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I don't understand the following comment " I have been told by multiple people it was just like the 00r kit which is BS. " The 2000 Mustang Cobra R front brake kit has almost exactly the same piston area as the 1994-98 Mustang Cobra front brake caliper does. I can't see what possible controversy there could be there.

The brake bias percentages from the MM website, which are reprinted in post #88, will not match the values that most people calculate. The calculations on the MM website take into account two other factors.

1) The Varga caliper has a screw running through the middle of the bore for the parking brake function. You must remove the cross sectional area of this screw, when determining the calipers piston area. This is about 59mm^2.

2) The effective brake rotor diameters are used, not the OD of the brake rotors. Calculating the effective rotor diameter accurately is not simple. You have to do an integration problem on the shape of the brake pad. If you take the pads radial height/ divide this by two and subtract this from the rotor's OD, that will be very close to the effective diameter for the rotor.

When doing brake system calculations on a brake system with a sliding caliper, you need to double the piston area for these calipers. This is because the sliding caliper effectively doubles the force which is clamping the brake pads to the rotor. When the pad on the side with the piston pushes against the brake rotor, there is an equal and opposite force conducting through the caliper to the brake pad on the other side of the rotor, which squeezes on the opposite of the rotor. Technically you shouldn't double the piston area of the caliper, you just double the force with which the caliper clamps the rotor, but for our purposes here, the effect is the same.

The brake pedal ratio is completely irrelevant with respect to the brake bias. The pedal ratio only affects the force/travel relationship. You can't analyze the pedal ratio by itself. You must also take into account the amount of assist and travel changes in any servo mechanism. Given that Ford used four different brake pedal ratios and three different assist mechanisms on the SN95 Mustangs, this is far to complication to analyze here.

This looks very promising.

What year range was the 43mm Varga caliper used on a Taurus? It most be post 1993, or I'm sure that Ford would have used this caliper variation on the 1993 Mustang Cobra. It would give it more balanced braking.
 

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I don't understand the following comment " I have been told by multiple people it was just like the 00r kit which is BS. " The 2000 Mustang Cobra R front brake kit has almost exactly the same piston area as the 1994-98 Mustang Cobra front brake caliper does. I can't see what possible controversy there could be there.
My statement was in regards to the ATS caliper setup being discussed here and had absolutely nothing to do with the 94-98 cobra brakes.

To further clarify I have brought up the brake bias issue caused by the larger ATS caliper pistons with people selling "bolt on kits" on Facebook and craigslist only to be told the ATS caliper was basically the same as the 00r kit and the bias is the same.

Thank you for everything else you posted directed at me or not. It's always nice to hear from people who unlike me know exactly what they are talking about.
 

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What year range was the 43mm Varga caliper used on a Taurus? It most be post 1993, or I'm sure that Ford would have used this caliper variation on the 1993 Mustang Cobra. It would give it more balanced braking.
1993 - 2000 Taurus/Sable/Continental.

I purchased Cardone part number 18B4537 for the test fit. The opposite side is 18B4536

I don't understand the following comment " I have been told by multiple people it was just like the 00r kit which is BS. " The 2000 Mustang Cobra R front brake kit has almost exactly the same piston area as the 1994-98 Mustang Cobra front brake caliper does. I can't see what possible controversy there could be there.
I think the poster was referring to the statement about the ATS Brembos being identical to the 00R brembo brakes. We know this isn't the case, but it is something i've seen frequently mentioned when considering how these brakes affect bias.
 

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Well, damn it. Now I have a brand new set of Power Stop S4824A that I need to get rid of.

I believe that the new edge 1999-2004 master cylinders (with traction control) are also 1-1/16.
 

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Anyone sell the specific inserts and pre-machined calipers yet? I really want 4 piston front setups but with options like these spending $1200 for Cobra R specific ones seems stupid.
 

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Lowranger on svtperformance.com sells a kit. Just search the forum for ATS kit and you’ll find the thread. I’ll be purchasing a set Monday or Tuesday.
 

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I just ordered a set of the Taurus rear calipers and will be installing them soon, wonder if should do a before and after test to see how much of an improvement they make, car isn’t currently running so I’d have to wait until I finish putting the car back together.
 

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As far as i know, nobody has yet to actually install the Taurus rear calipers on the Mustang yet with any setup, let alone with the ATS fronts.

I've only revealed that info about the 43mm units with this particular thread, and mentioned it in a couple other forums. I don't think anyone has tried it out yet and given any sort of feedback.
 

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Looks like my math is wrong. 8057mm^2 is incorrect. Of course, the new format won't let me edit my mistake.

Disregard the above post and lets start over.

Lets do a factory 94-98 Cobra setup. 2-piston, 38mm calipers up front, single 38mm rear. Brake bias is 70/30 according to the MM link.

4536mm^2 front calipers + 2268mm^2 rear calipers for a total of 6804mm^2 total surface area.
15/16" bore MC = 445mm^2
Total ratio of 15.2:1.

Now, this proposed ATS/43mm caliper setup. I calculate out a bias of 75%/25%.

5542mm^2 front/2904mm^2 rear for a total of 8846mm^2
1 1/16" bore MC = 572mm^2

with 1 1/16" bore it's 15.5:1
The above assumes pedal geometry remains the same between fox and 94-95 Cobra. That's pretty darn close.


I also ran a brake bias calc and got 75% front/25% rear.

So....
ATS Brembo/13" rotor
Taurus 43mm/11.65" rotor
1 1/16" MC
75/25 bias.

Looks viable. Someone want to check my math?

I'll likely try this setup, but right now my engine is out of the car for an upgrade, and i'm installing an MM k-member setup, so i'll be ironing out those bugs for a while. Changing brakes/MC likely will have to wait.
I'm just curious as to how the brake bias would be/look if one were to use Taurus 43mm/11.65 rotor with 94-98 or 99-04 cobra front brake. Calculating the brake bias is way out of my knowledge on how to do it. If anyone can help it would greatly appreciated.
 

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Sorry for a bit of a necropost guys. But just looking for some clarification as I'm about to install everything. Do the stock Mustang brake lines bolt up to the ATS Brembos? I haven't purchased braided lines yet, and wasn't planning to for another month or so
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Sorry for a bit of a necropost guys. But just looking for some clarification as I'm about to install everything. Do the stock Mustang brake lines bolt up to the ATS Brembos? I haven't purchased braided lines yet, and wasn't planning to for another month or so
I am pretty sure the banjo bolt is different so you would need to change that.
 

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As far as i know, nobody has yet to actually install the Taurus rear calipers on the Mustang yet with any setup, let alone with the ATS fronts.
FWIW, I tried to mount the 44mm Turbo Coupe Vargas to my '86 using both the sn95 Cobra axle mount and a NRC Cobra Fox length axle mount. No way for an 11.65" rotor to fit the caliper mouth. It just wasn't big enough and the fastener spacing was wrong. I think a little grinding on the caliper mouth would have been enough to allow the rotor to clear, but the mounting spacing and off-set would have required redesigned axle flanges. Not worth it when right next to me was a 38mm Cobra caliper that fit and had adequate braking bias for my 14" Stop Tech ST40 front set-up.
 

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FWIW, I tried to mount the 44mm Turbo Coupe Vargas to my '86 using both the sn95 Cobra axle mount and a NRC Cobra Fox length axle mount. No way for an 11.65" rotor to fit the caliper mouth. It just wasn't big enough and the fastener spacing was wrong. I think a little grinding on the caliper mouth would have been enough to allow the rotor to clear, but the mounting spacing and off-set would have required redesigned axle flanges. Not worth it when right next to me was a 38mm Cobra caliper that fit and had adequate braking bias for my 14" Stop Tech ST40 front set-up.
Not sure if you misread my comment, or was just adding additional info.

I was referring to the 93-98 Ford Taurus 43mm caliper. It's interchangeable with the 38mm unit. Here it is just test fit on my car with the red 38mm unit hanging in the background.
4F8BBBC2-D04A-479A-8053-4F6B6856F3A9.jpeg
 
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