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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Last year I was running 10psi with an intercooler wastegate only, coolant temps 215-220, AITs in 10-20 above ambient.

This year 13 psi no intercooler wastegate only, coolant temps 170 avg 190 max, AITs 215 Max, 173 avg.

The throttle/turbo response is stupid now, the turbo spools faster.
 

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If I'm reading this correctly your AIT's are much higher than they were with a intercooler on the car..........why the hell would you do that ???
 

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Yea mine with a a2a and Meth usually stay at ambeint then drop by the end of a pull. Get as low as 80 with 97-100 iats.
 

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Josh, you misread. Now without the intercooler the AIT's are lower (avg and max) than when he had the intercooler. So the E85 has allowed him to run more boost and lower AIT's without the intercooler.

OP? Meth Inj as well or no?
 

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Josh, you misread. Now without the intercooler the AIT's are lower (avg and max) than when he had the intercooler. So the E85 has allowed him to run more boost and lower AIT's without the intercooler.

OP? Meth Inj as well or no?


He said IAT's were around 10-20* above ambient with an intercooler.. So if it was 100* outside IAT's would have been around 120*.


Now he's saying without one they average 173* and max at 215 (which is stupid high)
 

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He said IAT's were around 10-20* above ambient with an intercooler.. So if it was 100* outside IAT's would have been around 120*.


Now he's saying without one they average 173* and max at 215 (which is stupid high)
this....


OP, have you played with the timing curve at all, and watched say egts for both? otherwise your data is almost next to worthless..knowing temps is great, but its next to worthless data unless you know your egts. logged runs with weather data, and so on.
 

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this....


OP, have you played with the timing curve at all, and watched say egts for both? otherwise your data is almost next to worthless..knowing temps is great, but its next to worthless data unless you know your egts. logged runs with weather data, and so on.



Agreed, without EGT's it's kinda pointless. Of course the IAT's would be lower with an intercooler vs without since the E85 doesn't get injected till the inlet charge is practically in the combustion chamber.


I would personally run an intercooler anyway. Higher IAT's are never good, E85 or not.
 

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Agreed, without EGT's it's kinda pointless. Of course the IAT's would be lower with an intercooler vs without since the E85 doesn't get injected till the inlet charge is practically in the combustion chamber.


I would personally run an intercooler anyway. Higher IAT's are never good, E85 or not.
well no intercooler, and more boost... not boost for boost data either. and not stating the true #'s just stating above ambient really tells us nothing at all, other then he took the intercooler off, and is tossing more boost at it. (or was he losing 3psi in boost across the intercooler? i mean....???
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
You guys need to go over to the turbo forums and read...read alot...I did. You don't need an intercooler when u run alcohol. Its like running multiport methanol. Hell ethanol and methanol take out damn near the same amount of heat and are real close in octane too. 200 isn't really that high for AITs. I have no intercooler and it was costing me 3psi. Look at the guys making 1,000hp NO IC on e85. E85 IS THE SHIZ! I will add a DIY meth/water setup pre-turbo. No different than SC temps...if not cooler. You guys are so stone age. Read up then holler back.

http://www.theturboforums.com/search.php?cx=partner-pub-7228576784538258:4cz3um-wok5&cof=FORID:10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=e85+no+intercooler&sa=Search&siteurl=www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php#1021

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140800.0
 

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Discussion Starter #11
this....


OP, have you played with the timing curve at all, and watched say egts for both? otherwise your data is almost next to worthless..knowing temps is great, but its next to worthless data unless you know your egts. logged runs with weather data, and so on.
I added 6* across Pope's map (Stock timing map with boost added). I run 26* @13psi NON intercooled with eddy 170s.
 

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You guys need to go over to the turbo forums and read...read alot...I did. You don't need an intercooler when u run alcohol. Its like running multiport methanol. Hell ethanol and methanol take out damn near the same amount of heat and are real close in octane too. 200 isn't really that high for AITs. I have no intercooler and it was costing me 3psi. Look at the guys making 1,000hp NO IC on e85. E85 IS THE SHIZ! I will add a DIY meth/water setup pre-turbo. No different than SC temps...if not cooler. You guys are so stone age. Read up then holler back.

Search Results

1300 HP non-intercooled 383 SBC on E85


I think 200* IS high for IAT's since....you know.....it is.

My IAT's are around 70* depending on weather.

So what if your intercooler was costing you 3 psi. Turn the boost controller knob 2 clicks.....problem solved.

You don't HAVE to have an intercooler with E85, but it sure helps. You won't find any heads up stock suspension or drag radial guys not running an intercooler. Cooler air makes more horsepower....period.

You say your IAT's aren't high and you don't need an intercooler, they why you are talking about adding a meth injection system to lower the IAT's ??? Now you have to keep an eye on the tank to make sure it's full of meth, plumb the system, wire up the controller, and you now have a link (the pump) that can fail and take your engine out with it. I would have rather turned the boost up 3psi and not had to worry with all of that. :)

I didn't click your links but I'm willing to bet most of them are carbureted cars. And we all know that carb'ed cars have one advantage over EFI in that the fuel mist cools the inlet charge before it enters the combustion chamber.
 

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I'm doing the best of both with my new turbo build.....A2W i/c and E85. I don't think you would gain much safely by having 3# more boost..but IATs 100+ more degrees
 

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I am switching my combo to E85 before ever getting it running. I guess I can always fab up an extra cold side and test the difference. I would rather actually sacrifice a few horse power to allow the radiator and fans to run more efficient.
 

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200 degrees is really high. You can bake a potato at that temperature. E85 is not some magical fuel where you can just throw all safety precautions out the window and forget about engine knock. There have been many people destroy their engines on E85
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
My air intake temps probably aren't the most accurate either cause the sensor is in the piping that is right above the turbo. I have a blanket on the turbo, but I bet the sensor is reading some heat soak. I will move it tomorrow and report back. I guarantee my temps are lower, but if not they still safe.

Tell the guys that make big power all this. The only difference between carbs and injection is that the carb introduces the fuel sooner.

Pre-compressor injection offers a host of benefits. In a nutshell, injecting water (and ideally a few other miscible fluids of high specific heat capacity) pushes the compression from adiabatic to near isothermal. This is way more efficient (up to 30%). So you can reach the same boost for considerably less exhaust flow. My tp38 spools just fine, but my TV7701 might need some help.

E85 isn't magical, but alcohol sure does remove a shiz ton of heat.

Superchargers run about 115-200* ABOVE ambient.
 

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I am confused as to why you removed the intercooler that was already on there? If it was giving you cooler IATs, then why remove it? Sure E85 has a magical cooling capability, but why not use an intercooler to keep IATs down, and be able to run more timing?

Also interested in the EGTs and dyno/track times. All you have shown us is that you have hotter air going into the engine, I am not surprised.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
qoute from Rodney at AIS
At 10-12 psi your air temps will get as high as 180-220 depending on the temperature of the day and where your pulling air from. These temps aren't bad and just fine with no intercooler and E85. How to tell if you need an intercooler or higher octane fuel or water methanol injection. Timing is one way. If your starting to have to pull a lot of timing to avoid detonation. Reduce the air charge temps by adding an intercooler or water methanol injection or switch to a higher octane fuel or add water methanol injection to your E85 to bump that up. The engine will let you know if you need to make some changes once you get it up and running and see where your at with the tune.

Rodney

6th post down
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146268.0

You probably won't find much info over here, but you guys should really start reading on TTF. Corral is awesome and I learned alot here, but TFF is level 2+. Just do a search...knowledge won't hurt.

I removed my IC for faster spool and it was a cxracing and thought it was holding some psi back. AND after read...yeah READING. I found all those posts interesting and decided to experiment and it worked. I was gonna be running a TV7701 so I wanted as much spool decrease as possible.
 
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