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Discussion Starter #1
ok so here is what i have motor wise

pretty sure its a 302-306 short block with forged pistons 9:1 cr
trickflow tfs track heat heads
edelbrock performer rpm intake
aluminum valve covors
svo 1.6 roller rockers
arp head bolts
felpro gaskets
bbk 70mm throttle body and egr
pro-m maf
#42 injectors
t-5 trans
msd 6al
msd distributor
msd 2 step
it also has an adjustable fpr but i think i'll go with a kribin boost refrence fpr
this is the kit im going with. i know alot of you are not going to like it or will think its dumb to go with but im going to try it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__1986-1993-Mustang-5-0-Single-Turbo-Kit-Foxbody-86-93_W0QQitemZ130267429864QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item130267429864&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318
i'll also be upgrading to the masterpower turbo. i live in utah btw.
i'll be running 9lbs on the street on 91 pump gas. and on 100 octane, 15lbs, and meth.
so with that info what do you think i'll be running power wise? on pump and race gas?
 

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Your going to be making around 500rwhp at only 9 lbs and your going to split the block at 15lbs....seriously.

To add to that, those injectors are going to be barely enough for 9lbs of boost, let alone 15lbs.

Unless you plan on upgrading to an aftermarket block with bigger injectors, stick with 9lbs of boost.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
whats nice about utah is that since we are so high up we can get away with 42's and higher boost. would you suggest running the meth on the 9lbs too?

i forgot to mention that i want to run about 550rwhp total. i dont want to push it too much. i figured id need 15lbs to reach the 550rwhp but if i can get away with it at say 12lbs id be ok with that too.
 

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whats nice about utah is that since we are so high up we can get away with 42's and higher boost. would you suggest running the meth on the 9lbs too?

i forgot to mention that i want to run about 550rwhp total. i dont want to push it too much. i figured id need 15lbs to reach the 550rwhp but if i can get away with it at say 12lbs id be ok with that too.
What does a higher altitude have anything to do with the amount of injectors you need? You will need the same injectors with a turbo setup at both sea level and higher elevations. If you plan on making 550rwhp, you are still going to be maxing out the injectors. Again, I'd go with something bigger so you are not running max+ duty cycle every time you get into boost.

Either way, with the intercooler you shouldn't have any need for meth injection....even at 12lbs.

Just to re-iterate, your block will be on borrowed time if it's stock. Keeping the rpms under 6k can help to a point...but it's still going to split eventually. The more horsepower you throw at it...typically the less it's going to last.
 

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Higher elevation means you don't need as much fuel because you're not getting as much air. Trust me, he's right. Most of our turbo fox guys are running 42 lb injectors on similar setups. Turbo cars are great at high altitude, they don't choke like the N/A motors.
 

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Higher elevation means you don't need as much fuel because you're not getting as much air. Trust me, he's right. Most of our turbo fox guys are running 42 lb injectors on similar setups. Turbo cars are great at high altitude, they don't choke like the N/A motors.
You are getting just as much air with 8lbs of boost at sea level as you would at 5k feet. You are getting the same amount of air regardless of elevation. It's for that very reason that you should dyno similar numbers at 700 feet as you would 5000 feet...and the same reason you can not apply SAE elevation correction on a turbo setup. Your right, they are great at altitude...and won't choke like n/a motors. They will however require the same injector as lower elevations.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
there is a guy that runs a 357w and is on a 255lph fuel pump, stock fuel lines and rails and 42lb injectors and is running 699hp and 702tq. im not tryin to argue with you i do appreciate your advice. you deff know more about this turbo stuff than i do. thanks for the input.
 

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there is a guy that runs a 357w and is on a 255lph fuel pump, stock fuel lines and rails and 42lb injectors and is running 699hp and 702tq. im not tryin to argue with you i do appreciate your advice. you deff know more about this turbo stuff than i do. thanks for the input.
Yeah, either he has extremely inflated dyno numbers (likely due to SAE elevation correction)...or he is flat out full of sh#t. 42lb injectors are good to ~450rwhp in supercharged form or ~500rwhp in turbo form. You can squeeze a bit more out of them with increased fuel pressure, but it's going to push the injectors past 100% DC and is still only good to ~550rwhp max.

To add to this, the stock rails are only good to ~ < 550rwhp in turbo form. Past that and they simply wont flow enough fuel. There is nothing special about elevation with this. 500rwhp in a turbo setup requires the same fuel system at sea level and at 5000ft. This includes fuel pump, injectors rails etc.

If you're still not sure whether or not to believe me...head on over to the turboforums ( www.turbomustangs.com ) and ask the question or do a search. There is a great deal of info to be had.
 

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:lol: if you make 600 hp at 5 feet or 5000 feet you WILL need the just as big as a pump and injectors the air maybe thinner but 600 hp is 600 hp.....:blam: if you have a na car at 50 feet it will make say 300hp but at 5000 it will make 275 but if you make 600 at 5000 feet you will need the same amount of fuel as it will still take the same amount of air to this motor to achieve this power !
 

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Turbo's make up for altitude. I'd aggree with 'millhouse' the high numbers on that guys dyno are inflated. There was an article in MMFF a few months ago that Richard Holdner wrote about this. Basically he said that turbo's have the ability to make roughly the same power at any given altitude, or something to that effect. I know in UT density altitude in the summer is normally around 8k feet above sea level and 1/2% humidity.:hammer:

My car went lean at 3000rpm on 12lbs boost with 255 intank and 42#'ers.

You can try what you have, but when it goes lean....we told you so.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ok so what injectors would you suggest running then? and would meth help the lack of injector? keep detonation down? what psi would i have to run to make 550rwhp?
 

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ok so what injectors would you suggest running then? and would meth help the lack of injector? keep detonation down? what psi would i have to run to make 550rwhp?
60lb'ers would work nicely.

As for meth injection....it is not a substitute for lack of injector, but a means to keep detonation down caused from excess heat. An intercooler will do the work without the need for meth injection.
 

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But meth will never hurt and will make sure you reach your power goal!

Im def. going meth when I go turbo. Or a 50 shot of spray on the track....maybe both????lol
 

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But meth will never hurt and will make sure you reach your power goal!

Im def. going meth when I go turbo. Or a 50 shot of spray on the track....maybe both????lol
It may not hurt, but for a great deal of us...it's not going to help either. Once you have reached block splitting horsepower on a conservative tune and 93 octane fuel....really, meth isn't going to do much for you.
 

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It may not hurt, but for a great deal of us...it's not going to help either. Once you have reached block splitting horsepower on a conservative tune and 93 octane fuel....really, meth isn't going to do much for you.
Understandable.

My thoughts, Meth is cheap and a very safe additive to any combo. If you are running a stock block and at the break point why not take the PSI down a notch and add meth? If it will help cool temps even greater than just a intercooler alone and help stop detonation from happening even the slightest why not stop taking risks and add a little security. Granted it may not exactly make your block last any longer with or without it, but its def not going to make it split any faster. I am no car wizz and don't have the experience in high horsepower cars but from what I have read and understand I think its a valid point. Please correct me if I am wrong since I don't know if my facts are correct.

Your side though if you are already running a turbo without meth and not having any issues why bother to retune. I'm looking at it as why not do it while setting your combo up.
 

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Understandable.

My thoughts, Meth is cheap and a very safe additive to any combo. If you are running a stock block and at the break point why not take the PSI down a notch and add meth? If it will help cool temps even greater than just a intercooler alone and help stop detonation from happening even the slightest why not stop taking risks and add a little security. Granted it may not exactly make your block last any longer with or without it, but its def not going to make it split any faster. I am no car wizz and don't have the experience in high horsepower cars but from what I have read and understand I think its a valid point. Please correct me if I am wrong since I don't know if my facts are correct.

Your side though if you are already running a turbo without meth and not having any issues why bother to retune. I'm looking at it as why not do it while setting your combo up.
I understand what you're saying...but if you wish to lower the boost and crank up the timing, you man not be able to get the power completely back up to where you were originally. How much do you need reall to lower the boost....when it's only going to need ~ 8psi to get up to 500rwhp. At those levels, even an intercooler is not a necessity for a safe tune...let alone an intercooler or meth.

Now if you try to do so, you have to keep in mind you now have a newfound depndancy on the meth itself. If you run out, you'll likely detonate hardcore. You also have another tank to fill on a regular basis....which is the whole point of ditching the bottle in the first place. Granted it's far cheaper....and lasts far longer, it's still just another thing to keep an eye on and re-fill.
 

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I understand what you're saying...but if you wish to lower the boost and crank up the timing, you man not be able to get the power completely back up to where you were originally. How much do you need reall to lower the boost....when it's only going to need ~ 8psi to get up to 500rwhp. At those levels, even an intercooler is not a necessity for a safe tune...let alone an intercooler or meth.

Now if you try to do so, you have to keep in mind you now have a newfound depndancy on the meth itself. If you run out, you'll likely detonate hardcore. You also have another tank to fill on a regular basis....which is the whole point of ditching the bottle in the first place. Granted it's far cheaper....and lasts far longer, it's still just another thing to keep an eye on and re-fill.
If I already was set up with a safe tune on a combo no matter what im running I wouldn't pay to retune it to run meth. That was a dumb statement on my end. I also want to do a flip switch where no meth on street tune with lower HP and a track/stop light tune with meth.:rofl:

So my car will be a Meth head...lol sorry couldn't help it.
:lol:
Yes but if you do depend on meth for your combo then you better know for damn sure if you have it filled. Otherwise I wouldn't feel sorry for you if it blows. Now if pump failure,Crack for some reason or cloged line then yes oops. But no matter what you run your always playing with fire on a stock block.
 

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If I already was set up with a safe tune on a combo no matter what im running I wouldn't pay to retune it to run meth. That was a dumb statement on my end. I also want to do a flip switch where no meth on street tune with lower HP and a track/stop light tune with meth.:rofl:

So my car will be a Meth head...lol sorry couldn't help it.
:lol:
Yes but if you do depend on meth for your combo then you better know for damn sure if you have it filled. Otherwise I wouldn't feel sorry for you if it blows. Now if pump failure,Crack for some reason or cloged line then yes oops. But no matter what you run your always playing with fire on a stock block.
I've never been a fan of the flip switch on a stock block (I never saw the point)....but that's understandable.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
well i decided to go with a twin setup. im trading my nitrous kit for 2 garret 62's with a 48 exhaust housing. and then this intercooler- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__CXRacing-Intercooler-FMIC-Twin-Turbo-Mustang-Trans-AM_W0QQitemZ330285967180QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item330285967180&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__Turbo-Blow-Off-Valve-Chrome-2-5-Pipe-Mustang-Celica-M3_W0QQitemZ220314018133QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item220314018133&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318
this intercooler piping for both turbos to the intercooler and then going with a custom intercooler to tb pipe with the maf and bov
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__CXRacing-3-Intercooler-Piping-Kit-Mustang-Accord-pipe_W0QQitemZ350126425055QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item350126425055&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318

what ya think? i know the exhaust housing is small but i wanna build boost fast and only rev to 6k. the turbo's are internally waste gated and will most likely be setting that at 7psi and running a manual boost controller to up the boost.
 

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well i decided to go with a twin setup. im trading my nitrous kit for 2 garret 62's with a 48 exhaust housing. and then this intercooler- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__CXRacing-Intercooler-FMIC-Twin-Turbo-Mustang-Trans-AM_W0QQitemZ330285967180QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item330285967180&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__Turbo-Blow-Off-Valve-Chrome-2-5-Pipe-Mustang-Celica-M3_W0QQitemZ220314018133QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item220314018133&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318
this intercooler piping for both turbos to the intercooler and then going with a custom intercooler to tb pipe with the maf and bov
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__CXRacing-3-Intercooler-Piping-Kit-Mustang-Accord-pipe_W0QQitemZ350126425055QQadiZ2865QQadnZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item350126425055&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:543|65:12|39:1|240:1318

what ya think? i know the exhaust housing is small but i wanna build boost fast and only rev to 6k. the turbo's are internally waste gated and will most likely be setting that at 7psi and running a manual boost controller to up the boost.
What are you doing about the headers and downpipes? What size are the turbo compressors? I'm running .60/.48's myself....and while they are adequate, they will run out of steam at 5k rpm.
 
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