Ford Mustang Forums banner

41 - 60 of 66 Posts

·
The Lurker
Joined
·
902 Posts
XH / XE cranks should be forging's.
Right, it definitely appears to be forged. I've just never been able to find out anything about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
there were a lot of trick 60's "Ford Experimental" parts made for the "windsor" engs that some/most dont know about, unfortunately too many guys think this stuff was just for the "cleveland" and falsely give it credit. One example of is Can-Am were some assumed 351 ment "cleveland" in which the xe cleveland block design was inferior to the windsor block design in hours long road racing due to the clevelands inferior oiling system.
 

·
The Lurker
Joined
·
902 Posts
Would you know where I could find any info on this crank? I figured it was for some type of Boss 302 used in racing. Supposedly the guy I got it from said it was connected with Holman and Moody.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
the problem is not all "Ford Experimental Engineering" stuff of the 60's was documented well at the time, anything & everything could have been made and was back then, but its safe to say that much/most of it was made for > INDY-T/A-FORMULA < and other forms of Road Racing and very little to do with drag racing. Guys can get away with using factory stock inferior design parts for seconds at a time in drag racing but that does not usually work out well in real racing / hours long road racing.

btw, H-M were also involved with the making/design of the 1966 351w type xe block along with many other race parts, you may also want to check > Boss 302 Exchange < for any info on that old xe crank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
...402 Boss/Clevor ... the production engine Ford coulda/shoulda of made in the late 60's...
Boss 402.jpg
 

·
The Lurker
Joined
·
902 Posts
Thanks. When you started posting XE links and info and thought this may be closer than I've ever gotten.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
I first heard/learned about all the FXE stuff back in the early 80's, i can tell you there was some super trick things made back in the 1960's that many still dont know about today. Just one example is the late 60's FXE four valve push rod heads for the "Windsor" design blocks...

FVPR 1.jpg


there were a half doz sets of FVPR heads made for testing around the same time as the Weslake 4 valve heads came out for the sbc, fords 4 valve pushrod tech was then shelfed back then when Ford supposedly dropped all there racing programs due to the "safety" BS of the time. Later the old FVPR head design was updated with new rockers/intake and briefly reintroduced/displayed by ford back in the early 90's with the idea of selling kits through fms but dropped it again because of the new 4V Mod eng platform just coming out... btw imo the > WESLAKE < 4v pushrod design was better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
(FORD EXPERIMENTAL ENGINEERING) FXE FVPR

1932-ford-5-window-coupe (1).jpg


1932-ford-5-window-coupe (4).jpg


1932-ford-5-window-coupe (10).jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
... FXE 3 Valve tunnel port int Windsor SOHC ... Top Left Corner ... another coulda, woulda, shoulda ...

F X E.jpg
 

·
The Lurker
Joined
·
902 Posts
the problem is not all "Ford Experimental Engineering" stuff of the 60's was documented well at the time, anything & everything could have been made and was back then, but its safe to say that much/most of it was made for > INDY-T/A-FORMULA < and other forms of Road Racing and very little to do with drag racing. Guys can get away with using factory stock inferior design parts for seconds at a time in drag racing but that does not usually work out well in real racing / hours long road racing.

btw, H-M were also involved with the making/design of the 351w xe block along with many other race parts, you may also want to check > Boss 302 Exchange < for any info on that old xe crank
No luck from the Boss 302 Exchange yet with 86 views so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
again sadly, the problem is the general public does not know much of anything about the many FXE race/prototype parts of the 60's, guess you could kinda look at the "FXE" stuff as the pre "SVO" of later years but only just for ford racers.

Shelby & many others had custom FXE stuff made all the time back then, unfortunately too many guys (like 351C fanboys as an example) think all the ford racers were just using production parts which is FALSE.
xe block head crank.jpg

notice Shelbys fxe w type race block that has casting traits of todays dart/maxx copy blocks above, road racers back then were running these early xe windsor type blocks with up to a 4.085" bore and up to 4.105" in drag racing, very little of this stuff used in racing back then were production parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
some more (351) trivia for those interested... when the 1966 "351" was first made/cast there was NO "windsor" naming by Ford and this new sbf "351" actually was a sbf 352ci, with same bore/stroke spec's as Fords other fe 352ci eng so the "351" naming/designation was used to help differentiate the 2 designs. Then when another 351 was made/cast in 68/69 the racers\public were the first to use Windsor or Cleveland wording to help differentiate these 2 different designs and Ford went along with it, also a reminder, 351C & 351M eng's are actually 352ci too & then when you factor in piston clearance there all 353ci o_O lol

on a side note Fords FE 427 (that some builders first started to use to describe stroker 351's as "427ci" for the chevtard converts sake) is actually a 426ci FE eng. The factory 4.233"big bore x 3.784"short stroke 427ci FE is so far away in specs from a stroked 351ci (4.125"bore x 4.00"stroke = 428ci) that it makes no sense calling it a 427. The 351/428ci strokers are far closer in spec's to the FE 428ci (4.133"bore x 3.984"stroke) o_O lol

a real shame Shelby & DeTomaso did not get to finishing there 6.8L to 7L 427ci "windsor" based can-am 9.480" deck xe race block before Ford dropped all the racing programs...
The De Tomaso P70 to Appear During Monterey Car Week - MyCarQuest.com
 

·
The Lurker
Joined
·
902 Posts
I finally did get some responses on the Boss 302 Exchange. Turns out I was looking in the wrong place. I should have been looking at Gurney-Weslake. In my recent searching and looking for more Gurney-Weslake engine stuff I ran across Cushman Competition. Cushman Competition They have picked up where all of the old Gurney stuff left off. I think they have bought everything they could find from that era. I called Jay Cushman today and sent him some pictures and he confirms it "Looks like an ordinary early 255 crank" meaning the DOHC Indy 255 motor.

However, he did say that Holman and Moody could have acquired it as a salvager or recycler of the Indy or Ford racing parts as they often did. But he didn't go into much detail about that.

Now I just need to find out what it's worth I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
Can anyone identify this 351W?, Numbered XE, odd grooves on block face, Appears to have siamesed liners, .+030", 4 bolt mains, Piston valve cut outs appear to be for Cleveland heads (Boss 302?), Rare? or just junk?

Engine is in Ireland, but came from GB, supposedly from a race car many years ago, quite possibly from a GT40, Mirage or a Gurney Weslake,. being a race engine on this side of the pond. Not quite sure what to do with it! Not my area of expertise. Probably ideal for someone restoring an original car maybe?
Corliss, do you have anymore pics of the intake or the 4VBoss heads that were on that old 1966-67 ("clevor") 9.2" deck 351W XE race eng?, im wondering if the intake / head may of had the raised floor sk/xe 2-1/4" tall (filled port) 4VBoss race head on it?... > Edd Stevens - Bud Moore Engine specialist <
351w XE 1.JPG 351w XE 2.JPG 351w XE 3.JPG
351w XE 4.JPG 351w XE 5.JPG sk-xe raised floor 4VB race port.jpg
also wondering if you noticed if it had any billet steel main caps on it?, some road racers would upgrade these iron blocks with billet steel center caps back in the 60's/70,s strengthening stabilizing all iron 351 xe race blocks helping them handle around 750+hp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
been sifting through mixed up info on net about Shelbys/DeTomasos mid 60"s 7Litre "stretched" deck 289/351 (xe 9.480" deck 6.8L/7.0L"W" type block race eng) and every site seems to have some things right & some things wrong. I understand DeTomaso was in direct contact with the head of the 351 Mirage program and he got at least 3 (maybe more) of the xe 93532 "stretched" deck hipo 289/351 500hp dyno engs which I understood ended up with in his early first 2 dozen european Mangusta's but haven't found more info.

?ANYONE OUT THERE?...
got anymore info on Shelby's & DeTomaso's 6.8L - 7.0L "W" type alum xe race eng design?

Fantuzzi_De_Tomaso_P70_1965.jpg

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,611 Posts
just wanted to add another XE Windsor part #150985 to this thread some dont know about, Ford's own pre production ... Canted Valve Windsor Head ...
again this head is NOT a cleveland head but another late 60's 302w/351w head, this xe Windsor head did not make it to production because Ford could not get this small port 2V type head to flow well so they dropped the R&D on it and instead went with the larger port 4V Boss head...


View attachment 1056401

View attachment 1056402

View attachment 1056403

View attachment 1056404

View attachment 1056405

View attachment 1056406

View attachment 1056407

Ford had plans to use canted valve head designs on 302w/351w blocks Before they used them on the later cleveland block
Thanks for the great pictures of all real Ford parts, the history of the engines is great to hear.

Those canted valve Windsor heads there are awful, those could be the proof of the stupidity of how original Ford head designs suck. All SBF heads are decendants of those 60's original designs. Those Windsor heads have terrible intake ports, they look like the worst parts of Cleveland heads, the super low ports there and small 2V size kill air flow. The same problem exists on all Cleveland exhaust ports, they turn way too sharp downward.

The prior Windsor heads you posted had excellent exhaust ports on them. The ports were not notably bigger at all, but the outlets were angled upwards fully, short and the head bolt holes were down at the base of the head decks. Cleveland heads all have large outer bolt bosses, and the meat between where the ports are, those are too low, forcing the port downward. Thus the port plates racer's bolted on to fix those, to raise the ports.

The intake ports were all the same way, too low, they should have been up a good inch, not .300" like some aftermarket head makers say is special. No, raise them up a ton, who the hell is building a short tiny race car with no hood room. The intake manifolds also sucked, due to the horrible low port paths. All of the good intakes were aftermarket, and open and tall like the Torker and Dominator.

Ford could have built 350-427 cubic inch SBF's back in the early 70's that made 450hp, if they had fixed the port airflow paths. LS engines are based on those improvements, and NASCAR pioneered them over decades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,611 Posts
BTW, this thread got me reading with the first post, pictures, showing the screw in freeze plugs. I liked the 400-4V pictured engine bay too, that reminded me I have a 400 block with screw in freeze plugs. One of many old parts I should get rid of, taking up space. In the 80's when everything was stock parts only, nothing else available, a 400 crank put in a Windsor was unheard of. I had a friend at work that had had a 408 Windsor in his 69 Mustang, I learned that from. His "mild" 68 Bronco was scary with 3.55 gears, lifted, in 4WD.

I happened to have at that time a 400 in parts at the machine shop. I had a 70 Mustang I got to build that was already taken apart, no engine etc, so the idea of a Boss 400 sounded good. My machine shop was great back then in the late 70's and 80's, perfectionists. To them balancing was to zero, not 1 gram or any increment of it. The father/owner of the shop died not long after his son committed suicide, so my crank was lost in the time they shut down the shop. But I got the block back and never got to do the Mustang, life goes on. The block is though interesting, unfortunate that now a 400 is a useless thing. I had to pay about $100 to get the freeze plugs in, and the main caps were Milodon made for a Cleveland. So it is a 4 bolt main 400 with screw in freeze plugs. Oh well, memories.
 
41 - 60 of 66 Posts
Top