Ford Mustang Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I used to be an avid open tracker back East. Since I moved out to Cali 7 years ago, I've been out of the scene. I am now looking to get back into the action but want a Dead Reliable, High HP/TQ N/A motor that will handle the routine abuse it will be receiving. I want something with much better power than the 4.6 DOHC. All options considered and a budget of about 7k.

We all know about the glass jaw of the 4.6 DOHC. I blew up two different motors, one at Limerock and one at Summitt Point. Both oil/starvation pump gear failures due to pot metal design and harmonics.

My platform is a 96 Mystic w/full cage, Griggs front MM/rear and Brembo BB setup.

What would you pick and why? Thanks for the replies in advance!
:salute:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Coyote Racing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
The Coyote is 400hp and weighs 430, which is 10 heavier than a SOHC WITH an aluminum block and around 20lbs heavier than an LS3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
You did not say if you have to make it pass emissions.If so then you will be looking and planning alittle harder.Stan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
You did not say if you have to make it pass emissions.If so then you will be looking and planning alittle harder.Stan
Emissions not an issue, ready to make it a dedicated track only car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Man , i am in same boat.
Looking heavily at the new 5.0
I will be running in nasa's american iron
I have a '98 svt, full cage, full MM maximum grip box, stock motor except for LTHs, msking about 290/290 to the wheels

I could possibly get off cheaper with heads (b-to-c swap), P&P, cams and tune, . . .
My short block was supposedly rebuilt 10,000 miles ago, but I still ain't sure.
If that got me to about 345/345, I'd be SET.
But i am scared of investing $3-4k, and either having it come up short, or grenading shortly thereafter.

I heard something about them turning the new coyote 90 degrees on it's side on the dyno, and running it, to simulate the oil starvation of a long 1-G sweeper, and it held up flawlessly.

Plus it is brand new and should come with a warranty for a year

New motors are going for ~$6,149, and ~$1,549 for the harness, ecu, etc.

May still need a different alternator, etc, . . . And who knows what else

Looking and debating, . . .
Doc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
I'd have to see that to believe it.

from :
this link
look at 2nd-to-last, and 3rd-to-last paragraphs :


Down in the depths of the engine, designers labored to optimize oil control to ensure lubrication under severe conditions while minimizing losses due to oil drag. In order to visually inspect how oil drainback would occur under high lateral acceleration, engineers installed clear camshaft covers on a prototype engine, which was rotated 90 degrees onto its side then run on the dyno.

With this set up, engineers observed the actual oil drain paths that would likely occur under racing or extreme track-day conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,022 Posts
I dont have any experience with the 4.6 stuff, but you can build a 400hp 347 that only needs 6500 rpm and makes power all the way down at 2500 rpm.

I have a pretty well built solid roller 347 that runs on pump gas and makes 411rwhp 395rwtq (on a VERY safe tune). I wouldnt be worried about flogging it all day at the road course, which is why I went N/A.

i know some diehards will disagree with it, but the LSX series are really hard to beat in regards to power for $$, and you would prob be able to make 450hp for way under $7k total.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
662 Posts
from :
this link
look at 2nd-to-last, and 3rd-to-last paragraphs :


Down in the depths of the engine, designers labored to optimize oil control to ensure lubrication under severe conditions while minimizing losses due to oil drag. In order to visually inspect how oil drainback would occur under high lateral acceleration, engineers installed clear camshaft covers on a prototype engine, which was rotated 90 degrees onto its side then run on the dyno.

With this set up, engineers observed the actual oil drain paths that would likely occur under racing or extreme track-day conditions.
I wonder how they kept enough oil under the pickup to not kill the engine.... :eeek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,425 Posts
I wonder how they kept enough oil under the pickup to not kill the engine.... :eeek:
They had to be running the prototype with a dry sump to turn it 90 degrees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,425 Posts
Isn't that cheating.....it's not like the stangs are going to be sporting the dry sump :rofl:
It ain't like they are going to be running at 90* either. Not sure what they were trying to learn with that exercise. I don't see any real world information being gained from running an engine at that extreme angle.

Would be nice to know if they designed it to prevent oil starvation at a realistic high lateral G though. Something the newer LS engines are bad for. The basic rule of thumb being quoted on the LS3 is if you are going to run DOT R compounds or stickier you need a dry sump system or you're gonna blow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,133 Posts
I'd run the crate 5.0. Simply a stunning engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
For the money it's hard to beat a 351w. Parts are available, and you can easily remain smog legal in CA if you need to run it on the street.

As someone stated earlier, a 331 is always a good choice as well. I bought a 95 Cobra to dedicate to open track because of my concern around blowing up my 04 Cobra. I have a 306 in it now, but am planning the replacement for it to keep up with some buddies dropping an LS1 in an RX-7.

All things being considered a 331 is way easier, but the added cubes of the 351 would be nice.

Just my $.02

Great pic by the way. That could be a mirror image of mine minus the hood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
No dry sump? Try an Accusump. Works for any engine. I installed one on my 521 big block after noting the oil pressure dropping to zero during an autocross! No more oil pressure problems, even at Daytona's 24 hour course or at Sebring.

BTW the so-called road race pans for the 460-based engine don't work for road racing or anything else. I tried the trap doors, the baffles, the pickup-to-pan distances, the extra quart, one quart low... Nothing helped. Finally, the Accusump.

I've watched 4.6s and small blocks starve and self-destruct at Sebring, unless they were equipped with a dry- or Accu-sump.

No, I have no financial interest there - just passing along one way to preserve one's engine.

Having said that, the Coyote does look like a nifty piece.

Tom
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top