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i am strategizing an American Iron buildup for the NASA series, and have a basic question or two:

platform is a 98 Cobra, with a 99 cobra motor in it
plan is to gradually gut it, suspend it, cage it, and then diet it.

goal is to drive it back and forth to the tracks for a few months - doing DE3/4, and club days, and maybe TT,
and then after a few (~4-6) months, eventually get a tow rig to haul it back and forth.
(this isn't on which i want input)

my questions involves:
when trying to decide between a suspension set up (griggs, Agent 47, maximum, steeda) how much better is one than another?????

to look at the advertisements, (to talk to company reps) some make it seem like there is a night and day difference. ad that going with someone else's package is a huge mistake.
Conversely, at least one person i spoke to, with one of the above said : "i have beaten folks with each of those other types, and i have been beaten by others with each of those, as well"


my other question is kinda parallel, but on brakes:
I have been cutting my teeth driving a CMC car, 1995 GT with cobra motor, and cobra 2 piston brakes. it has ducts, DOT-4, stainless lines, and hawk pads.
As i am now contemplating an AI buildup, my initial (newbie) thought, was "I gotta hop up the braking first"
This is true to a degree. but how far, and at what point?

the question:
to what degree are the current cobra brakes good enough? (assuming ducts, pads, lines, fluids, and perhaps rotors have all been upgraded)
or . . .
should i just opt in for some 4 piston brembos? or 6 piston willwoods, or ?the brake man's? from the begining?

i plan on running 17" rims, and not going above 13" rims

any and all thoughts/advice welcome.
thanks,
doc
 

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i am strategizing an American Iron buildup for the NASA series, and have a basic question or two:

platform is a 98 Cobra, with a 99 cobra motor in it
plan is to gradually gut it, suspend it, cage it, and then diet it.

goal is to drive it back and forth to the tracks for a few months - doing DE3/4, and club days, and maybe TT,
and then after a few (~4-6) months, eventually get a tow rig to haul it back and forth.
(this isn't on which i want input)

my questions involves:
when trying to decide between a suspension set up (griggs, Agent 47, maximum, steeda) how much better is one than another?????

to look at the advertisements, (to talk to company reps) some make it seem like there is a night and day difference. ad that going with someone else's package is a huge mistake.
Conversely, at least one person i spoke to, with one of the above said : "i have beaten folks with each of those other types, and i have been beaten by others with each of those, as well"


my other question is kinda parallel, but on brakes:
I have been cutting my teeth driving a CMC car, 1995 GT with cobra motor, and cobra 2 piston brakes. it has ducts, DOT-4, stainless lines, and hawk pads.
As i am now contemplating an AI buildup, my initial (newbie) thought, was "I gotta hop up the braking first"
This is true to a degree. but how far, and at what point?

the question:
to what degree are the current cobra brakes good enough? (assuming ducts, pads, lines, fluids, and perhaps rotors have all been upgraded)
or . . .
should i just opt in for some 4 piston brembos? or 6 piston willwoods, or ?the brake man's? from the begining?

i plan on running 17" rims, and not going above 13" rims

any and all thoughts/advice welcome.
thanks,
doc
How much track time do you already have? Would you consider yourself among the strong runners in the top level of DE's you run (e.g. the advanced group?) If not, spend your time and money on learning to drive to the limit of the stock suspension first. When you learn where the limitations of the stock suspension are, you will be better equipped to ask the questions of the suspension sellers that will get you what you need. At this level of driving (racing?) a slower car with a great driver can often easily outrun a fast car with a green driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
How much track time do you already have? Would you consider yourself among the strong runners in the top level of DE's you run (e.g. the advanced group?) If not, spend your time and money on learning to drive to the limit of the stock suspension first. When you learn where the limitations of the stock suspension are, you will be better equipped to ask the questions of the suspension sellers that will get you what you need. At this level of driving (racing?) a slower car with a great driver can often easily outrun a fast car with a green driver.
in 18 months, i have had ~24 days on track (with 2 more coming thursday and friday at VIR)
and on 9/11, i get to begin a club membership at carolina motorsports park,
so i will be racking up the days (18 days for my share of the group membership) even faster

I ran 1:52's and 1:53's at Road Atlanta in a CMC-1 prep'd '95 GT

in the SE we run DE-3 and DE 4 as one group, so i am not yet at the top of that broad field.

i know driver modification is #1, and am investing heavily there, (above)
but want to start moving my new car along its path.
 

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i Conversely, at least one person i spoke to, with one of the above said : "i have beaten folks with each of those other types, and i have been beaten by others with each of those, as well"
That's probably the most honest statement I've heard about this stuff in a long time.

Many of the products offered by these companies can provide a huge increase in performance IF they are dialed in right. But untill you get to the top levels of competition, a well sorted-out setup and a good driver may be way more important than the brand you choose.

I used to run circles around a couple of guys with Griggs racing suspension when I had just factory 4-link "quadra-bind" suspension with all Steeda "G-trac" parts. It was not nesessarily because the Steeda was better. It was becasue the Steeda setup was well matched and I had it dialed-in as good as it was ever going to get.
 

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Im also very interested in the cobra brake question cause i have cobra brakes on my 98gt and i just started turning a 99 gt into an AI car. they work good for now but an AI car, with the greater speeds and stickier tires, i think the cobras aren't quite enough. if there is an AI guy running cobra fronts i'd like to talk to him.
 

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Im also very interested in the cobra brake question cause i have cobra brakes on my 98gt and i just started turning a 99 gt into an AI car. they work good for now but an AI car, with the greater speeds and stickier tires, i think the cobras aren't quite enough. if there is an AI guy running cobra fronts i'd like to talk to him.
I'd say if you've got the brakes, go ahead and run 'em until you start running into their limitations. Most AI guys I know are slowly progressing from Cobra PBR calipers, to Brembos off the 2000 Cobra R ro Stoptec. I can't honestly say how much better the more expensive calipers are, having never pushed 'em to the limit on a track.
 

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I'd say if you've got the brakes, go ahead and run 'em until you start running into their limitations.
I plan on doing this since I have 2 sets of the Baer PBR brakes. I have a set of AP 4 piston brakes for later, I am trying to fit them now and may start a new thread since I am having problems.
 

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brakes are you number one, primary safety devise. that is the one place i wouldn't try to cut corners. i mean i run them in my HPDE 98 mustang, but the speeds arent as much as an AI car, but it is heavier than an AI car, but its on street tires. Do any AI guys run Cobra PBR's?
 

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I know of a number of racers who have run the PBRs on an AI car and won races that way. It is not a safety issue. It is mostly a pedal feel and pad life issue. The PBRs will taper the pads much more than a fixed 4 piston caliper will. This just progressively makes the pedal feel worse and worse as the pads wear.
 

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I've never had a problem with PBR calipers. My car is faster than most AI cars and I run on A6's. Does the pedal feel get a little weird at times, sure. If you have something better install that, but the PBRs are fine.
 

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Doc
Since you mentioned Road Atlanta, I'll give you a point of reference with stock Cobra brakes. My car is about 3460 pounds w/driver. And I have run 1:44s with no brake issues at all. Just make sure you have new fluid and decent pads. I dont think the AI guys are far off that time, maybe 1:40-42.
Hope that helps
 

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Stop Techs up front and cobras out back won back to back Texas region AI championships in 2004 and 2005. The car dominated both seasons but it was an all out race car with a good driver.

Use what you have now and if your times get faster then upgrade the brakes. Brake pad compounds also make a huge difference and keeping the brake system flushed and in proper working order is a must. Personally, I would skip the 2000R brakes as they tend to have rotor issues. I have seen two cars with problems this year alone with cracked or broken front rotors up front.

Darren
 

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Baer has a 4 piston caliper coming out. They are going to offer a kit that comes with brackets, calipers & lines to bolt to the SN95 spindles. Reuse your Cobra rotors & you now have 4 piston front brakes.

Tight packaging constraints and simplicity with ready serviceability were the focus of Baer’s design on the T4. To ensure a tidy package the T4 is limited to use on 12 to 13-inch diameter rotors.

Whether sold as part of a Baer Claw TRACK-4 brake conversion or as individual calipers for custom use, T4 units deliver big performance on a moderate budget.

T4 Features -

•The 6-bolt architecture of the T-series two-piece bodies produces an incredibly stiff caliper.
•Radial mounting configuration disperses loads evenly, makes custom adaptation (when applicable) straight forward and the servicing of pads or rotors a simple, clean and easy task.
•Stainless pad abutments which can be changed easily when changing pads also serve as anti-rattle/noise shims.
•T4 units are simple to maintain, using the same pad shape as found on 1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro. The FMSI (Friction Materials Standards Institute which is the recognized authority on brake pad references) number for this pad shape is D749. The D749 is available in a wide cross section of pad compounds from most US pad manufactures.
•Features internal fluid transfer passages and are bolted together from the back half of the caliper. This arrangement makes the exterior of the T-series ultra clean with no externally visible crossover or bleeder.
•Since only a single bleeder, located on the inner half of the caliper is used, T4 units bleed quickly and easily.
•Available in two widths for 1.100” or 1.250” thick rotors
 

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I don't think BAER has finalized the pricing yet because the T4 is so new.
I'm hearing you should pay around $895 for caliper, braket, pads, crushwashers & hardware.
 

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Anyone done any direct comparisons between this caliper and the Cobra R Brembos, Stoptechs, Sierras, and other common 4-pot SN95 calipers?

It's easy to make something pretty. It's entirely different to make it work well in a race enviornment. Two things that concern me are the lack of external crossovers (I'm wondering how reliable those internal passages will be, long-term -- ESPECIALLY if they're using O-rings to seal them.) The single-bleeder setup also causes some concern. that necessitates a more complex plumbing arrangement, which can make it more difficult to get all the air out of the system.

Pad changes don't look to be very track-friendly. I'f I'm going to drop a lot of coin on a race caliper, I want to be able to R&R the pads without dismounting the caliper. Doesn't look like that'll be possible with this one.

And then there's the stiffness, which is one of the main reasons you go with an uber-expensive aftermarket caliper, and what looks stiff may not necessarily be so.

I'm going to be skeptical until some race team runs these things in a HEAVY race car for a season and reports back.
 

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Yeah, can't beat the ease of changing pads in Brembos. Once you get the wheel off the only tools you need are a small punch and something to whack it with.
 

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Yeah, can't beat the ease of changing pads in Brembos. Once you get the wheel off the only tools you need are a small punch and something to whack it with.
You'll beed a piston retractor, too. One of the FEW drawbacks to this kind of setup.
 
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