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Discussion Starter #1
Well I'm nearing a point with acquired parts that I'm going to tear into the car and have a long weekend putting it all back together.
Stock 130k 302...presently has equal length shorties and mac 2.5" to the back, 340lph, 3.55s, Astro T5.
Installing AFR165s, 1.7rr, Andersen B21, Extrude Honed Explorer, 75mm TB, 80mm blow through set up for 39lb injectors and an older P600b Procharger.

Anyone that has run similar set up in the past???
Where did you set the Fuel pressure and the FMU as a baseline and to add where did you set timing to start playing with it??

Ive also read horror stories about how people have set up (or lack of) pcv system?? Hoping not to create a mess.

Any tips, tricks, solid supporting info would be great.
 

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Ive also read horror stories about how people have set up (or lack of) pcv system? Hoping not to create a mess. Any tips, tricks, solid supporting info would be great.
Incorrect vacuum line routing is a widespread problem. Do not underestimate the importance of a good vacuum system. Use the following guide below to do this properly.

Your intake manifold should have a few separate sources for vacuum supply. One of them should be designated to components relevant to your engine management system or Stk. EEC-IV Processor. Those components are:

1) Fuel pressure regulator

2) Boost Bypass valve (if used)

3) MAP sensor (if used)

4) Boost pressure gauge (if used)

* Do not allow these components to share a vacuum circuit with any other parts other than the ones listed.

The second one should be plumbed to your vacuum accessories such as your brake booster, and heater controls. This is also the circuit you would use for your vacuum source for the EVAP control solenoid. Run a large hose from this intake port to your vacuum tree. Run another large hose from the vacuum tree to the brake booster. There should be a hose from the vacuum tree to a vacuum check valve. On the other side of the check valve would be the vacuum reservoir ball, and the heater controls. Exactly the way it was when it was stock. You should also have a hose from the vacuum tree to the EVAP solenoid.

A third vacuum port on the intake should be connected to the PCV valve only. Do not connect the PCV valve to the vacuum tree. With forced induction, there will need to be a check valve in this circuit to prevent boost pressure from entering the crankcase. It is a common myth that you can use a PCV valve from a production vehicle with a turbo or supercharger, and not use the check valve. Don't do it! These PCV valves, especially the aftermarket ones, are unreliable at best for this purpose. You MUST install an in-line check valve if you are using forced induction. The direction of flow needs to be toward the intake of course.

Mcmaster-Carr (mcmaster.com), part number 7775K12, works well for this. You'll also need a pair of hose barbs, since the ends of the check valve are ¼ NPT. McMaster's part number is 5346K18. This is a pack of ten barbs but will cost you less than buying two at the local hardware store. Be sure to use a good quality hose, especially for the PCV circuit. Fuel line works best for the PCV system. Regular vacuum line with soften and swell from contact with engine oil, causing loose connections and vacuum leaks.

I hope this helps
Michael Plummer
 

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Stock 130k 302...presently has equal length shorties and mac 2.5" to the back, 340lph, 3.55s, Astro T5.
Installing AFR165s, 1.7rr, Andersen B21, Extrude Honed Explorer, 75mm TB, 80mm blow through set up for 39lb injectors and an older P600b Procharger.
Any tips, tricks, solid supporting info would be great.
When designing a fuel system, you need to design it around the fuel pump. Your choice of fuel pump will determine your fuel line sizes, rails, injector size, and regulator.

You have the 340lph fuel pump but do you have the appropriate fuel pump hanger and lines? If you're using the stk. fuel pump hanger and not the Pro-M fuel pump hanger you'll introduce air into your fuel, cavitation, heat along with drivability issues. Watch all three videos they are very informative.




I hope this helps
Michael Plummer
 

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Im glad this thread came up

The Check Valve posted 7775K12 is no longer available according to the McmasterCarr website. They do offer a substitute 7775K32. Is it the same part? I was going to use a EV127A and the check valve combined


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Discussion Starter #7
<snip>
Michael Plummer
Micheal, thanks for all the info.

Do you feel its completely necessary to do a high end fuel set up as that? This will not be anything more than a daily driver and just plain fool around in.

I personally would like to keep it as simple as possible.
 

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Q) Do you feel its completely necessary to do a high end fuel set up as that?
A) Again, everything starts with the fuel pump. You build your fuel system based on the fuel pump you're running.

Q) This will not be anything more than a daily driver and just plain fool around in. I personally would like to keep it as simple as possible.
A) Then there is no need for a 340lph fuel pump. Purchase a 190lph fuel pump it will be more than enough for what you need.

If you run the 340lph fuel pump with the stock fuel pump hanger you will have driveability problems based on the information shown in the videos. You wanted tips with solid supporting information and that's what I posted. Now it is totally up to you to do whatever you like with the information.

I hope that helps
Michael Plummer
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Q) Do you feel its completely necessary to do a high end fuel set up as that?
A) Again, everything starts with the fuel pump. You build your fuel system based on the fuel pump you're running.

Q) This will not be anything more than a daily driver and just plain fool around in. I personally would like to keep it as simple as possible.
A) Then there is no need for a 340lph fuel pump. Purchase a 190lph fuel pump it will be more than enough for what you need.

If you run the 340lph fuel pump with the stock fuel pump hanger you will have driveability problems based on the information shown in the videos. You wanted tips with solid supporting information and that's what I posted. Now it is totally up to you to do whatever you like with the information.

I hope that helps
Michael Plummer

Totally does help.
Im trying to stray away from running lines and such.
Do you think the 190lph pump would feed the motor with that blower?? I was under the impression it would not.
 

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Michael is presenting some great, thorough information but all that having been said, I'll say you should be fine with what you have. People run 255's, 340's, and 450's in stock fuel systems without driveability issues. I personally use a 450 with everything stock until the injectors. 255 was the go-to for like a decade in stock fuel systems for any car. It's still very popular.

Again, not to discount what Michael is saying, as he's guiding you toward a better fuel system. I just think it's not worth the expense of these components on low hp cars like this.
 

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People run 255's, 340's, and 450's in stock fuel systems without driveability issues.
Personally, I don't agree with that statement. First thing, people lie, second tuners tune around the issue and third they still have driveability issues. There is no way you can watch those videos and think it's okay running a larger fuel pump with the stock fuel hanger. The stuff mentioned in the video is real and leads to real world problems and that is a fact. I don't care what was done in the past, hell back in the day they told everyone to run a 160 thermostat because it made your car run cooler. BTW if anyone agrees with that last statement, you need to educate yourself.

Based on your combination of parts, you do not need the 340lph but you asked for feedback with proof, yet you choose to do what's easier for you. My motto has always been this. Fix what you know isn't right and then move on. Running a 340lph fuel pump with your combination of parts isn't right. In the end, it is your car and money, do whatever you like.

Good luck
Michael Plummer
 

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Totally does help.
Im trying to stray away from running lines and such.
Do you think the 190lph pump would feed the motor with that blower?? I was under the impression it would not.
You keep mentioning fuel lines. Where did I say you need to run fuel lines and such? What I'm saying is you don't need the 340lph fuel pump.

I hope that helps
Michael Plummer
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You keep mentioning fuel lines. Where did I say you need to run fuel lines and such? What I'm saying is you don't need the 340lph fuel pump.

I hope that helps
Michael Plummer
Considering the pump hanger you mentioned is set up for AN fittings, you would have to half ass something or run all new lines.
 

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Considering the pump hanger you mentioned is set up for AN fittings, you would have to half ass something or run all new lines.
It's getting over complicated from what I'm reading here. I agree that the 340lph fuel pump is too much pump. I'd go with the 255lph Walbro. Also I disagree on something, fuel pump does not determine injector size, how much HP you make does. Maybe Michael Plummer could explain what he said? I'm all about learning something new. Moving on......Ditch the FMU. With your list of mods I'd say from others that I've seen you should be around 400-450 hp at the flywheel. More or less depending on how much boost and timing you want to throw at it.

Info by Jrichker (the one guy I trust)
To determine the overall capacity of a fuel pump rated in liters, use the additional following conversions:
(Liters per Hour) / 3.785 = Gallons
Multiply by 6.009 = LBS/HR
Multiply by 0.9 = Capacity at 90%
Divide by BSFC = Horsepower Capacity
So for a 110 LPH fuel pump:
110 / 3.785 = 29.06 Gallons
29.06 x 6.009 = 174.62 LBS/HR
174.62 x 0.9 = 157 LBS/HR @ 90% Capacity
157 / 0.5 = 314 HP safe naturally aspirated “Horsepower Capacity”

Safe “Horsepower Capacity” @ 40 PSI with 12 Volts
60 Liter Pump = 95 LB/HR X .9 = 86 LB/HR, Safe for 170 naturally aspirated Horsepower
88 Liter Pump = 140 LB/HR X .9 = 126 LB/HR, Safe for 250 naturally aspirated Horsepower
110 Liter Pump = 175 LB/HR X .9 = 157 LB/HR, Safe for 315 naturally aspirated Horsepower
155 Liter Pump = 246 LB/HR X .9 = 221 LB/HR, Safe for 440 naturally aspirated Horsepower
190 Liter Pump = 302 LB/HR X .9 = 271 LB/HR, Safe for 540 naturally aspirated Horsepower
255 Liter Pump = 405 LB/HR X .9 = 364 LB/HR, Safe for 700 naturally aspirated Horsepower

Note: For forced induction engines, the above power levels will be reduced because as the pressure required by the pump increases, the flow decreases. In order to do proper fuel pump sizing, a fuel pump map is required, which shows flow rate versus delivery pressure.

That is, a 255 liter per hour pump at 40 PSI may only supply 200 liters per hour at 58 PSI (40 PSI plus 18 lbs of boost). Additionally, if you use a fuel line that is not large enough, this can result in decreased fuel volume due to the pressure drop across the fuel feed line: 255 LPH at the pump may only result in 225 LPH at the fuel rail.

This injector sizing chart is from LMR based on NA & boosted applications
Forced-Induction @ 0.65: (19 lb x 8 x .85)/.65 = 198.8 or approx 199 hp @ 85% duty cycle

Inj Flow Rate (@ 40 psid) Naturally Aspirated hp (@ 0.50) Forced-Induction hp (@ 0.65)
19 lb/hr 258 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 199 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
24 lb/hr 326 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 251 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
30 lb/hr 408 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 314 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
32 lb/hr 435 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 335 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
34 lb/hr 462 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 356 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
36 lb/hr 490 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 377 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
38 lb/hr 516 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 398 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
39 lb/hr 530 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 408 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
42 lb/hr 571 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 439 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
44 lb/hr 598 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 460 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
47 lb/hr 639 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 492 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
60 lb/hr 816 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 628 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
72 lb/hr 979 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 753 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
80 lb/hr 1088 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 837 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
98 lb/hr 1333 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 1025 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
 

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Q) I agree that the 340lph fuel pump is too much pump. I'd go with the 255lph Walbro.
A) Still, overkill for his setup and he'll still have issues with the stock fuel pump hanger.

Q) Also I disagree on something, fuel pump does not determine injector size, how much HP you make does. Maybe Michael Plummer could explain what he said?
A) Is this better? When designing a fuel system, you need to design it around the fuel pump. Your choice of fuel pump will determine your fuel line sizes, rails, and regulator.

Thanks
Michael Plummer
 

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Q) I agree that the 340lph fuel pump is too much pump. I'd go with the 255lph Walbro.
A) Still, overkill for his setup and he'll still have issues with the stock fuel pump hanger.

Q) Also I disagree on something, fuel pump does not determine injector size, how much HP you make does. Maybe Michael Plummer could explain what he said?
A) Is this better? When designing a fuel system, you need to design it around the fuel pump. Your choice of fuel pump will determine your fuel line sizes, rails, and regulator.

Thanks
Michael Plummer
I have a Walbro GSS340 (255lph) fuel pump in my stock fuel tank in the stock hanger and ZERO issues. Please watch this video and point out the conflict between the 255lph fuel pump and stock hanger. This is possibly the most popular sized fuel pump for our 5.0. The 255lph fuel pump might be a little too much for what he wants but if he gets bit with the boost bug and wants more PSI then he may exceed the limit of a 190lph (540hp naturally aspirated, less with boost). An HCI 302 with boost can easily exceed 500 bhp.

 

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Foxbody 817,
Videos from reputable companies clearly show what your fuel looks like with an incorrect plumbed return to your fuel tank. If you think this condition doesn't present a problem let's agree to disagree because I don't have the time to go back and forth with you.

See ya
Michael Plummer
 

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As Michael said, people over complicate the pcv setups on street cars. Put a check valve in the line that goes from the manifold to the pcv valve so boost won't even hit the valve. I'd put a check valve in the brake booster line too.
Then re-route the oil filler neck vacuum/breather line so that it goes from the filler neck -> pre-supercharger, and block the inlet barb on the throttle body.
I would also recommend adding a catch can, however that won't really change the routing of your pcv system.
 
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