Ford Mustang Forums banner
21 - 40 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Well, drum roll please...Here's the deal. Went out today with some great weather and started the open heart exploratory surgery. The findings are as follows: Sure enough, for reasons not known yet, and maybe never, #4 intake cam lobe worn right down. The roller lifter appears intact apart from wear on the body edges from where it ground down into the lobe. Check out the pics that I hope upload. Other than the lobe I see no other clues as to what happened. One of the weirdest things is that this has been a problem for over 6 or 7 years at least to one degree or another. Yes, hard to believe but true.
So, will I ever know the cause?? Who knows? The thing now to do is decide what I want to do about it. This is where I will probably weigh opinions including my own as to what I want to go with and what to risk etc.
My first inclination is to just order the same cam and 1 lifter. Clean everything up nice and put it back together. Another choice is to find a cam maker to get a custom Yet even another choice is...somewhere I have my original cam. I wonder how much I'll be leaving out if I put in the original cam.
So, in summary, I've had the elusive misfire for many years, not always a dead misfire, but obviously it became that way after so long. The car is just a summer car but the paint is pretty beat. I look forward to it running right for the first time in a long time. Prior to that cam install close to 15 yrs ago I did some performance driving events at Watkins Glen and in the back of my mind would love to go back someday. Other than that, an occasional 1/4 mile run and just cruising/daily spirited driving is what I'd use it for. So, let the suggestions begin if you have the time.
Thanks,
Ken
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
Man, that is gross. Where are all the missing pieces of metal? Even if you put your old cam back in,I'd pull the oil pan and dig out all the metal that has to be in there before it get sucked up into the oil pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I like that idea Rob! And f150, that's the thing. This must have been happening for so long, it's been through several oil changes along the way. Always synthetic with a high quality filter. Back when I had a lift at my disposal I'd let it drain for extended periods and even give a shot of two of brake clean into the drain plug holes followed by some compressed air to get everything I could out. I think there was a time when I had a magnet on the filter too, all the while having no idea that I could have had this kind of issue along the way. Will surely give that pan a good flush out this time especially since the front is wide open from the timing cover. I honestly thing it would have blown up by now if it was going to because I don't drive it stupidly, but definitely for all it's worth. I'm wondering about the cost of a custom cam too. On the other end of the scale, which is free, is my original stock cam if I can find it in mom's garage... I wonder what the performance trade off would truly be. I have a feeling it would really weasing above 5000. Just a guess. With heads/intake/exhaust/3:55's it doesn't sound like a very practical move, other than financially. Oh, I'll probably look it up but does anyone know the general limits on timing chain looseness? I tightened up the right side and the loose side looks to move a good 5-8mm give or take. I replaced the timing set along with the cam almost 15yrs and pro 50k or so ago. The bank is already broken so to speak but I don't want to miss something dumb.

Thanks for the comments,
Ken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
Happened to me a couple of times.
Here's what mine looked like.





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
OH Tarafirma that's nasty. I'm glad I'm not quite that screwed. I need to figure what cam to put in there now. Other than the obvious, I never had any problem with the crane 2031.

A lot of people seem to recommend a custom cam as the "best" and that makes a lot of sense. Out of practicality however, I just wonder how much "better" one would be over the "best" off the shelf has to offer and what it's worth in $$? Nothing against the custom grinders out there. Without knowing the cost, I'm open to just about anything at this point.

Kinda want to make it happen soon while I'm in "do" mode. Other things seem to come out of nowhere that suck attention away, so before the car gets to be a fixture in the garage, I want to keep the assembly line moving.


Timing gear/chain sets aren't quite as much I thought they'd be. I may be wrong but I think I've seen some say they have a steel crank gear and others cast. And then there're the adjustable ones, and just stock style. I just want to keep things simple and reliable.Thanks for any suggestions or info.

Ken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
If you're on a tight budget snag an off-the-shelf cam from somebody here on corral. There's always alphabet cams, as well as other stuff kicking around. They're not the greatest, but better than stock. Elsewise, seems weird that thing just dug into that cam lobe. Had to be something binding up to dig that lifter in so deep. I'd take a look at the whole valvetrain for that particular valve/cylinder, as it seems there's more than meets the eye. Broken valvespring binding? Stuck valve? Just looking at it something doesn't add up for me.

Anyhow, I'm sure plenty of folks are already offering you crap, but I have a systemax cam available if you're interested. Oh, and hopefully you've got all the metal out of that sucker. Mine took a long time to show up but when it did, things went south in a hurry....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Knucklehead, I took the valve springs off and checked to see the valve is free to move and it is. Also noticed the infamous edelbrock soft spring seat issue. Will have to take some pics and post tomorrow. The heads are early model 6037's with the 1.9 intake valves. I'm on the verge of making this whole thing a real project. Not really what I was looking to get into but I'm sure we're all familiar with the "where do I draw the line" question. Cam,springs,spring seats, heck...all bearings, oil pump...on and on. I guess it's good it's early in the warm weather season...I still just want to throw a cam and a lifter in it but we can't always get what we want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Here are the pics of the spring seat shims/cups, whatever they're called. I wonder if Edelbrock would send me different ones after all these years. I guess I"ll have to contact them.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
Man, you hit the nail right on the head with the diagnosis! Hope you can get it figured out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Super-weird, and thanks for reminding me about the soft spring seats on the edelbrocks, forgot about that and I'm about to put some on my car. Were there certain runs that had that problem and some that didn't? Need a refresher course...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
knuckle- As far as I know, back 15 yrs or so ago when they first started making these heads, the initial ones all came with the soft spring seats. Then afterwards they figured it out and I also have read about guys getting Edelbrock to send them new hard ones. Not sure when the cut off of the production was but I think I should contact them to see what they can do.

Foxbody, I wouldn't go so far as to give me an credit for diagnosis. I STILL don't really know why the one cam lobe went. I can only guess that it was something when I assembled it or just bad metal like the chevys back in the 80's. As far as I know, the grooved spring seats wouldn't cause it either. If you knew every other single thing that I've tried BEFORE I actually figured out the cam thing, you'd probably be saying something more like "It's about time, there was nothing left"..

Next step, contact Edelbrock, and also make at least a cam selection. If I go with another 2031, at least I know what I'm getting. If I go with stock i KNOW there will be performance drop off, just wonder how much and if there would be any advantages. Anything else is up for discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Ok, brace yourselves...It's going back together. Yes, people have entered and graduated college, joined the service and been discharged, been married and divorced, in less time than it's been apart. But anyway...
Crane's back in business so went with the ssne 2031 like I had.
^HERE is the latest kicker. Decided on upgrading all lifters from standard motorsports to the H models with ceramic valve etc. Well tonight I went full John McEnroe ("You cannot be serious!") when only 7 of these lifters would fit under the old Edelbrock 6037's. Why did i not know this would happen???
Answer...because iI saw nowhere stating different external dimensions
So.... what do we think about DREMELING enough under the deck of the heads just enough to fit them.?? It can't take much since 7 actually went. I do NOT want to turn this into a head gasket job. I'd do the dremelling with a vacuum nozzle sucking the aluminum up and keep it all clean of course. Of course, nothing is ever simple right?😂🙄
What do you think?
-ken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,214 Posts
Hey, I'm lucky to accomplish tying both my shoes at the same time. Doing lots of stuff, getting little done. Plus winter doesn't help. But at least now I made some diagnostic progress. Time for the rest of the work now, (or soon).
I waiting to see you tie both of your shoes at the same time.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
lol @ Mark.
About the lifters...I hear you. I had heads and lifters installed on my latest build and decided last minute to change to different lifters, and the first ones came out no problem. Most of the replacements went in ok with heads on, but a few needed a little sideways bump with a hammer handle.
Why’d it take so long to get back at it? Just curious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Lol,Mark. I reread the shoe thing and just realized it made no sense lol.😂.

Mx8, why so long? Most things in my life other than time move reeeaal slowly. Decided to make 2021 " Get my s#!^ together" year. And this is some of that s#!^. I'll have to revisit my clearance options . Not sure I want to risk the hammer persuasion in this case. Gotta adapt and move forward now. I'm just surprised I haven't heard about this prior because we're not really talking exotic combo here. Just more satisfaction when it finally runs and hopefully stays together. (Mark, i'll work on the shoe thing next)
Ken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikes85&99

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,022 Posts
Throw this out there, can you try that lifter in a different spot?
Maybe slight differences could get it to clear in a different position?
But, that could result in a different one not fitting. Just trying to think of a way to determine if it's the lifter or the position in the block.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Hi blown,
Yeah, it's definitely the size of new lifters. The old ones went in and out fine and i tried ever hole with several different ones. It's only a few thousandths and also a little different shape on the ends. I figure the aluminum should be the easiest/softest to grind compared to the iron block,or sensitive steel lifter. Today, I actually found a description on Amazon saying block modification might be necessary with them in the same paragraph they say OEM type direct replacement, so 🤷🏻‍♂️🙄
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Update..
Well all the lifters are in and preloaded. Mx8, you inspired me to just make it happen with some(a little more than some on some), persuasion. Normally I'd never think of doing such a thing but that's coming from someone who's taken 5 years to get back to this. I want it DONE so sometimes risks pay off. I think it will be fine and time will tell. Happily, no new preload adjustments were needed. So all ahead full. Thanks for your support.✌
Ken
 
  • Like
Reactions: tmoss
21 - 40 of 49 Posts
Top