BAP if i need more headroom.

They just don't want you to show up, and have to cut your tune short because not enough fuel.
I will NOT be going E85....pump gas only.

Looks like i need to upgrade the stock fuel rails, and I seeing people talking about upgrading the wiring or the 340 doesnt work to full potential????
 

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60lb injectors are plenty for your set up but new or used injectors I would have them flowed the extra $80-$100 well worth the cost.
Your stock wiring for the fuel pump will work with a 340 in tank pump no problem and don't need an inline pump with a 340 in tank pump.
Stock fuel lines and rails will work with 93 octane 60lb injectors and 340 pump with 4-5 lbs of boost.
A mass air meter calibrated to 42lb or up up to 60lb will work but any calibration will need to be tuned with big injectors. I would suggest towing the car to be tuned after bigger injectors are installed don't try to drive without tuning.
Change to 2 steps colder than stock spark plugs and gap them to .028
Trying to get to 4-5lbs of boost with a vortech v-1/v-2 will require a 3.8" to 4" upper pulley and a 6.87" lower pulley and that also depends on the rpm of the engine but usually an efi sbf street car power falls off around 6000 rpm.
Don't need a water methanol kit
 

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60lb injectors are plenty for your set up but new or used injectors I would have them flowed the extra $80-$100 well worth the cost.
Your stock wiring for the fuel pump will work with a 340 in tank pump no problem and don't need an inline pump with a 340 in tank pump.
Stock fuel lines and rails will work with 93 octane 60lb injectors and 340 pump with 4-5 lbs of boost.
A mass air meter calibrated to 42lb or up up to 60lb will work but any calibration will need to be tuned with big injectors. I would suggest towing the car to be tuned after bigger injectors are installed don't try to drive without tuning.
Change to 2 steps colder than stock spark plugs and gap them to .028
Trying to get to 4-5lbs of boost with a vortech v-1/v-2 will require a 3.8" to 4" upper pulley and a 6.87" lower pulley and that also depends on the rpm of the engine but usually an efi sbf street car power falls off around 6000 rpm.
Don't need a water methanol kit
Pretty spot on here. Very similar to an old set up of mine. But, IMO, buy Brand new Siemens Deka or Holley 60’s. You’re also not going to stay at 4-5 lbs of boost. Not gonna happen. Maybe think about bigger fuel lines and rails so you’re ready for more boost.
 

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Go to efidynotuning. Mike will set you up well. You can go to there web page and read everything he suggest and why.

The maf cal'd for any inj. is B.S. Buy a maf based on your hp goals. They will send you a 30 point maf curve. Your tuner will need this info. You will need a fuel reg. that is 1 to 1.
 
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