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Discussion Starter #1
Honest input from you racer types. Is it OK or do you have to have shoulders like Arnie? Soo much cleaner without it.
 

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Is that just because it was a Mustang? My family used to have a Toyota Cressida wagon overseas that was manual, and turning it was a ***** really only when it wasn't moving. The trick was to begin your turns before you had come to a stop. Of course, that car was probably 3/4 the weight of a Mustang, mebbe less.
 

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I have the flaming rivers rack on my car and im happy with the steering feel. It takes some getting used to. With a better front end setup than what a stock mustang has it would be nice like a MM kmember. Most people dont like it at all though, almost everyone who drives my car, but i hated the one finger stock steering. Its all a matter of tastes. Have you ever driven anything with manual steering most people havent and the first time the turn try to turn it they want the power steering back. But you dont have to be buff to drive it i weigh in at 130lb and 6.0' so if i can handle it around an autox anyone should be able to.
 

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For autocross you want quicker steering. A manual steering gives up quickness in favor of less steering effort by way of a lower ratio. Being able to "handle it" is far different from it being an effective steering setup for autocross. Once you add camber and caster to your front end, steering becomes a bit more heavy, throw in some 10.5" wheels with sticky tires and the steering effort goes up once again. MY 88 coupe was driveable with manual steering, partly because I ran very skinny tires. Even so a 3000# drag car with manual steering is going to steer much harder than a 2300# Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. A 2600# 4 cylinder Fox coupe will steer a bit easier but will still have slower, heavier steering than a 3300# GT with power steering.
 

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green94_gt said:
But what about the quick ratio? I mean how many years did they have manual steering? I think I could handle it..
The quick ratio makes it HARDER to steer. All of those years were they had manual steering was with skinny tires that didnt grip.
I have a manual rack that is equivalent to FRs quick steer rack and I absolutely hate it. I rarely drive my car because of it. I know I would not be able to autocross or to any OT events because of the heavy and slow steering below 30/40 mph. And thats why I have not done any events like I planned.

At cruising speed the manual rack is not really noticable, you get use to it.
Just dont do it.
 

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I have manual steering in my 89 S10 riverside. With me a friend, and 1/4 tank of gas i weighed in at exactly 3000lbs. Manual steering isnt bad. But i will keep power steering ony my mustang. Just loose everything else. ;)
 

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I run manual steering on my notch (flaming river standard ratio kit), and I auto-x is pretty regularly and its not that bad at all!

one of my buddies runs my car also, and so does his girlfriend. They are both 1/2 my size (I'm 6'5" 200lbs, they are like 5'2" 120lbs) and neither of them had ANY problems driving my car around the track. My buddy was 2 seconds faster than me, and she was 3 seconds slower than me per lap. Our times were the best in our class (street tire) and we beat several cars in STS and CSP classes

I prefer the feel of the manual to that of power, only time it is annoying is parallel parking, and doing u-turns and the cell phone starts ringing ;)

the car has FMS 'b' springs, bilstein shocks/struts, and MM c/c plates. 245/50R16 tires on pony rims
 

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So I should get a standard ratio rack not the quick ratio? I really want the manual rack. I called flaming river and talked to several shops and they all said the manual rack has a better road feel, less slope..and what about alumium rack bushing?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Manual Steering "Feel"

Well I was mainly asking to find out for street and track day Road Racing. When my car ends up at the track it will be at thunder hill, sears and buttonwillow. I will be running 255's at all 4 corners and want to know if it is a better "Feel." The muscle isn't an issue I am 6'3" 240lbs I don't think power will be an issue ,it is the feedback that I am curious about. What are the numbers on standard vs. Quick?

For you Auto-x boys what constitutes a lot of steering wheel travel?
1/2 turn 2/3?......1/4......................
 

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I don't need to turn the wheel very much at all to get around most turns on the track, maybe 1/4 of a rotation of the wheel at most, any more than that and it just starts to scrub the tires - which you can feel start to happen with the manual rack, its hard to describe.

on the street it is a very nice tight feel to the car, there's enough slop built in so that you arent constantly fighting the wheel over a really rough road, but there's no so much that you are driving the car like a cartoon character holding the car straight
 

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You can drive a car with manual steering, but you can drive it better with power steering. The reason is you can steer faster with power assist. In auto-x you need to steer fast in slaloms, and when you get oversteer. Road racing doesn't have slaloms, but you can still get loose and if you drop 2 wheels off in a slow turn being able to steer quicker can be a big help.

I ran a friends 66 Mustang with manual steering and 12" wide slicks at the Northeast Divisional autocross. It was impossible to brake & turn at the same time- use much of the braking capability and you physically can't turn the wheel. And I lost more time than you'd believe due to the slow steering. The owner still isn't convinced power steering is a good investment. Maybe after he runs my car he will be...

Aluminum rack bushings are a good idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Power Assist

So let me ask you steering afficianoto's what is the difference technically between power assist and full power. What is in the the fox.
It may be an obvious question but I have never had any issues with steering in any of my cars/trucks so I never had to read or learn anything about it. And, that's in 20 years of driving...Go Figure!
 

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For you Auto-x boys what constitutes a lot of steering wheel travel?
1/2 turn 2/3?......1/4......................
My car has exceptionally fast steering and I can't remember turning the wheel more than 1/4 turn on course, but a bit more than 1/2 turn is lock to lock.

I can't express how much easier the car is to autocross with the faster ratio.

A friend of mine has a EM Corvette which only weighs ~2050lbs and has only 42% front weight bias. He tried manual steering and didn't even make it through one two day event becuase it was so hard to steer on course.

HTH,

DaveW
 
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