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Discussion Starter #1
I am committed to buy this panhard bar...I was rather impulsive but the price was right. This car is my dd.

Here's my 98 vert's setup:
17x9 W/255/40, STB, FRPP B springs & poly isolators, FL SFC's, 04 A arms with x2's & poly graphite, offset rack bushings; bbk u/lca, mm 4 point bar with harness bar. stock sways with poly bushings, 04 cobra brake conversion. Is this too much of a kludged together package? I'm on a tight budget and have tried to piece together a decent suspension. It feels good, but I felt that the rear was moving around too much @ 65+ on sweepers (kinda oscillating)

Suggestions, please?
 

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I take it you're getting this used from somewhere? I'm pretty sure Kenny Brown went out of business a year or two ago.

Aren't the BBK rear control arms all poly bushings? If so, adding the panhard bar is just going to add even more bind to what you've already got going on back there. I would highly recommend NOT installing that panhard bar with the control arms you're running.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, NIB NOS

Sadly I committed to buying this. what about the single upper like some folks talk about, and if so which arm do ya pull? sounds a little scary, but...
 

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I take it you're getting this used from somewhere? I'm pretty sure Kenny Brown went out of business a year or two ago.

Aren't the BBK rear control arms all poly bushings? If so, adding the panhard bar is just going to add even more bind to what you've already got going on back there. I would highly recommend NOT installing that panhard bar with the control arms you're running.
it seems like Kenny Brown is still around... http://www.kennybrown.com/shopkb ... He had some health issues and was closed up temporarily, but seems to be up and running to a certain degree at the moment...

However, what control arms/bushing style are recommended with a panhard bar? What about with a watts link?
 

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However, what control arms/bushing style are recommended with a panhard bar? What about with a watts link?
A Watts will have the same issues as a Panhard bar on a Quadralink suspension.

If you're going to run upper arms, you want the SOFTEST bushings in there. Keep your factory upper arms if you still have them. If not, trade your aftermarket upper arms to someone who has factory arms and who doesn't understand Mustang rear suspensions, or who just wants to drag race.

I'm not sure it matters what bushings you have in the lower arms -- it's the upper arms and Watts/Panhard that will be fighting each other, and the upper arms will loose. Expect them to live a short, violent life if you opentrack the car.

For folks that push their car hard on an open track, the move from upper arm plus Panhard to torque Arm (or 3rd link,) plus Panhard is generally a quick one. They only keep the upper arms because they have to.

The same goes for pulling one upper arm, it'll get beat on pretty hard, having to take 100" of the rear end's torque, but at least it isn't fighting the other upper arm AND the Panhard bar.
 

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A Watts will have the same issues as a Panhard bar on a Quadralink suspension.

If you're going to run upper arms, you want the SOFTEST bushings in there. Keep your factory upper arms if you still have them. If not, trade your aftermarket upper arms to someone who has factory arms and who doesn't understand Mustang rear suspensions, or who just wants to drag race.

I'm not sure it matters what bushings you have in the lower arms -- it's the upper arms and Watts/Panhard that will be fighting each other, and the upper arms will loose. Expect them to live a short, violent life if you opentrack the car.
Kool. Ive got the FRPP/replacement uppers in mine, so I guess no issues for me then. Ive got the Lakewood lowers (20150)..
 

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Kool. Ive got the FRPP/replacement uppers in mine, so I guess no issues for me then. Ive got the Lakewood lowers (20150)..
I wouldn't say no issues. You could have issues even with factory uppers (and the FRPP upper bushings are a little stiffer than the factory ones.)

Still, on the street, adding a PHB with factory or near factory uppers isn't likely to have terribly bad issues. On the track, you'll just have to see what happens.

If you do have issues, remember that the accepted method of fixing the rear is to get rid of the upper arms at all costs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I wouldn't say no issues. You could have issues even with factory uppers (and the FRPP upper bushings are a little stiffer than the factory ones.)

Still, on the street, adding a PHB with factory or near factory uppers isn't likely to have terribly bad issues. On the track, you'll just have to see what happens.

If you do have issues, remember that the accepted method of fixing the rear is to get rid of the upper arms at all costs.
Thanks for the advice! So If I save for the torque arm & intall the TA & phb, and pull the upper arms is my best path to a long enjoyable life, I'll wait to put on the PHB till I can afford a TA.
 

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...If you're going to run upper arms, you want the SOFTEST bushings in there.

it's the upper arms and Watts/Panhard that will be fighting each other, and the upper arms will loose. Expect them to live a short, violent life if you opentrack the car.
Would an upper arm with a spherical bearing in one or both ends help the situation? It seems to me that this would eliminate the binding but I'm sure I'm missing something.
 

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Would an upper arm with a spherical bearing in one or both ends help the situation?
You're talking about running a single upper arm with a PHB? (A poor-man's 3-link?)

It can work, but the chassis mount takes a terrific beating, particularly in a high-horsepower car with sticky tires. It's not something I'd care to do long-term.

It seems to me that this would eliminate the binding but I'm sure I'm missing something.
With one arm, there's not much bind. With two, there's significant bind, because both the PHB and the upper arms are trying to force the chassis to rotate in different arcs because of body roll.

For the most part, the bind occurs when the arms are trying to be compressed or stretched, so putting rod ends in the arms won't do any good (when using two upper arms.)
 

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You're talking about running a single upper arm with a PHB? (A poor-man's 3-link?)

It can work, but the chassis mount takes a terrific beating, particularly in a high-horsepower car with sticky tires. It's not something I'd care to do long-term.

With one arm, there's not much bind. With two, there's significant bind, because both the PHB and the upper arms are trying to force the chassis to rotate in different arcs because of body roll.

For the most part, the bind occurs when the arms are trying to be compressed or stretched, so putting rod ends in the arms won't do any good (when using two upper arms.)
Sorry, I could have been clearer. Yes, I was asking about using two arms. I don't think I'd like to try a PM3L and your caution on the chassis mount confrirms that. Thank you.

My original thought was the binding and accelerated wear of the upper bushings were the result of a lack of articulation caused, as you said, by the rotation in two different arcs. I had not considered compression or stretching.

I'll leave the MM Panhard Bar in the box until I'm ready to do the torque arm or a proper 3-link as well.
 

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maximum motorsports recommends running stock upper control arms and stock axle bushings when using their panhard bar. i just got done installing new axle bushings and factory upper control arms to replace the ridiculous spherical bushings and adjustable uppers i was running, all in preparation for installing my panhard bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just got out from under the car. I have the bbk uppers with poly bushings, but the axle side rubber bushings are WASTED. If I put the stock rubber arms back in with the not so great axle bushings do you think it would be safe to run the KB PHB? or maybe a MM depending on helping a brother out..
 

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I just got out from under the car. I have the bbk uppers with poly bushings, but the axle side rubber bushings are WASTED. If I put the stock rubber arms back in with the not so great axle bushings do you think it would be safe to run the KB PHB? or maybe a MM depending on helping a brother out..
I would replace the bushings on the axle housing with some stock replacement FORD (FRPP) bushings. Part Number: M-4050-B.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I would replace the bushings on the axle housing with some stock replacement FORD (FRPP) bushings. Part Number: M-4050-B.

Thanks man! Are those soft bushings?
 
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