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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know all you 4V guys feel a little left out from a mod standpoint. I know a local guy with a '98 4V cobra. He has just about every bolt on possible, long tube headers (which are real headers), cold air kit, single bore throttle body, underdrive pulleys, and a chip. I think he has hit 290 RWHP on one of his pulls.

So, what's the problem? Why don't these cars respond to these simple mods live a 2V does.

There are a few things.

First, the whole "lacks power" thing in 1999, and even before that, was because the manufacturing guys could not make the valves and valve seats round. So, when the cylinder pressure is high they leak. This causes the loss of peak cylinder pressure and thus a loss of HP. I have personally seen an engine that made 290 HP on an engine dyno, pull the heads off, do a valve job, and the same motor made 318 HP. With just a valve job.

So, the first thing you need to do is pull the heads off and do a valve job. Then a company in Ohio called Fox Lake can do an excellent porting job. The cost for their porting job is $1200 for a set of heads. A stock 4V head flows 250 cfm of air at like .425" lift. A ported 2V head flows about the same as a stock 4V head. So, it stands to reason that a warmed over 2V will make similar power to a 4V.

Now, Fox Lake ported heads change the flow from 250 cfm to 320 cfm. In case this number doesn't mean much to you, my friend has a 832 RWHP Oldsmobile has flow numbers of 342 on the "bad" port and 355 on the "good" port. So, this much flow is enough to support alot of power.

So, this is where any of you should start in my opinion. How much power will you make with exhaust, MAF, etc? You'll gain maybe, and I mean maybe, 20 RWHP. For $2000 you can gain about 50 RWHP or even more. I know that sounds like a lot of money but I'll give it to you straight. I see you people (and that's generic you) putting more money that that into some kind of audio system, radios, speakers, amps with more wattage than a 60s Who concert. But, when it comes to power, everyone wants to spend a few hundred dollars and run 13's. Can't happen.

A Cobra manifold or a Gen 2 manifold will support more higher RPM that a set of ported heads will take advantage of. You also need to have your intake manifold extrude honed to increase flow as well.

If you get your heads ported and intake extrude honed, then add your exhaust and MAF, and you will make over 300 RWHP and will run into the 13's with no problem.

Your call as to what to do, but if I had a 4V, that's what I would do. I know someone who is planning this on a 4V as well and it will make good power.

Dennis
 

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Dennis Reinhart said:
If you had a good converter and gears, you would easily run 12's.Dennis
If we are indeed talking about a Cobra here, what converter could you be talking about? They only come as 5-speeds.

And yes, take a look at Bob Cosby . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #4
sorry this was meant for the guys with the Mark 8,
 

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To be honest, to crack open a perfectly good running 2V or 4V just to port the heads would be insane. If I hadnt blown up two engines I would still have the stock engine, I may have massaged the intake but that would be it. Dennis, for the most part the 4v engine is not the easiest to work on and to suggest that bolting on a pair of ported 4v heads is going to give you 50 rwhp is mis-leading. My suggestion is people should forget about dyno-racing and start by losing at least 300 lbs. off ther Stangs, get suspension, long tubes, gear (4.30), tune and get the intake ported. That should net you 300 rwhp.. 3100 lbs. Stang + 300 rwhp = 12.30's at 110 mph...Just my opinion...DA Snake boy!!!
 

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Dennis Reinhart said:

So, what's the problem? Why don't these cars respond to these simple mods live a 2V does.

Im confused by this statement because a 4V with only a few minor mods like K&N and pulleys can run a [email protected]+ to get a 2V into the 12's its gonna take Headswap for pre 99 cars and headwork and all the boltons to run the 12. Yes a few have done it with only bolt ons but look at their weight.


Dennis Reinhart said:


A stock 4V head flows 250 cfm of air at like .425" lift. A ported 2V head flows about the same as a stock 4V head. So, it stands to reason that a warmed over 2V will make similar power to a 4V.


Couple of points that need to be made, Peak numbers arent what you want. The 4V heads (stock) will flow way more @ .100, .200, .300 and .400 than a 2V head (ported) the best way to state my point here is Its like a Dyno graph you dont always want peak you must also be concerned with what is inbetween. This is the reason a 4V dosent compare TQ wise to a 2V. You gave numbers at .425 on 4V but remember the numbers you gave for 2V are prob at .500 lift. The heads are the reason a 4V (stock) with poweradder will kill a modded 2V with same poweradder.

Dennis Reinhart said:

How much power will you make with exhaust, MAF, etc? You'll gain maybe, and I mean maybe, 20 RWHP. For $2000 you can gain about 50 RWHP or even more.
But remember to take advantage of the head work you still need the exhaust, pulleys and mass air to take full advantage of your head work. Another reason people get bolt ons is you buy 1 piece at a time not $1200 for porting and at least another $1000 you need to spend to have motor assembled and disaasembled.


Dennis very good info youve stated in this post but just wanted to paint the full picture
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
duane v said:
To be honest, to crack open a perfectly good running 2V or 4V just to port the heads would be insane. If I hadnt blown up two engines I would still have the stock engine, I may have massaged the intake but that would be it. Dennis, for the most part the 4v engine is not the easiest to work on and to suggest that bolting on a pair of ported 4v heads is going to give you 50 rwhp is mis-leading. My suggestion is people should forget about dyno-racing and start by losing at least 300 lbs. off ther Stangs, get suspension, long tubes, gear (4.30), tune and get the intake ported. That should net you 300 rwhp.. 3100 lbs. Stang + 300 rwhp = 12.30's at 110 mph...Just my opinion...DA Snake boy!!!
Well Duane every one has there own opinion, what is complicated for some, is not the case for others, I work on the 4 v all the time and as long as you have the right tools its not that bad, I am building a motor now I will post pictures in a few days. its 20 over manly rods CP fully coated pistons botomend is ballanced with a SH stud girdle ARP main studs and head studs a set of FOX lake ported heads and a T Trim this car will make 550 or more at the wheels with a 4R70W in a Mark 8, the man who wrote the above article has more experence than most he tests every new car Made by Ford he just did the new Mustang and the new 4V Marauder, so I trust his knowledge and experince I posted this for nice reading.
 

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:D Hey Rich Im around just was on a World tour last yr. Im back to a somewhat normal life now and car will be in action real soon, hopefully with better ETs.

John
BTW I see you left PA get too cold for ya ?
 

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Well Duane every one has there own opinion, what is complicated for some, is not the case for others, I work on the 4 v all the time and as long as you have the right tools its not that bad, I am building a motor now I will post pictures in a few days. its 20 over manly rods CP fully coated pistons botomend is ballanced with a SH stud girdle ARP main studs and head studs a set of FOX lake ported heads and a T Trim this car will make 550 or more at the wheels with a 4R70W in a Mark 8, the man who wrote the above article has more experence than most he tests every new car Made by Ford he just did the new Mustang and the new 4V Marauder, so I trust his knowledge and experince I posted this for nice reading.
________

An engine with these specs and a T-Trim should make way more than 550rwhp even with an auto behind it. Chris kaiser proved this with his mark VIII when he pulled over 700rwhp with his simular engine/tranny combo.

T-trim's are notorious for blowing head gaskets to, so O-ringing the block would be another wise mod to this engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Well Joe/Ponyfreak I know it will make more and I also know who will be tuning the car, with 50 pound injectors and a inner cooler it will make more but if its set up safley for 550 at the wheels with a automatic that is awsome, and I was the first person in the US to install the S Trim and cobra 4V in a Mark 8 so after its done I will post the sheets, and Orings are not always neessary, with head studs and clean mating surfcaes but thanks for your knowledge and advice.:joy:
 

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ponyfreak said:

An engine with these specs and a T-Trim should make way more than 550rwhp even with an auto behind it. Chris kaiser proved this with his mark VIII when he pulled over 700rwhp with his simular engine/tranny combo.

T-trim's are notorious for blowing head gaskets to, so O-ringing the block would be another wise mod to this engine.
There are plenty of 4Vs running around with TTrims and Novi 2000 that dont have Oringed heads and dont pop gaskets. Joe Stewart ran 30+ pounds, Dave King ran somewhere around 25, Reggie Burdette(sp) runs 25ish and Lideo ran boat load without Oringed heads.

How do you know he will or should make more than 550RWHP maybe he is running a stock pulley and very conservative tune since car will be daily driver and its in Florida's Jungle air ?




Dennis what kinda headers are those on your car ? Very nice pieces and a true equal length header too.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Those are Mac I custom made them to fit, they work real well, and this motor I am building, will make lots more, the guy making the comment is from the LOD board where I rarley post because of other reasons, my car has inject tuning the same chips I sell, and I am running a reflashed EEC so will this 1998 with this motor so I have confidince the car will be a monster, will popst pictures soon. Thanks for your post and I agree O rings are not required.
 

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Well as an o-ringed block is not necessary I believe in doing things once. Overbuilding is not that bad of a thing.

A lot of you guys are on your 3rd engine now, and have blown countless headgaskets.

I only plan on running my S-trim to the max, but if I was to go any higher than that, I would have definatly O-ringed the block.
When big money is on the line you CANNOT afford a failure. Besides changing a head gasket in this car sucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I removed it 5/7/02
 

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NOVIFED said:
:D Hey Rich Im around just was on a World tour last yr. Im back to a somewhat normal life now and car will be in action real soon, hopefully with better ETs.

John
BTW I see you left PA get too cold for ya ?
World tour LOL. Glad to hear you getting the Blue beatie back together.

And yes, left because of the frigging cold. Nice to wake up every morning to warm sunshine and put on a pair of shorts and t-shirt to go to the office. Life has never been so good.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)




 

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Discussion Starter #20
Joe Stewart said:
Sorry but I missed the logic behind this post :confused:
Well Joe I cant help you with that. I thought it would be called nice reading, isnt that what the forum is for, and it also alows,
members to see how the 4V goes together since I planned on showing the complete s assembly in stages.
 
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