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Discussion Starter #1
i have a lot of parts laying around.... really debating on what to do.. i pulled it into the shop yesterday for a new motor and trans install and new paint job.. also needs tires and some brake work.

it has a bone stock 289 in it with c4. runs 9.5's or so in the 1/8th

well i'm gonna use it as a backup for my car and want to punch it up to a 6.50 or so on a budget. . here are my thoughts...

current 289 freshened up and slap a roller cam in it with a nice set of heads and a LOT of compression... use my alky carb and spin the piss out of it.. . install a transbreak in the c4 and let her eat... best possible outcome would prob be a low 7... and only thing i would have to buy were pistons and a ring and bearing kit.. camshaft and valvetrain... i already have bare rhs 215 heads.

351W i have sitting in the shop.. bare block... so for it i could do a stroker kit.. assemble the rhs 215 heads i have... buy an intake and carb.. use a glide i already have... build new driveshaft if need be... honestly think i would run 6.10's or so like that...

or use a 302 i have.. make a 347 with the 11r heads or afr .. sell the bare rhs heads i have to offset cost.. do a nice hyd roller... good carb.. undecided on alky or gas... probably use the glide i have... plus a looser conveter than the other one i had in mind from the 351w stroker..

parts budget is 2500 cash now.. if i sell my heads add in 750 or so more to the budget.. i have unlimited access to a machine shop for 0 dollars... i have a LOT of parts... if i have to sell some later to help budget i will... but would rather use what i have with the least amount of wasting money.
 

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Is the car a street car or a race car to begin with? If street car, will it still be a street car?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
race car. ive debated on this for a long time... now that i sold the chevy 2 i pulled it in the shop and started the tear down process.

i wanted to duplicate the power plant in my 67 that i drag race.... but an 800hp jack roush cleveland wasnt the most practical thing to build from scratch. plus i sold the rest of my cleveland parts after this last build.. next time it goes, i'm either going 9.2 deck height dart... or the track boss and throw some turbos on that thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i got rid of all my spare cleveland stuff... including a set of cleveland heads... but i do like your way of thinking Blown and strocked......
 

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Discussion Starter #6
gonna try and post pics in a little while... got the wiring harness ripped out..
 

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Hard to argue against the 351w option. With a roller setup and some good heads it’ll be into the 6’s even without a solid roller.
 

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When you put a 351W based engine in a 66 Mustang, you will hate having to do spark plugs or installing headers or stuff like that. A 302 based build is a tight fit, the Windsor is an even bigger pain in the ass. Now if you remove the shock towers and go to a Mustang !! front suspension, (double A-arm) which includes rack and pinion steering, then you have room for a big block. Totally transforms the engine compartment.
 

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Ok I'll bite...

I've been bracket racing for longer than some on this site have been alive, and have learned a lot-but not everything.

What I can tell you is that high compression lends itself to better consistency. I don' t know why, but it does. I'm at 15:1 and change and found it's a little more consistent than it was at 13:1, and no other changes.

Alky-much more consistent than gas, particularly if your area is known for weather changes like it is here. I've been to the races, show up it's 75 degrees and cloudy, by noon 40 and dropping....and pressure rising quickly. That's hard to dial with weather like that. I've also showed up in the morning with 55 deg air temp and by final round, 95, humidity all over the place. One Sunday, started out typical summer day, about 79 in the morning at 0800, noon in the upper 90's, then at about 1430, clouded up and eventually had a small tornado make a path down the pit area. THAT--was interesting. Anyway, the point is--with methanol, the air temp isn't as big of an ET change with weather as it is with gas. There are a few exceptions but not that many.

Thirdly, powerglide. C4 is a good transmission but that extra shift gives you another way to lose. Bracket racing is all about finding ways to win, and part of that is identifying ways to lose (of which there are thousands) and elimintating them--and sometimes using them to "your" advantage. That is where the powerglide comes in. One shift. Super simple internally, proven, works great for bracket racing (and other types of drag racing too). They even work on 289's. Are you going to slow down? Maybe. Depends completely on the torque converter. Mine went a little faster (302" stock iron crank and stock cast pistons with old school RPM heads on gas at the time, 7.20's).

Suggestion? Powerglide with the correct converter (and choose the custom converter LAST), 289, high compression (if you can get it up around 14:1+ that's better), methanol, biggest tires you can stuff under the back end, and go to the track. You might be able to get it to run in the 6.50 range. If I can throw together a stock stroke 302 out of junkyard parts, throw an alky carb (circle track carb at that!) on it and run 6.40's and an occasional high 30, a 289 should be able to as well; but it'll want more RPM. I think the hardest part would be getting the compression ratio up high. It's easy with a 351+ but not so much with a 2.87" stroke. This way with the 289, you should be able to meet your budget. Bracket racing is not about speed or power, both can be a boon, it is about the reaction time's importance and finding ways to turn on your win light. The more you change the more you get lost with what change does what. Pick a combination, stick with it, win some races, and use the winnings you EARN to buy more or better parts. I've been at 438" dart based windsor for the last 13 seasons (and it's tired), won a ton of races with it, lost a few, but most importantly learned what works and what doesn't and how.

On the converter, I'd probably like to see an 8" CCX, probably looking at using a sprag for best performance (if spragless is your thing, you'll want to have a different stator as the CCX can impede flow without a sprag, which costs some MPH), fin angle probably around +150, but it's been a minute since I've messed with 'em, and things have likely changed. Your converter guy will hook you up. A bracket racing converter is going to sacrifice a little ET for consistency, which is where a spragless comes in. I know a guy who knows SBF's and powerglides, and more importantly knows that combination with bracket racing in mind, but I don't know if he's interested in building a converter to ship out of state or not, he's local to me (well somewhat) so I just drive over there if needed, about 3 hours from the house. In 20+ years, I've only had to visit him twice. Once initially and the second time, I had broken a thrust bearing inside and trashed the entire converter. He fixed me up, and it works awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
When you put a 351W based engine in a 66 Mustang, you will hate having to do spark plugs or installing headers or stuff like that. A 302 based build is a tight fit, the Windsor is an even bigger pain in the ass. Now if you remove the shock towers and go to a Mustang !! front suspension, (double A-arm) which includes rack and pinion steering, then you have room for a big block. Totally transforms the engine compartment.
full tube chassis race car.... got room for a 958 musi if so desired... lol just dont have the budget for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok I'll bite...

I've been bracket racing for longer than some on this site have been alive, and have learned a lot-but not everything.

What I can tell you is that high compression lends itself to better consistency. I don' t know why, but it does. I'm at 15:1 and change and found it's a little more consistent than it was at 13:1, and no other changes.

Alky-much more consistent than gas, particularly if your area is known for weather changes like it is here. I've been to the races, show up it's 75 degrees and cloudy, by noon 40 and dropping....and pressure rising quickly. That's hard to dial with weather like that. I've also showed up in the morning with 55 deg air temp and by final round, 95, humidity all over the place. One Sunday, started out typical summer day, about 79 in the morning at 0800, noon in the upper 90's, then at about 1430, clouded up and eventually had a small tornado make a path down the pit area. THAT--was interesting. Anyway, the point is--with methanol, the air temp isn't as big of an ET change with weather as it is with gas. There are a few exceptions but not that many.

Thirdly, powerglide. C4 is a good transmission but that extra shift gives you another way to lose. Bracket racing is all about finding ways to win, and part of that is identifying ways to lose (of which there are thousands) and elimintating them--and sometimes using them to "your" advantage. That is where the powerglide comes in. One shift. Super simple internally, proven, works great for bracket racing (and other types of drag racing too). They even work on 289's. Are you going to slow down? Maybe. Depends completely on the torque converter. Mine went a little faster (302" stock iron crank and stock cast pistons with old school RPM heads on gas at the time, 7.20's).

Suggestion? Powerglide with the correct converter (and choose the custom converter LAST), 289, high compression (if you can get it up around 14:1+ that's better), methanol, biggest tires you can stuff under the back end, and go to the track. You might be able to get it to run in the 6.50 range. If I can throw together a stock stroke 302 out of junkyard parts, throw an alky carb (circle track carb at that!) on it and run 6.40's and an occasional high 30, a 289 should be able to as well; but it'll want more RPM. I think the hardest part would be getting the compression ratio up high. It's easy with a 351+ but not so much with a 2.87" stroke. This way with the 289, you should be able to meet your budget. Bracket racing is not about speed or power, both can be a boon, it is about the reaction time's importance and finding ways to turn on your win light. The more you change the more you get lost with what change does what. Pick a combination, stick with it, win some races, and use the winnings you EARN to buy more or better parts. I've been at 438" dart based windsor for the last 13 seasons (and it's tired), won a ton of races with it, lost a few, but most importantly learned what works and what doesn't and how.

On the converter, I'd probably like to see an 8" CCX, probably looking at using a sprag for best performance (if spragless is your thing, you'll want to have a different stator as the CCX can impede flow without a sprag, which costs some MPH), fin angle probably around +150, but it's been a minute since I've messed with 'em, and things have likely changed. Your converter guy will hook you up. A bracket racing converter is going to sacrifice a little ET for consistency, which is where a spragless comes in. I know a guy who knows SBF's and powerglides, and more importantly knows that combination with bracket racing in mind, but I don't know if he's interested in building a converter to ship out of state or not, he's local to me (well somewhat) so I just drive over there if needed, about 3 hours from the house. In 20+ years, I've only had to visit him twice. Once initially and the second time, I had broken a thrust bearing inside and trashed the entire converter. He fixed me up, and it works awesome.
very very very interesting... i like your ideas!!!!! my problem is telling myself to go small... everything ends up snowballing and being OVERKILL... and in bracket racing it's not necessary...
 

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After doing it for almost 3 decades, and running everything from 260" SBF to V6's to a turbo 4 cylinder to 557" BBF, automatics, manuals, and semi-automatics, I've learned that fast is fun and expensive, but mediocre wins more races when it comes to bracket racing.

I love the high winding 427" big bore SBF rowing a Liberty but my budget can't afford it anymore. Nor can it afford the maintenance of a 9200 RPM engine. Just running a real simple 438" SBF on methanol now in a little home-built Maverick. Nothing special but it will print timeslips like a zerox machine if I run it out the back door all the time. Most of the time in elims I'm holding a couple numbers so the slips vary a little from 330 to 1/8. From 60' to 330', dead on to within a few thousandths. Reminds me, the local track used to do a "dial in for dollars" deal, where when you tech'd in, they'd give you a ticket. If they drew your number, you wrote a number on the window and if you ran that number to the thousandth, you won the pot. Nobody ever wins it during the regular season which is March-Nov. Right around Thanksgiving, they'd tell everyone to put a number on and whoever ran it to the .000 won the pot. I have won it several times. Usually about $400 in the pot. Two years ago the transmission shop I spoke of earlier put a little extra $$$ into the pot (sponsored) and I took that pot home, which ended up at $604. Nothing big money but my car ain't no high dollar "outlaw" car either (although I have run it in "outlaw" heads-up class).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
now i'm down to the firewall and installing an engine plate.... someone slap some sense into me please... i have a set budget, but nothing i WANT to do fits in it well... i WANT a 408... i WANT a good solid roller setup.. I WANT a good carb... I WANT an aftermarket block... ughhhh..

i have a LOT of good parts that would do well.. i already have one car in the mid to high 5's... one car in the mid 4's as soon as i install the motor.... i'm sure this car can run mid 6's or 7s on a 2k budget IF i use the parts i already have... but just cant make myself pull the trigger and do a simple mild stock block setup.... even though i already have a 351 block fully machined sitting here.. all it needs is pistons to be put together.. someone make me throw some cheap hyper pistons in it... use my dual plane intake.. use the carb i already have... use the heads i already have.. (rhs 215s) ... use the glide i already have... and let it run what it runs...
 

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It's valentine's day. Just show your wife how much she means to you by slapping that engine together for her to race with.
 
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