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Discussion Starter #1
Wow.






Wow.

Haha, I am shocked. This thing is by far the best suspension piece I have added.

It works great with the modified GMS arms, and even was able to put my rear swaybar back in without having to drill anything (which is great, because after installing this, I am tired/done with drilling anything forever).

I'll post up some pics, but its amazing how the car no longer pushes to the outside of the turn, just wants to go where you point it, unless you defeat the tire's hold on the ground.

Needless to say, the 45 minutes off onramp and offramp driving was a blast. I need more front grip, and rebuild the rear diff, however I have all the parts for it all, and I just can't wait!

One thing I must say, I can't believe I *still* don't have subframe connectors.
 

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Chris_Red_V6 said:
Wow.






Wow.

Haha, I am shocked. This thing is by far the best suspension piece I have added.

It works great with the modified GMS arms, and even was able to put my rear swaybar back in without having to drill anything (which is great, because after installing this, I am tired/done with drilling anything forever).

I'll post up some pics, but its amazing how the car no longer pushes to the outside of the turn, just wants to go where you point it, unless you defeat the tire's hold on the ground.

Needless to say, the 45 minutes off onramp and offramp driving was a blast. I need more front grip, and rebuild the rear diff, however I have all the parts for it all, and I just can't wait!

One thing I must say, I can't believe I *still* don't have subframe connectors.
R U running a torque arm too?
 

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As far as handling is concearned, besides a good set of springs/shocks and an aggressive front end alignment, adding a panhard to these Mustangs IS the best bang-for-the-buck suspension upgrade you can make, period.
 

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Blue88Notch said:
As far as handling is concearned, besides a good set of springs/shocks and an aggressive front end alignment, adding a panhard to these Mustangs IS the best bang-for-the-buck suspension upgrade you can make, period.
I've heard it said that you shouldn't introduce a PHB until you're ready to add a TQ-arm as well. 'Snap oversteer' is the usual reason given. Is that misleading information?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
haha, sounds about right. It takes some getting used to, that's for sure.
 

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blacksnake305 said:
I've heard it said that you shouldn't introduce a PHB until you're ready to add a TQ-arm as well. 'Snap oversteer' is the usual reason given. Is that misleading information?
That's totally untrue. Adding a PHB actually reduces the Mustang's tendency to snap oversteer. The PHB takes a lot of the bind out of the control arms bushings by limiting the side-to-side movement of the rear axle. This also virtually eliminates rear roll steer and makes the rear end of the car much more predictable, especially near the limits of tire adhesion. Installing a PHB along with a set of Bilsteins, H&R Race springs and X-2 ball joints will literally tansform the handling of a Mustang.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Glenn said:
That's totally untrue. Adding a PHB actually reduces the Mustang's tendency to snap oversteer. The PHB takes a lot of the bind out of the control arms bushings by limiting the side-to-side movement of the rear axle. This also virtually eliminates rear roll steer and makes the rear end of the car much more predictable, especially near the limits of tire adhesion. Installing a PHB along with a set of Bilsteins, H&R Race springs and X-2 ball joints will literally tansform the handling of a Mustang.

That's the setup I will be running, I'm going to x2's, HR race (from Oktavius), and delrin front LCA bushings.

The "snap oversteer" I am described really I think has more to do with my Tlok being worn out, and I have a whole new rear end unit going in anyways. I notice the new "oversteer" when applying power, and its jittery, which made it feel a lot like the snap oversteer I had before, although I do think I am getting some bind somewhere, probably my uppers?
 

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Glenn said:
That's totally untrue. Adding a PHB actually reduces the Mustang's tendency to snap oversteer. The PHB takes a lot of the bind out of the control arms bushings by limiting the side-to-side movement of the rear axle. This also virtually eliminates rear roll steer and makes the rear end of the car much more predictable, especially near the limits of tire adhesion. Installing a PHB along with a set of Bilsteins, H&R Race springs and X-2 ball joints will literally tansform the handling of a Mustang.
Well that's good to know. Currently I'm running the following:

Tokico D-spec shocks/struts (just purchased)
Eibach progressives
Pro-3i LCA w/ 3 piece delrin & urethane bushings
stock UCA w/ reinforced bracket welded in to box them off
Eibach anti-roll kit
poly bushings most everywhere
Max Motorsports subframes

I hope with the addition of a PHB, the rear will still be linear & predictable...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
huesmann said:
Chris, did you do the PHB install solo?
That I did. Its possible to do yourself with a couple 4" clamps and if you lift the bar into place from the passenger side. Measuring and marking definately takes 2 people, unless you like moving from one side of the car to the other a lot. I got a neighbor to help with it.
 

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Chris_Red_V6 said:
Wow.



Wow.

Haha, I am shocked. This thing is by far the best suspension piece I have added.
How high is the PHB mounted? I've read where the Roll Center established by the upper arms and the PHB compete which leads to bind. However, I would GUESS that the bind would be more linear and actually show up as increased roll stiffness (as opposed to nonliear snap-oversteer). Can you tell if there has been an increase in roll stiffness? It would be interesting to know how the upper arm bushings wear with relation to how high or low the bar is from the ground. Any experience out there?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
the actual bar pivot points are almost half an inch to a full inch lower than the shock mounts, and about the length = to that of the distance from the outer edges of the shock mounts.
 

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PHB

Just took my 1990 GT Vert out to Buttonwillow for the first time after installing H&R springs, Tokico shocks, MM PHB, MM Strut Tower Brace, MM full subframe connectors and Sway Bar polly bushings/end links. This car corners well, just need to get my Baumann shift kit in and my 3.73 gears.
 

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blacksnake305 said:
Well that's good to know. Currently I'm running the following:

Tokico D-spec shocks/struts (just purchased)
Eibach progressives
Pro-3i LCA w/ 3 piece delrin & urethane bushings
stock UCA w/ reinforced bracket welded in to box them off
Eibach anti-roll kit
poly bushings most everywhere
Max Motorsports subframes

I hope with the addition of a PHB, the rear will still be linear & predictable...
Do you have polys in the upper control arms?

I wonder how a panhard bar will be with your lower control arm bushings. With the Delrin and poly I would think there wouldnt be much lateral compliance. A panhard dictates lateral motion of the rear end. The rear end still has lateral movement though as the panhard moves across this arc. I would think that the bushing setup in your lowers would hinder this lateral arc. But then again, the arc really isnt that much. Just something to think about. The biggest difference would be if you had poly bushings in the uppers though.
 

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Chris_Red_V6 said:
That I did. Its possible to do yourself with a couple 4" clamps and if you lift the bar into place from the passenger side. Measuring and marking definately takes 2 people, unless you like moving from one side of the car to the other a lot. I got a neighbor to help with it.
Yeah, I tried test-fitting mine and it was a bit of a chore getting it up there on the rails. Plus there's some little screw-in bracket holding a fuel line or brake line or something at the top of the rail that's preventing it from fitting fully--I guess I just gotta relocate the bracket. Someday this fall I hope to get the time to put it in. I figure if I need to I can always use floor jacks to hold the ends of the thing up while I do the markings/measurements.
 

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Oktavius said:
Do you have polys in the upper control arms?

I wonder how a panhard bar will be with your lower control arm bushings. With the Delrin and poly I would think there wouldnt be much lateral compliance. A panhard dictates lateral motion of the rear end. The rear end still has lateral movement though as the panhard moves across this arc. I would think that the bushing setup in your lowers would hinder this lateral arc. But then again, the arc really isnt that much. Just something to think about. The biggest difference would be if you had poly bushings in the uppers though.
nope they are stock uppers. no poly.
As for the lowers. the delrin is a third-middle bushing shaped like a ball. the outer softer poly bushings fit into the delrin-ball. the delrin stops the fore/aft movement and also protect against snaping the polies, while the polies provide a modest amount of lateral movement & flex. (at least that's how i'm guessing it worx...)

PS: on the PHB: it seems as if you dont get it installed JUST RIGHT, your introducing issues and could affect your stang for the worse. Are there any good E-instructions out in internet-land?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
the measurements are mainly to minimize the arc of the panhard bar.

If you're somewhat off (not much), you basically just lose some clearance somewhere, and the arc of the movement is increased.

None the less, I'm pretty sure I nailed it after all was mounted up, just saying it isn't as scary as MM's detailed info makes it look.

I'll get some pics, took about 5 hours.
 
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