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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well I dyno'ed my car yesterday and it was kind of disapointing. Dyno #'s were 324hp/350.5 tq. After reading some of the #'s others guys on the corral get with A-trim or S-trim this doesn't seem right. Here are my mods

Vortech A-trim
Stock Block bored to 306
Eagle H-Beam Rods
Ported GT-40x heads
E-303 Cam
JE SRP Pistons
1.6 SVO Rockers
Explorer Intake
42# inj.
75MM Mass Air
70MM Throttle Body
Aeromotive FPR
BBK 255lph Fuel Pump
MAC 1 3/4 Long Tube Headers
3" Exhaust w/h-pipe
2 Chamber Flowmasters
3.73 gears

I see 6-7 #'s of boost. Timing is set at 11° and fuel pressure is 38. I scanned the dyno pages also. I was told my torque curve is wrong and car leans out at 3.6K rpm. Another thing that it might be is... I was told by guy I bought the cam from it was a X303 cam. The man who put motor together says its a E...

http://www.nofx.com/user/miloco/dyno1.jpg


thx for help

laters

jeff
 

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Look at where your HP peak is, and look at what the AF ratio does at the same point. It looks to me like you're running way lean, which doesn't suprise me considering you're only running 38psi of fuel pressure. Do you have an FMU, or a chip, or what? I would think you could run 42's with a custom chip, and no FMU. Is that what you're doing? Whatever the case may be, it looks like you're running lean to me. Those flowmasters aren't helping any either.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
91fiveoh said:
Look at where your HP peak is, and look at what the AF ratio does at the same point. It looks to me like you're running way lean, which doesn't suprise me considering you're only running 38psi of fuel pressure. Do you have an FMU, or a chip, or what? I would think you could run 42's with a custom chip, and no FMU. Is that what you're doing? Whatever the case may be, it looks like you're running lean to me. Those flowmasters aren't helping any either.
How are flowmasters hurting? and No there is no custom chip yet or a FMU. I Just thought of something else, since i put 42# injectors say I drive the car for a hour then Kill it- then crack it right back up. It will not start! acts like a flooded car. I wait for a few min and it cranks up. :mad:
 

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iamjeff said:


How are flowmasters hurting? and No there is no custom chip yet or a FMU.
Flowmasters don't flow very well at all, despite the name. Get yourself some straight through mufflers (like dynomax ultraflows), instead of the chambered flows you've got, and I bet you'll pick up at least 5hp, if not more I'm not saying it's the primary cause of your numbers, but you're running very restrictive mufflers....only marginally better than stock.
 

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You know, I do a lot of reading and not a lot of posting, but man, there are some dumb ass people here. Flowmasters not much better than stock. Bulls--t. They don't flow as well as say dynomax would, but they are NOT hurting anything. 5hp? You think that's what he's looking for? You can't even feel 5 hp you dumba$$. There is something not quite right, and if it's leaning out on a blown motor, that's why. If you graph o2s, an exhaust restriction will indicate a rich condition due to airflow characteristics. As I end all of my posts, don't listen to stupid opinions on here. If the guy at the dyno can't help you, find a new dyno shop.
 

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GreyLX306 said:
You know, I do a lot of reading and not a lot of posting, but man, there are some dumb ass people here. Flowmasters not much better than stock. Bulls--t. They don't flow as well as say dynomax would, but they are NOT hurting anything. 5hp? You think that's what he's looking for? You can't even feel 5 hp you dumba$$. There is something not quite right, and if it's leaning out on a blown motor, that's why. If you graph o2s, an exhaust restriction will indicate a rich condition due to airflow characteristics. As I end all of my posts, don't listen to stupid opinions on here. If the guy at the dyno can't help you, find a new dyno shop.
:rolleyes:

Obviously, you have trouble reading. I did NOT say the mufflers were the primary cause of his problem, nor did I say they were hurting him. I just said they weren't helping. I already told him it was probably due to leaning out. And I still stand by my statement that Flows are only marginally better than stock.
 

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I'm not an expert on reading dyno graph's, but maybe i can put some ideas to the table.

From your graph(2nd link) it appears that you are running lean before 4500-4600rpm and after that rpm its just about right(ie. notice how your power curve correlates to your air/fuel ratio when running around 12:1), i belive that when you are at wot your air/fuel ratio should remain fairly constant, while yours is looking more like a slide. My guess would be that you need to straighten out your fuel delivery problems.

I personally have never messed with a blower car, but it seems that your are getting plenty of fuel in the top end and yet your are leaning out in the bottom end. Like what was previously stated above you might want to try and play with your fuel pressure or maybe the problem lies within the fmu.
 

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The comment about Flowmasters is pretty accurate. They're a chambered design which gives them that Flowmaster sound but that also creates backpressure, albeit not a whole lot. A 3" exhaust just doesn't sound necessary to me with an A-trim making 6-7 lbs of boost but I could be wrong. Switching to a straight through muffler like a Magnaflow, Dynomax Ultraflow, or Hooker Max Flow would probably get you another 5-10 horses over what you've got. When comparing chambered mufflers I believe the Hooker AeroChambers have the claim as being the best flowing.







Take all of this for what it's worth, you mileage may vary.

EDITTED: Because I'm stupid, lol.
Carson
 

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Ideally you should be at about 350-360rwhp with that combo. I think a custom chip/tune and a set of straight through mufflers will give you about 25hp with those mods. Best of luck
 

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PASSDU2 said:
I think you've got fuel delivery problems. Your torque curve looks backwards in relation to hp and your A/F ratio looks way too fat from 2,000-2,900 rpm. ...
Take all of this for what it's worth, you mileage may vary.

Carson
Why do you say it looks way too fat from 2000 - 2900? They didn't start the dyno pull until 2300, and the car is running extremely lean all the way too 4200. I am suprised the guy running the dyno stayed in it! I would shoot for no more than a 12.5:1 a/f across the board. You could maybe go to a 13:1 up until about 3000 rpms. Looking at the dyno sheet, I would definitely presume there to be some ignition problems. Did you check the gap on the plugs? You're not running platinum plugs are you? I would definitely have an MSD or crane box on that car. Did you say NO fmu? That is most likely why the car is running so lean. If you have 42# injectors, get a chip burnt and you can run w/out an FMU. I personally wouldn't drive the car until I got the a/f straightend out; its running at 17:1 in some places.
 

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i would be willing to bet the spark cannot jump the gap you have on the plugs under boost. the curve looks quite jagged. i would double check for vacuum leaks number 1, then pull the plugs, and gap them to .35, bump the base fp to ~40 vacuum off. make sue you have your check valves all in place, like on the pcv, and timing, you say its set at 11*, is that initial timing with the spout in?
do you have a btm?
if so, how much spark you got taken out per lb?
since in the beginning of the run your way lean, i would also check the voltage at the pump, make sure the wires are not corroded. you looks good up top, but i suspect thats because your losing spark.
i would suspect you should run about 380-410 rwp with your setup, and youll easily gain about 10hp once its tuned right just by changing from blowmasters to ultraflowz. ask the turbo guys, they see upwards of 40rwhp doing that swap alone! :eek:

good luck man, your almost there!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
nosmatt said:
i would be willing to bet the spark cannot jump the gap you have on the plugs under boost. the curve looks quite jagged. i would double check for vacuum leaks number 1, then pull the plugs, and gap them to .35, bump the base fp to ~40 vacuum off. make sue you have your check valves all in place, like on the pcv, and timing, you say its set at 11*, is that initial timing with the spout in?
do you have a btm?
if so, how much spark you got taken out per lb?
since in the beginning of the run your way lean, i would also check the voltage at the pump, make sure the wires are not corroded. you looks good up top, but i suspect thats because your losing spark.
i would suspect you should run about 380-410 rwp with your setup, and youll easily gain about 10hp once its tuned right just by changing from blowmasters to ultraflowz. ask the turbo guys, they see upwards of 40rwhp doing that swap alone! :eek:

good luck man, your almost there!
Hey nosmatt and screamin399 thanks for the great info. I think yall have tracked this down. I need to check plugs and the current gap when I get home today. My MSD BTM was sent back to msd, but is now on its way back here. at that 11° is without the spout in.
 

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In looking at your setup I think that your fuel curves have to be off by a great deal since you are not running an FMU or a chip. That is where I would look first without a doubt. You should be at 400 rwhp at LEAST. Good luck.


BTW - where is your compression at with the new pistons?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Toddzilla said:
In looking at your setup I think that your fuel curves have to be off by a great deal since you are not running an FMU or a chip. That is where I would look first without a doubt. You should be at 400 rwhp at LEAST. Good luck.


BTW - where is your compression at with the new pistons?
I was told 9:1


Another thing someone pointed out is the HP and TQ don't cross at 5250. And He told me to punch it at 2k... and graph starts at 2.2k
 

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iamjeff said:

Another thing someone pointed out is the HP and TQ don't cross at 5250. And He told me to punch it at 2k... and graph starts at 2.2k
Well, you punch it at 2k and it takes a second for the operator to load the dyno and start recording.

I am 90% certain that your problem is your complete and total lack of fuel management.
 

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91fiveoh said:


Flowmasters don't flow very well at all, despite the name. Get yourself some straight through mufflers (like dynomax ultraflows), instead of the chambered flows you've got, and I bet you'll pick up at least 5hp, if not more .
LMFAO:lol:


My flowmaster mufflers didnt seem to hurt MY dyno session. I was running an A-trim just like him. Stock heads,injectors, TB, AND meter 339.7hp
 

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swinerton said:
LMFAO:lol:


My flowmaster mufflers didnt seem to hurt MY dyno session. I was running an A-trim just like him. Stock heads,injectors, TB, AND meter 339.7hp
Well if you've never swapped them out for anything else and then run it on the dyno again, how would you know? Do you have any frame of reference?
 

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Its not worth my time to reference the combo. I enjoy the sound of my 2-chambers with off-road H-pipe, and Id rather have the desireable(sp?) sound than the 5hp anyway.

Lets drop this whole flowmaster subject anyway, can we? Seems to be getting out of hand for a 5hp argument..:p
 

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Yeah, those graphs are cool too. Think if the graph ranged from 0 to 500 that it might not look as impressive? But those aftermarket guys are great at advertising. When you buy into that stuff you get confused and spend money in the wrong places. But thankfully some knowledgable guys tuned in with some good stuff.

I worked with a guy who was recently relieved of his position here, he had an 88, stock block, powerheads, big a$$ cam, edelbrock intake, and a 9lb. powerdyne, and FLOWMASTERS. Dynoed 422 rwhp, I was a witness.

But the bottom line is that you will get your car running great when your fuel problem is sorted out, and you can have whatever exhaust note you want.
 
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