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Discussion Starter #3
Tim

Spearco makes the cores for Fast Track, and probably the others as well. They make good cores, but I'm looking for a complete kit for someone. I know someone has to have some intercooler comparisons here!
 

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Well I just picked up my car from SHM today and drove it around for a few hours and two thumbs up. Fits nice and seems to get the job done.
 

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Fasttrackperformance Intercooler!!!!!!

I just picked up my '97' Cobra from Robert at Fasttrackperformance. I live out here in sunny Southern CA. I left my Cobra with him a couple of days so that he could do the install of his air to air IC. I'am running a Paxton Novi2000 S/C on my Cobra so Robert had to do a little more work to install his IC on my Cobra. Also, I had recently installed a larger Stedda ( C&R ) radiator which meant that Robert had his work cut out for him; getting the larger diameter S/C & radiator to fit in the engine compartment with his IC. To see pictures of his IC, go to his web site: www.fasttrackperf.com--Before I made the final decision on finally going the the fasttrack, ( which is a custom Spearco core ) I checked out every air to air IC out there: SHM, Paxton, XMP, Fasttrack. I even at first had found at a good price on a used Vortech aftercooler ( air to water unit ) but Shawn at Diablo ( onerichrunner) talked me out of because he said like alot of other people that it would be too much of a modification to match it up to the Paxton Novi2000. I looked at all the threads on the IC's & what people were saying about them, especially about the Fasttrack IC. I would hear people state that the Fasttrack unit was too small, it would heat sink ( on the dyno any air to air IC will heat sink if there is not a high volume of air blown into it ). Also, it would heat sink at the drag strip. Anyway, I did my homework which consisted of (1) common sense about the IC matter (2) Interviewed Robert at Fasttrack about how he spent many hrs. at Spearco learning all about how they could help him design the best possible core to fit into a '96' thru '98' Mustang Cobra front end that was never designed by Ford anyway for a S/C. How he tested with a customers '98' S/C Cobra with his IC in the summer time at Willow Springs race way ( full race conditions) & took documented air temp. readings before IC & after IC. (3) Read a real good book entitled "Supercharged!" by Corky Bell; especially the section on " Intercooling" (4) My final choice decision was reading the comments of Ralph Green & his '98' S/C with the Fasttrack IC. That is how I came to purchase & have Robert pesonnaly install his IC on my Mustang Cobra. Also I might add; Robert installs two Bosch bypasses to keep from having surging problems with the motor. He uses all mantrel bends in his tubing & the best material in clamps & hoses. I can't say anything more at this time but--Thanks Robert at Fasttrackperformance. Richard ( 4.6 Cobra ):joy:
 

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I'm happy my remarks were helpful. I hope they prove accurate. I know I am satisfied with my FastTrack cooler here in hot central Florida. As you discovered, there are a few trade offs involved in the selection of a cooler in regard to size, placement to get lots of air flow, radiator blockage, ground clearance, boost restriction, drivability issues, etc. Considering all of those issues, I believe the FastTrack is hard to beat. However, with a good install, I'm sure others will be satisfied with other selections, especially in cooler climates.
 

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does the IC allow you to run more boost, or just to run the same boost safely?

from what i understand an IC will drain about 1-2 lbs of boost, so if u upgrade to a 10-lb pulley, you're still only seeing 8 lbs at the motor. I understand that the 8 lbs you see now is colder and safer, but is the performance increase worth it?
gino
 

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Gino...I'm a long long way from being a power adder cooling expert, but I do have some opinions. I know, I know, they're like ....., everyone has one.

You will notice a lot of very high HP cars like Dave King's race car do not run a cooler. I'm not sure about Joe Stewart 's car this year, or the very few other cars in that category. They obviously prefer full boost maximum HP even with higher intake air temps VS lower boost levels after IC and cooler air with a little more timing (maybe). They're concerned with making maximum HP for short periods of time. So...for a drag car, at anywhere near street car HP levels, it is tough to make the case for coolers. The extra boost seems to be worth more than the cooler air with more timing. (otherwise these guys would all run coolers) And...they're not concerned with making the engines last 50,000 miles.

Now a lot of us street guys believe "cooler air is better air", and we believe we can run a tad more timing with cooler air, which helps with engine life, and we are more than satisfied with the tradeoffs. Some of us running a fairly conservative tune think we might even come out ahead in the power department with coolers, just like the text book says, with our cooler air and more timing. For racing like road racing, coolers are a must , with their extended periods of hi temp operation.

On this forum of mostly drag racers, with our obsession with running low gears, turning the engine pretty high even for cruising, it seems to me a cooler is a good idea. However, a blower car on street tires has little traction with low rear gears, so if you wanted to go against the norm a little, go back to stock 3.27's on street tires for some traction, which would slow down the blower in non boost conditions, keep boost under 10 lbs, I see little real need for a cooler. I believe Saleen a few years ago stated their blown cars on street tires were fastest with 3.08's, which would really slow the blower down. (I'm not really sure in vacuum the temps are very high no matter the rear gear) I'm just rambling here, but I'm not sure coolers are worth what they cost in money and complexity in low boost situations.

If I were doing this again, I might (maybe might) as soon have the impeller upgrade with 3.6 pulley and no IC with less rear gear, as the 3.3 pulley with IC and 4.10's, considering what it took to get it working well. However, I'm easy on parts, and don't really race, so my situation may be different.

As usual MHO
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Any experiences with the Paxton?

I've heard nothing but good with the Fast Track piece. What is it rated to? 1000hp? How about the others? Thanks for the feedback.
 

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The biggest is by far the Paxton:eek: when I got mine in the mail, I was curious how the hell the thing would even fit.

I would say the fast trax is the best if you are worried about boost drop, most people say about 1.5psi drop which is great. The X-M-P (Xtreme Motorsports Performance) cooler IMO is about the best. Eric can help you with this. It goes for $1400 and uses Spearco cores. But is way bigger than the Fast Trax (which also has spearco cores), which have cooling problems due to their small size, at least thats what I've heard, some say they have had no problems.

THe Paxton is the best IMO because it drops the temp so much, and is absolutely HUGE!!!!!! On the downside, it drops around 3psi-4psi:eek: Mostly the pressure drop is due to how cool the temp is. When air is cooled from like 300 degrees from like 16#'s of boost, to 130-140 degrees, the boost will drop dramatically, not that you are loosing power, but the boost you do get is so dense with oxygen that you actually make more power than if you had more boost uncooled. It really has nothing to do with bad efficiency on the part of the cooler, its just the cooling capacity of the thing. To date I have never felt the discharge tube feel warmer than ambient:eek: I'm sure it was by 10-30 degrees, but I couldn't feel it.

THe SHM, I couldn't tell ya, because I don't know much about it. But SHM is a great company. But I've heard reputable shops say that for the money you could get a better cooler. IT costs around $1600 I believe. The Paxton costs $1300. THe Fast Trax costs $1400 and the X-M-P costs $1400.
 

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Fasttrack IC WORKS!!

I was the one that had the IC installed for the tests that was performed at Willow Springs. The temperature drop was remarkable even after a 20 minute session of high RPM use. During street use the intercooler stayed so cool that discharge temps to the throttle body was only about 15 degrees above ambient.

I had to remove the Vortech to be able to compete in the NASA American Iron series where the rule is 9.5 to 1 power to weight ratio so I no longer have his setup. I played a part in the design of the intercooler, our goal was to lower the discharge temps as much as possible while cosidering the total weight of the entire package. We achieved this goal without restricting the flow using high quality materials such as mandrel bent tubes, and a specifically designed intercooler from Spearco. The Intercooler sits in front of the radiator where it will get maximum air flow to cool the fins.

In my opinion this is the best designed intercooler for the 4.6 DOHC Mustang.

Sincereley,
Ernesto

#2 American Iron Mustang
 

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Ernesto,

Eventually I will be using Rob's IC so I have a question for you. I will be installing a Steeda radiater soon. I am wondering if there will be any problems fitting the IC in my car with the Steeda radiater. Also, since the IC sits in front of the radiater, are there any issues with the car running higher coolant temps with the IC.

Thanks for your input.

Jerome
 

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Fasttrack IC with the Steeda radiator

Jerome: If you will look back at my original comments about the Fasttrack IC; I stated that it was a challenge for Robert to install his IC on my '97' Cobra because I had the physically bigger Steeda radiator & the physically bigger Paxton Novi 2000 S/C for him to work with. Also you were asking about the size of the unit & the possibilty of overheating of the radiator because of its placement in front of the radiator. You can go to a few different web sites to see what it looks like in a Mustang Cobra. (1) go to the Fasttrack site: www.fasttrackperf.com (2) go to www.mustangweekly.com & put Ralph Greens name in search (3) go to http://beast.freehomepage.com to see Chris mureen's '98' Cobra 'ala' chris98Vobra of the Corral who has a similar 3 core cartech IC to the Fasttrack IC that fits almost identical location of the Fasttrack IC. As far as causing the radiator to run hot; the Fasttrack IC unit sits down low on the very bottom half in front of the radiator & it does not cause you over heating problems. The other brands of IC's that are much bigger physically & sit in front off most of the cars radiator like ( Paxton-XMP-SHM ) "might" cause your car to run hotter than normal. Like I said before, I'am very happy overall with my Fasttrack IC.:joy:
 

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I know the Paxton inlet and outlet is about 3.5", and I think the fast trax is 3", but I could be wrong about the fast trax. I think you should go with X-M-P or Paxton IMO.

ROB
 

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Inlet/Outlet

The Fasttrack inlet/outlet is 3.5". Rob "BoostedGT", get your facts straight before you start mouthing off about something you don't know.

Jerome, the Fasttrack kit will fit even with a Steeda radiator installed.


Ernesto
#2 American Iron Mustang
 

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Just a few quick pointers about intercoolers in general.

Spearco makes the cores for just about everyone. Don't forget what makes a complete intercooler system effiecient.
1. Number of bends, kinks, 90 degree turns in the piping
2. Core efficiency.
3. Amount of piping.
4. Size of the piping.

To get the maximum system efficiency, you want the least amout of bending, keep the piping to as minimal as possible, use large tubing as you possibily can, and pick the correct core for your application.

Most 4.6 intercooler kits are made for cars making about 10-14 pounds of boost. They are designed for milder street applications.The more boost you shove thru these types of systems, the more restrictive they will become and the more boost drop you will see.

Most kits are also designed to fit cars that have little room for piping, and have full accessories. So they have to design something that will be the best compromise (and theres lots of them such as radiator clearance) These engine compartments don't have much space, and space at a premium.

This year I will be adding an intercooler system. Its going to be very efficient and flow extremly well. It's not a pratical system for a street car though. My system goes like this. I have nothing attached to the inlet of the blower. No piping, no filter. Out of the blower it goes straight down and angles 90 degrees into the intercooler. From the intercooler it comes up and out over the rad support and straight into the Hogan intake. It will be a straight shot with very little bend. This works for me, but I don't have any accessories and I designed my intake so that this would work (http://www.modularshootout.com/hogan.htm)

There are many factors involved into the design of a supercharger core. Just because it may be big, does not mean it flows like you need it to. It gets very complicated. One thing you want to get is the biggest Intercooler in length. However, the bumper and rad support come into play so your limited somewhat to about 23" inches. Thickness is important as well, mine is 3.5" thick, and will work perfect. Some people may not have this kind of clearance that a race car offers. The height of the intercooler is important as well. You want an intercooler thats about 8 to 10" high. Again, certain intercoolers are designed for certain applications. What works on a turbocharged system might not work for a supercharged system. What works for a 10 psi kit, won't work for a big huffer making big boost. What works great for a street car that sets his car on corvette killer mode that does a lot of highway racing, wont be the best for the guy drag racing.

There are also cross flow intercoolers, vertical flow intercoolers. You can have the tanks and cans mounted anyway you want. Spearco has some great examples of different types of cores on their website.

Air to air intercoolers are better for street racing, air to water intercoolers are better for drag racing.
 

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Has anyone ever sprayed the exterior of the intercooler with a fine mist of water to help it make the air cooler?
 

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Jeez, 98Cobra, I said in the next sentence that I might be wrong about the Fast Track intercooler:eek: WHy you getting so worked up. I never bashed on the Fast Track intercooler or anything. I'm not even saying the Paxton or X-M-P is better, I'm just saying what I think he should get.

Rob
 
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