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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I data logged a few Inlet Air Temps while cruising down the highway at 70-85mph with no intercooler and got the following.
Ambient Air Temps: 65 degrees F
Inlet Air Temps: 156 to 167 degrees F. That's basically 100 degrees F over ambient. As a comparison with the Intercooler on but not on the same day, I normally see 12 to 20 degrees above ambient while cruising down the highway.

Thought this was a little crazy but here it is. That F1 is spinning up pretty fast in 1.625 seconds. Actually, this means nothing.
Time Stamp: 727.836 to 729.461 = 1.625 seconds
RPM range: 4180 to 4838 = 658 total RPM Band
Boost: -9.0 inches of vacuum to 16.37 PSI.

Like I said in the title, mindless stuff that means nothing.

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Michael Plummer
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Keep this in mind. With my intercooler installed the ambient air coming off or coming out the back of the intercooler is now the new ambient air that cools my radiator. That's 65 degrees F in and 165 degrees out is now cooling my radiator. Again, mindless stuff with air temperatures.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I can tell you when I took the Air to Air off my car it ran so much cooler, I didn't have much choice.
I can relate. The race intercoolers from ProCharger with their huge end tanks on the top and bottom are the issue.
 

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A/W is the way to go. I don't even have a heat exchanger on mine on the street - it makes more than enough power to kill yourself quickly without it. My tank is my center console armrest - I can literally look down and see if the pump's working, and have a little extra comfort in the car. Your car would pick up quite a bit, I'd bet, esp. with ice in the tank.

Nice dyno on the Grand Cherokee BTW - I have a 2014 as well. Love it. Will miss it when the lease is up. But perhaps will love the next one even more.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
A/W is the way to go. I don't even have a heat exchanger on mine on the street - it makes more than enough power to kill yourself quickly without it. My tank is my center console armrest - I can literally look down and see if the pump's working, and have a little extra comfort in the car. Your car would pick up quite a bit, I'd bet, esp. with ice in the tank.

Nice dyno on the Grand Cherokee BTW - I have a 2014 as well. Love it. Will miss it when the lease is up. But perhaps will love the next one even more.
Hi Alex,
Air to Water would be nice but there's no place to put it in my car. Plus, you have the ability to make all those cool gadgets and I don't. My buddy Randy was concerned about high how the IATs got when cruising down the highway and around town. He wanted to compare his IATs from his 2V Vortech S-trim which were approx. 100+ degrees over ambient (His testing not done on the same day as mine).

Jeep: This is my 3rd Grand Cherokee Overland and I love them. Decided to try a few bolt-ons and found that the cat-back gained nothing and a larger throttle body gained nothing on the dyno. I knew better but the people on those forums think every bolt-on works. I had to purchase, test and document to prove my point. BTW, a CAI kit works great on the larger 5.7 Hemi engines.

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Michael Plummer
 

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Yeah, packaging is the trick. The primary reason why I built my own core was that all the available cores had air flowing in one direction at a time, necessitating a voluminous space on either side. I didn't have room for that. In my setup, air can travel left to right and front to back; making it out of 140 feet of 1/4" copper tubing helped with the efficiency, but materials cost was pretty high, never mind manufacturing cost (Whipple's copper under blower cooler costs close to $7,000 - but it's a work of art, and marked up accordingly). How about a Vortech Mondo? Or is it too tall?
 

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If Michael does that and still pulls 800+ rwhp on 93 octane pump gas, I'll convert to the church of meth.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
haha I mean there's some weight savings to be had there too right
The weight savings is basically the interccoler but you also have to consider the tubing added to get the air from driver's side to passenger side of the car. Don't think weight saving is going to help. I will try just the water/methanol injection own its own and see what kind of results I get.

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Michael Plummer
 

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If Michael does that and still pulls 800+ rwhp on 93 octane pump gas, I'll convert to the church of meth.
Been done a few times. Personally on the stuff we have messed with, 2 nozzles in the 825-850 rwhp can get temperamental depending on how hard your leaning on it, but will live if your not careless.
 

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I'd imagine the tuning window would get pretty small; I wonder if anyone's done it through an auto under 400 ci?

The best I ran was 137 mph (so far) on straight 93 @ 3443 lbs. But my blower's small and my rpm range rather low - a slightly bigger cam was promised to net me "50 hp, at least." I've got some pieces for a pumpless meth kit, but haven't had the drive to install them.

I'm in for Michael's results and data.
 

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I'd imagine the tuning window would get pretty small; I wonder if anyone's done it through an auto under 400 ci?
1991 Mustang LX Coupe - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine


This car from back in the day still runs that set up, only difference it has a snow kit now vs. the Mr. Freeze kit from back then. He's been 8.90's @153 straight pump gas and meth injection. This is just the documented one, every car we've done that with has been an 8.2 deck based motor. Stuff flat out works.

Actually, this one also made over 800 rwhp on pump with the snow

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1311-1993-ford-mustang-lx-witness-perfection/

There are a few others, these are just the ones that were documented. These ran boost juice, some others if we are leaning on them harder with the tune we'll use 75/25 M1/water

We actually were totally against using it. One day we were tuning a car and the guy kept pushing us saying "Anderson says it should take this much timing". So as per his requests and against our advice we kept leaning on it. Needless to say, it has been on every single car we put together since.

You should see the tune with Meth on C-16. You probably wouldn't believe how much timing we've ran like that lol...(again at car owners request....)
 

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The weight savings is basically the interccoler but you also have to consider the tubing added to get the air from driver's side to passenger side of the car. Don't think weight saving is going to help. I will try just the water/methanol injection own its own and see what kind of results I get.

Thanks
Michael Plummer
Skip the mix and just inject straight meth and you'll be tossing that ic away quick..

There's ton of options out there, Just make sure the pump in whatever kit you go with can handle straight meth. I've personally used kits from these two places https://www.alkycontrol.com/ and DevilsOwn Methanol Injection : Water Injection - DevilsOwn Injection with great success. Granted these were used on grand nationals, syclones, and typhoons but non the less you'll get great results I'm sure.

Looking forward to your results
 

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freezy - Do you know what those cars weighed? In my case, I was able to add a few degrees of timing with Q16, which supposedly makes more power on it's own, too - that's how it ran 140.09 mph. I'm already pretty close to max power timing N/A. My setup made max power N/A at 25 degrees indicated (which I later found to be 3 degrees off - so 28 degrees actual timing). On pump gas, 15 degrees indicated (18 actual) is max safe timing, as tested on the dyno and track by looking at plugs. With a little octane boost, 17 degrees is possible - 1 can of Lucas is sufficient, but makes plug reading a pain in the ass.

On Q16, I got up to 19 degrees indicated (22 actual) - only 6 degrees shy of max. I'm sure I could've pushed it further, but gains were diminishing.

The whole point of all that info is I wonder if meth would somehow provide more power than Q since the timing advantages are diminishing the closer I get to max timing.

Michael - sorry for the hijack.
 

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1991 Mustang LX Coupe - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine


This car from back in the day still runs that set up, only difference it has a snow kit now vs. the Mr. Freeze kit from back then. He's been 8.90's @153 straight pump gas and meth injection. This is just the documented one, every car we've done that with has been an 8.2 deck based motor. Stuff flat out works.

Actually, this one also made over 800 rwhp on pump with the snow

1993 Ford Mustang LX - Witness Perfection - 5.0 Mustang Magazine

There are a few others, these are just the ones that were documented. These ran boost juice, some others if we are leaning on them harder with the tune we'll use 75/25 M1/water

We actually were totally against using it. One day we were tuning a car and the guy kept pushing us saying "Anderson says it should take this much timing". So as per his requests and against our advice we kept leaning on it. Needless to say, it has been on every single car we put together since.

You should see the tune with Meth on C-16. You probably wouldn't believe how much timing we've ran like that lol...(again at car owners request....)
Brian knowing my situation non intercooled with the Ysi , ive been seriously considering using the meth as an intercooler for myself. Stumbled on this thread from someone on stangnet that saw it. Gonna talk to Kris again and see what he thinks. Nick was on board. I think its the perfect Scenario in my case. Put a snow kit on it and be done.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Q) Skip the mix and just inject straight meth and you'll be tossing that ic away quick..
A) Due to safety reasons, I don't run 100% methanol. Instead I use a mix of 30/70 of water to methanol.

Q) There's ton of options out there, Just make sure the pump in whatever kit you go with can handle straight meth. I've personally used kits from these two places https://www.alkycontrol.com/ and DevilsOwn Methanol Injection : Water Injection - DevilsOwn Injection with great success.
A) All pumps sold by any major Water/Methanol manufacturer should be able to handle 100% Methanol. I use to be the Northeast Distributor for Snow Performance's Water/Methanol product line and it's my preference to run Snow Performance parts.

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Michael Plummer
 

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My motor has been together for 5 years and 50k miles partly because of the kit I got from you.

My sct chip was burned for a 3.12 pulley. I swapped it out for a 2.85 with no re-tune (21d total) and the engine hung right in there. AFR was right around 11.5 up top with the 3 lb increase.

No way I could have done that w/o the kit.
 
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