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Discussion Starter #1
I tried sending Matt Cramer a PM but his inbox is full....

Here goes. I think I have decided to go the MS route with my '93 coupe. Currently, the car has a H/C/I 302 with supporting injectors, MAF and a crappy tune done locally. Future plans may include a 9.5 deck engine and some boost so I want room to grow. I did order a wide band that should be here next week, to see what the car is currently doing (although I am 99% sure it is rich at idle, surging and just doesn't run as well as it should). I believe I have the patience and enough knowledge to tackle the tuning if the system is user friendly, which from what I have read it is. I would like to retain as much of the factory harness/sensors/etc. as I can. Would you recommend the MSPNP? If so, what is the pricing like for everything I would need to get started? Thanks in advance.

Kevin
 

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So to start, any of the common modern Megasquirt PNP systems would allow you to retain your factory harness, sensors, and ignition system, though you'll most likely not end up using the factory O2's. Some people like to use the MAF sensor as it is a great tool for quickly and accurately measuring airflow rather than using speed density calculations which are slightly more time consuming to tune. I use MAF on one car and Speed Density on another and have no big issue with either (both forced induction).

That said, this section is strictly titled "Megasquirt DIYAutoTune Systems". It'd be rude of me to tout systems not made by DIYAutoTune so I'll keep it unbiased.

For what you're wanting (plug-n-play), there is the PNP Gen 2 system offered by DIYAutoTune and another plug-n-play system called PimpXS made by Stinger Performance. Both connect right up to the factory ECU plug/harness, require the connection of a map hose, and connection of a wideband in order to get down to tuning. It really is an hour or less before you're good to go (less if you've done it before).

You can look at the features and pricing from each manufacturer and decide what suits you best.
 

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So download and install the light version to check it out I see. That I can look into. How much does the software/analyzer run?
 

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TS is $59.95
MLV is $29.95

Might be a discount if you buy both at the same time.

BTW, the Lite version is what you download, purchasing the full version give you the key to unlock all the features.

License allows full version use on 3 or 4 computers.

What kind of tuning device is installed now?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The car currently has a SCT 4 bank chip, tuned by a local dyno outfit before I purchased the car. I just feel the car could run much better. Driveability, particularly at low speeds and between shifts sucks. I have done about all I can do without taking the car back to the tuner....more money and married to that is not what I want. Timing was around 13* with the spout out so I dropped that back to 10*, TPS was off, checked for vacuum leaks. I don't have any lights or codes. Any help, pointers or info is greatly appreciated.
 

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I have a megasquirt 2 NON plug n play on a fox mustang. I like it, and it works well for me and I feel that the user interface is pretty intuitive.

At first it can seem a bit overwhelming but after a little bit of time it just clicks and you realize it is actually very very simple.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I guess that get's me thinking....does the check engine light work the same for checking codes or do you go into the MS and retrieve/clear any codes? I have a lot of reading to do, I know.
 

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I guess that get's me thinking....does the check engine light work the same for checking codes or do you go into the MS and retrieve/clear any codes? I have a lot of reading to do, I know.
There are NO codes. It is in many ways a much simpler engine computer and there isn't much to go wrong. It could run the engine with nothing more than an ignition trigger signal, a vac line, a wire to the ignition coil, a wire to the injectors, and a power and ground. So 5 wires and a tube could run an engine. To do it right there is more than that but there is much less to go wrong and I find it very easy to use and deal with.
 

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Also, you do have the ability to tune the engine pretty well with the free versions of tunerstudio and megalog viewer. Most people go ahead and get the paid versions for the "auto-tuning" features that both have, as well as a slew of other features.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I emailed DIY last night and got a nice quick response (Thanks Eddie) this morning stating that a new batch of ECU's should be ready in 1-2 weeks, or less. I will likely place an order early next week.

Maybe not right away but I should be able to sell some of my current pieces(A9L, SCTx4, SCT 90mm Mass Air) to recoup some money right? It seems to be split between guys tuning with speed density and some keeping their mass air. Any advantages or real world info that you guys know to do one over the other?
 

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MAP is a calculation based on Volumetric Efficiency (VE).
MAF is a measurement based on actual air flow.
I found it easier to tune with MAF & it was almost new after attempting to get the A9L to work.
Got the calibration curve from seijirou, then found them all on line.
5.0thunder converted one of his 5.0's to MAF. He can explain why.

If you really are going to buy one of these, register on this forum.
This is where the "real" help is.
The Admin is the firmware developer sanctioned by Bowling & Grippo, the inventors of the Megasquirt.
I asked him to explain the relationship.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=54713
http://www.msextra.com/forums/index.php
 

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Maybe not right away but I should be able to sell some of my current pieces(A9L, SCTx4, SCT 90mm Mass Air) to recoup some money right? It seems to be split between guys tuning with speed density and some keeping their mass air. Any advantages or real world info that you guys know to do one over the other?
To answer the first part, you can sell the A9L/SCT setup and recoup some money definitely. I think good A9L's go for anywhere from 150-200 alone.

MAP is a calculation based on Volumetric Efficiency (VE).
MAF is a measurement based on actual air flow.
I found it easier to tune with MAF.
5.0thunder converted one of his 5.0's to MAF. He can explain why.
Adding to Blown88's point, there are pros/cons to both so you would want to use whatever works best for your setup. It may be beneficial to keep your MAF sensor in case you decide to try and use it in the future, even if you use Speed Density right off the bat.

As stated, the MAF sensor directly measures airflow so the ECU knows exactly how much is entering the engine and can accurately provide the amount of fuel required to achieve whatever Air/Fuel ratio you desire. Speed Density uses a variety of sensors and formulas to "model" or calculate what the airflow "should" be, then provides the fuel to try and match it. By using a MAF sensor, you greatly simplify the calculation with accuracy, reducing the time required to tune by a large percentage.

MAF setups got a bad reputation because with stock ecu's, people are always dealing with matching injectors with "calibrated" maf sensors and having to blow a bunch of money on changes anytime part of their car changed. With standalone systems, once you enter the MAF data that the manufacturer supplies, you can simply make your other changes in the tune itself to compensate for larger/smaller injectors or whatever else changes, eliminating the "calibrated maf" crap. You can keep your SCT maf and use whatever injectors you like with it when using megasquirt.

The downside to MAF setups is how careful you must be with intake plumbing and the small percent of airflow it blocks inside of the intake tube. I would consider these non-issues if you're smart about planning the setup.

I have a turbocharged car that I've tuned on speed density and a roots supercharged car I tune with a MAF sensor, both with megasquirt. My supercharged car uses a GT500 Slot-Style sensor on the "cold air" tube on the suction side of my blower. This is how ford sets them up on all their supercharged cars and it has worked pretty well for me. After dialing in the MAF data (transfer function) in my tune, my fuel table barely has to be touched at all, requiring very little tuning on my end. When I was tuning it with speed density, the fuel calculations were being skewed badly by what I think were false transient pressures created by the blower. It was okay at WOT or steady throttle but throttle transitions really made it freak out. Throwing the maf in there nearly eliminated any tuning effort and the car now runs smooth, which I think is impressive considering it's an old school roots blower designed for a carb with a one-off TBI system on e85. People look at it and have no idea wtf is going on. lol

My turbocharged car did require a lot of time dialing in the fuel table and requires tweaking anytime I make engine hardware changes (cam, heads, etc.) where a maf setup doesn't require those tweaks. What is good about it is that it is only making calculations based on what is directly in the manifold going right into the cylinders so things like boost leaks, idle valve leaks, intake tube changes, blow off valve location, etc. don't matter at all. If you have a leak in your intake tract post-maf, the engine will receive less air than the MAF reads and the fueling gets skewed.

Other upside to SD is the simplicity of the intake system and cost of implementation. Luckily I found my GT500 MAF for a steal at $30 and it can support a lot more power than the supercharged car is making but some people aren't as frugal and go buy some $300 maf and tube so it would add a lot of cost there.

There are a lot of things I could ramble on about so I'll just cut it short here. When you get the ECU, it'll probably be pretty intimidating. The hardware install is a breeze but learning to tune properly has taken me years as a hobbyist. We'll be around to help if you have any questions. Download the software and play with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks so much for the info. I will read up on it a bunch more before I dive in. You are 100% correct that the process is intimidating, however having a nice looking car with a bunch of goodies that runs but not the greatest is pretty frustrating. I am ready for a change and from what I gather in reading along with all of your feedback, this is the way to go.
 

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...
Adding to Blown88's point, there are pros/cons to both so you would want to use whatever works best for your setup. It may be beneficial to keep your MAF sensor in case you decide to try and use it in the future, even if you use Speed Density right off the bat. ....
You explain things like seijirou (the highest compliment for those that don't know him). I'm getting too old & impatient (LOL).
Whitexc
I didn't start off using the MAF, I just left it installed. The 4 wires went to the MS connector but inside, 2 didn't go anywhere. I don't see anything on the MSPNP docs that show how to do it. They have jumpers inside for other things. You can probably can get DIY to wire it "MAF ready" when you order it. It's possible that it's already connected. TS allows you to choose which one to use for primary fuel. I actually use both: MAF for fuel, MAP for spark.

DIYPNP uses the same cpu board (Megasquirt Module) but everything else is different. It was a kit you assemble yourself. Not as problem for me (retired Electrical Engineer). I used to design things to communicate with these for a living before Megasquirt was invented by B&G. This one is just a bit more complex because it's Full Authority Digital Electronic Controller (FADEC). Engine in pic has 4 of these, 2 for main engine, 2 for lift fan.
 

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Lol thanks, I try to be helpful to the newcomers. It's good for the product when there are lots of users.

As for the PNP G2 ECU he's buying, it probably has some spare input that can be used as is. I can double check on that. I had to build the simple circuit within my ECU but no issue.
 
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