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Discussion Starter #1
I have thought about this a lot lately. In light of the ZL1, GT350R and the M2 and all, can it really compete if setup with the best aftermarket equipment on the market? How good could it be?

Just curious is all. Lets say you take the best from Griggs and install the GR40 equipment on it, or the best from MM and do the same, how close could it run with the new cars these days?

Same horsepower in all vehicles, and the same suspension components that come on the ZL1, GT350R and M2. Your year Fox with the GR40 setup from Griggs or the Maximum Motorsports Road and Track box or any other kit they make. What do you honestly think it could do? Can it be made as good or better?

Ed
 

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It's tougher and tougher. New cars are just so #######ed GOOD. But at the risk of sounding repetitive...the single biggest variable is the driver. When you get guys in newer, capable cars coming up to you after a session asking you what kind of supercharger you have on the car, you know you're getting somewhere in the driver development department.

That being said, I'm running neck and neck with good drivers in M2's, M4's, Focus RS', so I think the answer to your question is a qualified "pretty damned competitive". At the same time, I get run over by a good driver in a GT350 or Camaro SS. As heavy as those cars are, there's only so much you can do against huge power, massive rubber, and great modern suspension.
 

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I have the same problem as MFE. I have guys in 800 hp GT500s come up and walk around my car and eventually ask what kind of power adder I am running. When I tell them it's a stock motor with the exception of a K&N filter they mumble something about their tires being heat cycled out and walk away. On the other hand I have been whooped by Civics and Miatas.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I understand the driver thing and all, just wondering about doing what you can to a Fox and then comparing it to what is now out there and wondering how it would compare. Thanks for the replies, gents.
 

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There are LOTS of new cars out there now that are completely competent on-track. New Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, various Porsches, BRZ/FRS, BMW's are very often found at track events with solid drivers behind the wheel. The new Mustangs are very good on track, albeit a bit heavy, and you see very few Fox-body cars these days.
You need to do a lot to a Fox to even bring it up to the S197 chassis cars, much less compete with stuff like the new ZL1 or GT350. And don't even consider the 1LE or R variants. There is probably nothing you can do to the Fox short of fully gutting, caging and turning it into a race car that will put it on equal footing with a 1LE, R, Z06, GT3/GT4, etc. even with equal drivers. And even then, it's not going to be in the same league.
While there are lots of mediocre drivers out there in fast cars, there are probably just as many mediocre drivers in mediocre cars.
S.
 

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Cost, pride (built not bought), smile achieved from beating at least some of the new cars and just plain being the underdog are a few reasons I would go for it. Just my 2 pennies worth.
 

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Chassis wise, we are behind. From a value perspective, we are ahead.

It's not to say the new cars aren't better, or that the old chassis is just as capable. Because relatively speaking, our cars have the potential to compete. When you take into consideration driver being the largest factor, coupled with the lack of cost built into the fox chassis world, you can be really competitive.

Your typical M2, M4, GT350, Vette, or otherwise driver will only own that car for so long. They won't be out there tweaking suspension or learning it's ways. They will drive it till they are bored, and upgrade. Whereas we own our cars because we want them and generally don't sell them. It takes time to build them anyway.
 

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Budget and driving skill sure does have a lot to do with it. There will always be good and average drivers in expensive cars, some you will hang with and some that you won't. If you are having fun it's okay and except that will happen. It's cool to get by the big money cars with my $8000.00 115 HP Miata.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah, just going to continue working on this car and my driving. I don't want to be Mario Andretti.....lol.
 

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As noted driving skills are key. I have a 440 RWHP car with a full Griggs suspension. Full interior with AC and radio weighing in at 3,250. The car is faster than I am for sure. I run HPDE 4 events and the like. Sometimes I prevail against newer hot rods and sometimes I get soundly beat. They can modify their cars too. I can usually stay in the middle of the pack with those type cars. However I take great pride in driving my car to and from the track. And there is no better feeling than to pass some guy is his new $100K + car in my "old school" 86 Mustang.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
NICE job, Curt. Do you have the GR40 front and rear suspension? I have the full GR40 rear suspension and really like it. Been thinking about getting the front done.
 

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Yes. Front and rear complete with K member, coil overs, torque arm, lower control arms, cambered hybrid 8.8 and Watts Link. It honestly is not a Mustang anymore. Get the front done. The K member makes it faster. The torque arm makes it safer. Per Griggs anyway.
 

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Not the SLA. The K member sets the engine down and back and the coil overs work with original style struts. I looked into the SLA. Per my recollection Bruce said it would take roughly 2-3 seconds or so off times and I could step up to a 305 tire vs. the 275. I simply did not want to drop that kind of coin to change everything out. I dont race it competitively and like I said - Its already faster than I am.
 

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Yeah, I spoke to him yesterday about it and he is putting together the things I need for my front suspension. He mentioned the bigger tires with the setup as well. Seems pretty impressive.
 

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I bought the car with the suspension already installed. If I was starting from scratch I would go the SLA route because its a superior design over strut. I just couldn't justify the added expense of a complete front end redesign and new rims to go that much faster. I know I keep saying it but this car is faster than I am. I have been open tracking for some 18 years now (8 with this car) and this car scares me. Its very stable / neutral but it will pull hard forever it seems. I normally drive maybe 75% to 85% of the limit comfortably. I'm older now and guess I have settled down a little. hehe.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
56 here but still tend to go overboard now and then. ;)

Thanks for the help Curt. I will keep you updated on the progression and hit you up with questions as they arrive.

Ed
 

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My car is a full MM setup. Like the entire catalog. 486 RWHP big brakes etc etc

I’m on track at Mid-Ohio with a new (2017) 1LE Camaro. I’m putting about 4 cars a lap on him. Basically killing him down the straights. Next session he lines up right behind me. A few laps in and I can’t shake him. Getting him on the straights and he’s reeling me in on every turn. I let him by and he just keeps putting length between us. When the session is over I see him getting out of the car.....it’s a different driver!! Ego deflated.... I sneak over to look at the car later in the day and he’s on street tires! I’m on NTO1’s!!! I’m devastated.... Ego gone...
 

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"305/30ZR19 front, 325/30ZR19 Rear Goodyear® Eagle® F1 Supercar 3R summer-only tires† developed exclusively for Camaro"

...those are pretty narly street tires though!

And don't feel that bad, he has 650hp too!

A couple of years ago, I had a guy in a 2015 z28 (or 1LE, can't remember) in HPDE-1 (I was in HPDE-2 but we were on track at the same time) and he wouldn't take the point by when he easily could get by...I gave him the point by for 3 laps and him and his instructor kept waving me off. Finally, he passed me for the final 2 laps of the session. Afterwards, he came up to me and I was like "why didn't you go around me??" and he said the instructor told him to drive in my line because it was way faster than whatever he was doing before. He said he learned a lot from following me those 3 laps and was impressed that I was pulling the front right tire off the ground through some turns (had no idea...and that was on NT-05s).... and this is in my '93 LX hatch with stock cam, 100k mile short block, explorer intake, gt40y heads, stock MAF...what is that...maybe 225 at the wheels?? LOL ...those days are fun.
 
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