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Discussion Starter #1
Have been doing research online about options for single 2v setups out there. It seems like there are complete opposite of the spectrum. The cheaper on3 setups, or you can drop some serious coin on a Hellion/custom setup. I ran into engine issues, and may end up keeping my car and pulling engine and swapping from blower to turbo. Quick rundown of what setup would be:

97 Block, .20
Manley H beam rods, all arp hardware
Manley 18cc Platinum series pistons
cobra crank
Trickflow 44cc heads with custom grind turbo cams
Edelbrock manifold, 6061 plenum

So after doing some research online, I'm finding tons of posts from anywhere from '12-14 with people bashing the quality of on3 kits. It seems like the few I'm finding more recently online suggest quality has gotten better. Does anybody have first hand experience with on3 piping? If I went through with this, I would definitely run an upgraded turbo, probably a precision, and upgraded components such as bov, wastegate, etc. But what about just the piping from on3? The next stage of the spectrum I'm reading great things about C&G Fab, which the quality does look awesome. But for a car that gets driven a few times a year, and is just a street warrior, cruiser...would this drastic price difference be worth the cost? Also, what are the differences and benefits of upgrading the material of the material say from mild steel to stainless? Just for heat/rusting purposes?

When it comes to turbo, because this is such a small cube motor, would say something like a 76mm be a good fit for a street car but capable of being 700+rwhp through an auto?

Any input and advice on the above would be greatly appreciated. I've been a blower guy the entire time I've been in the modular game, so am a bit new to turbos. Thanks in advance
 

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Benefits of SS over Mild Steel are they won't rust out so they don't need coated but they do discolor and turn brown. They are supposed to retain some additional heat inside the pipes to aid spooling but on a street car will you REALLY notice? If you're going to wrap the pipes then you don't need to coat SS but you do/should coat mild steel although some will argue you don't.

Some things to ponder:
-If you buy a SS kit and it doesn’t fit, can you modify and weld SS? If not then you may be screwed with the ON3 kit b/c it’s 304SS. The CG kit comes in mild or SS. I bought the mild steel headers from CG when building my TT setup.

-If you think you may need to modify a kit then don’t get it coated. Have it done after you verify that it all fits like it should. You don’t want to buy a kit that is coated then cut/reweld it then have it coated again.

-Can you run a front sway bar with the On3 kit? The CG kit you cannot. Maybe you won’t need one, I dunno.

-Do you need front coilovers to run either kit? The CG kit only gives you the downpipes off the turbos. You’ll need to fab it up to the mufflers. With the ON3 kit it looks like you get the exhaust back to the cat-back pipes…?

-The ON3 kit looks very complete for $2000 but it does use mild steel headers even though the rest of the pipes are SS.

-My passenger side CG header hit the frame and I had to modify/notch the frame to clear it. Plan on doing this just to be safe but some people don’t have issues. Maybe the ON3 is the same way, I dunno.

Price wise the ON3 kit looks the best value but unless you can weld SS this could be an issue if you need to modify it.

Turbos:
Before purchasing an off the self turbo give Brian Bissonette a shout. He can probably build you a custom billet turbo a lot cheaper than buying one off the shelf and it will give you some extra $$ towards a turbo kit. Great guy to deal with too.

https://www.facebook.com/Bisons-Perf...4136287790854/


ks
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Benefits of SS over Mild Steel are they won't rust out so they don't need coated but they do discolor and turn brown. They are supposed to retain some additional heat inside the pipes to aid spooling but on a street car will you REALLY notice? If you're going to wrap the pipes then you don't need to coat SS but you do/should coat mild steel although some will argue you don't.

Some things to ponder:
-If you buy a SS kit and it doesn’t fit, can you modify and weld SS? If not then you may be screwed with the ON3 kit b/c it’s 304SS. The CG kit comes in mild or SS. I bought the mild steel headers from CG when building my TT setup.

-If you think you may need to modify a kit then don’t get it coated. Have it done after you verify that it all fits like it should. You don’t want to buy a kit that is coated then cut/reweld it then have it coated again.

-Can you run a front sway bar with the On3 kit? The CG kit you cannot. Maybe you won’t need one, I dunno.

-Do you need front coilovers to run either kit? The CG kit only gives you the downpipes off the turbos. You’ll need to fab it up to the mufflers. With the ON3 kit it looks like you get the exhaust back to the cat-back pipes…?

-The ON3 kit looks very complete for $2000 but it does use mild steel headers even though the rest of the pipes are SS.

-My passenger side CG header hit the frame and I had to modify/notch the frame to clear it. Plan on doing this just to be safe but some people don’t have issues. Maybe the ON3 is the same way, I dunno.

Price wise the ON3 kit looks the best value but unless you can weld SS this could be an issue if you need to modify it.

Turbos:
Before purchasing an off the self turbo give Brian Bissonette a shout. He can probably build you a custom billet turbo a lot cheaper than buying one off the shelf and it will give you some extra $$ towards a turbo kit. Great guy to deal with too.

https://www.facebook.com/Bisons-Perf...4136287790854/


ks
Thanks for all the great info. Turbo world is really very different from the blower world I come from. I have read many of your threads, and you really did some great work on your car. Those are all great points you bring up, and obviously I have a lot of research to do. Is Hellion still a very well setup kit that people are having success with? I'll look into your contact for the turbo as well. More than likely I think something like a 76mm will suit me perfectly for what my plans are with the car.
 

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Thanks for all the great info. Turbo world is really very different from the blower world I come from. I have read many of your threads, and you really did some great work on your car. Those are all great points you bring up, and obviously I have a lot of research to do. Is Hellion still a very well setup kit that people are having success with? I'll look into your contact for the turbo as well. More than likely I think something like a 76mm will suit me perfectly for what my plans are with the car.
I don't know anything about Hellion hopefully someone can give firsthand experience with them.

Feel free to pick my brain. I've learned a lot with this car and now that I have redone about everything on it I can certainly give you one perspective based on my experience.

Turbos are really nice and I'm really glad I designed my own kit to my own specs but it's not cheap, easy or quick doing it this way.

ks
 

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I've always built my own kits. You can literally build a hot side kit for less than $300 out of mild steel. It is time consuming and the initial cost of tools is what steer people away. Also depending on what manufacturer a 76mm may be over kill for 700rwhp. A precision 6768, borg sxe 366, or sxe 369 would be my choice. I'm at 550rwhp with my standard s366 on pump gas 260ci motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've always built my own kits. You can literally build a hot side kit for less than $300 out of mild steel. It is time consuming and the initial cost of tools is what steer people away. Also depending on what manufacturer a 76mm may be over kill for 700rwhp. A precision 6768, borg sxe 366, or sxe 369 would be my choice. I'm at 550rwhp with my standard s366 on pump gas 260ci motor.
Yeah to be honest, I would be in the same boat. I have no problem doing the engine work/installing the turbo setup...but I think custom fabbing the piping may be a bit out of my league. I'll definitely look into those other turbo's you mentioned.

I have a AIS 3 gallon trunk mount meth system that I was running 50/50 with on my car, and have an NX plate kit I was planning on slapping on top of this blower setup. Since I'm converting to turbo, will any of this stuff really be necessary for say a 700rwhp turbo auto car?
 

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Yeah to be honest, I would be in the same boat. I have no problem doing the engine work/installing the turbo setup...but I think custom fabbing the piping may be a bit out of my league. I'll definitely look into those other turbo's you mentioned.

I have a AIS 3 gallon trunk mount meth system that I was running 50/50 with on my car, and have an NX plate kit I was planning on slapping on top of this blower setup. Since I'm converting to turbo, will any of this stuff really be necessary for say a 700rwhp turbo auto car?
Keep the meth..It's great insurance from detonation and since you already have it..... We made about 25-30 dyno pulls when tuning my car and with a single M15 we only used 1.5 gal of meth from the 3 gal tank in the trunk.

Sell the N2O and put it towards a Safegaurd Knock Detector.:nerd:

ks
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Keep the meth..It's great insurance from detonation and since you already have it..... We made about 25-30 dyno pulls when tuning my car and with a single M15 we only used 1.5 gal of meth from the 3 gal tank in the trunk.

Sell the N2O and put it towards a Safegaurd Knock Detector.:nerd:

ks
I had a crazy 3 nozzle setup for my blower, 1 pre blower and 2 pre throttle body. On a turbo setup, would something like just one nozzle pre-throttle body usually suffice?
 

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I've always built my own kits. You can literally build a hot side kit for less than $300 out of mild steel. It is time consuming and the initial cost of tools is what steer people away. Also depending on what manufacturer a 76mm may be over kill for 700rwhp. A precision 6768, borg sxe 366, or sxe 369 would be my choice. I'm at 550rwhp with my standard s366 on pump gas 260ci motor.
I think s300 series are to small of a turbo for a 2v. S472 sxe turbo with the right AR would be easy to spool , hit his hp goal and still leave him room to grow .

With all the pipe bends that are available from different suppliers it's really not hard to make a custom kit anymore. If you can mig weld then stainless or mild steel should be no problem. Just by stainless wire for a mig and you will be fine. I would recommend buying a set of headers instead of trying to fab up your own.
 

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I had a crazy 3 nozzle setup for my blower, 1 pre blower and 2 pre throttle body. On a turbo setup, would something like just one nozzle pre-throttle body usually suffice?
That would depend on how large the nozzle is and pump pressure. I haven't got to log my meth pressure yet but I think my Alky Control pump is maxed at 150psi and it was flowing at max psi by 6psi of boost to keep detonation away based on the SafeGuard. Based on how my car performed my single M15 isn't enough for 735hp and 91oct/100% meth so I will be installing a second nozzle.

My nozzles are installed pre-TB but after the air temp sensor.

ks
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think s300 series are to small of a turbo for a 2v. S472 sxe turbo with the right AR would be easy to spool , hit his hp goal and still leave him room to grow .

With all the pipe bends that are available from different suppliers it's really not hard to make a custom kit anymore. If you can mig weld then stainless or mild steel should be no problem. Just by stainless wire for a mig and you will be fine. I would recommend buying a set of headers instead of trying to fab up your own.
Thanks again for the advice. I'll look into all of your suggestions.

That would depend on how large the nozzle is and pump pressure. I haven't got to log my meth pressure yet but I think my Alky Control pump is maxed at 150psi and it was flowing at max psi by 6psi of boost to keep detonation away based on the SafeGuard. Based on how my car performed my single M15 isn't enough for 735hp and 91oct/100% meth so I will be installing a second nozzle.

My nozzles are installed pre-TB but after the air temp sensor.

ks
Good stuff. I'll hold onto my meth system for now than and probably run a dual nozzle setup pre-throttle body. Is it common to run the nozzles post-IAT sensor? On my blower setup I was running them pre-IAT kind of as a safeguard, where as the IAT would pull timing if something wasn't right
 

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I'm not sure what the standard is I think it depends on which kit you use. I do it post temp sensor but the tuner tunes the engine manually based on KNOCK, AF and HP. If he didn't do it manually then the cars computer would pull timing due to the increased heat that it is registering since the meth isn't hitting the sensor and power falls off drastically.

One concern I have is if the achy hits the sensor then the engine will add timing b/c of the extra cooling affect. But what if the computer adds too much timing b/c it thinks the air is cooler than it really is? If the computer is wrong then it will knock. Maybe it isn't an issue, I dunno. I like my setup where I tune by watching the knock gauge that way I know what is going on inside each cylinder.

As long as the tuner knows what to do and you have enough electronics to monitor what's going on it doesn't matter, IMO.


ks
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not sure what the standard is I think it depends on which kit you use. I do it post temp sensor but the tuner tunes the engine manually based on KNOCK, AF and HP. If he didn't do it manually then the cars computer would pull timing due to the increased heat that it is registering since the meth isn't hitting the sensor and power falls off drastically.

One concern I have is if the achy hits the sensor then the engine will add timing b/c of the extra cooling affect. But what if the computer adds too much timing b/c it thinks the air is cooler than it really is? If the computer is wrong then it will knock. Maybe it isn't an issue, I dunno. I like my setup where I tune by watching the knock gauge that way I know what is going on inside each cylinder.

As long as the tuner knows what to do and you have enough electronics to monitor what's going on it doesn't matter, IMO.


ks
Thank you again for all the info. I appreciate it. The more research I do, I am starting to lean towards a Hellion setup with an upgraded turbo from the turbonetics. Only thing I'd have to figure out is it looks like they use factory manifolds, which I got rid of mine years ago because I run long tubes. So I'm sure I could just get a nice ceramic shorty header to run instead. Do you have any knowledge on how these bumper exit exhaust setups are run? Is it literally just right from the down pipe, exiting the bumper? So no running any sort of mid pipe or cutback at all?
 

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Thank you again for all the info. I appreciate it. The more research I do, I am starting to lean towards a Hellion setup with an upgraded turbo from the turbonetics. Only thing I'd have to figure out is it looks like they use factory manifolds, which I got rid of mine years ago because I run long tubes. So I'm sure I could just get a nice ceramic shorty header to run instead. Do you have any knowledge on how these bumper exit exhaust setups are run? Is it literally just right from the down pipe, exiting the bumper? So no running any sort of mid pipe or cutback at all?
I'm not sure how the exhaust runs. Some are literally dumped in front of the front tire.
Which Hellion kit were you looking at, link?

ks
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm not sure how the exhaust runs. Some are literally dumped in front of the front tire.
Which Hellion kit were you looking at, link?

ks
Well, it will either be the first or second. I have a '97 GT body, but my heads will be TF which are PI style heads. So I'm not sure if I would need the 96-98 kit, or the 99-04. It's possible they may categorize them different do to different front suspension parts? But it will either be the first or second depending on the actual year kit I need:

96-98:
96-98 Mustang GT Single Turbo System - 350 to 850 HP

99-04:
99-04 Mustang GT Single Turbo System - 350 to 850 HP

More than likely, I would upgrade to the Precision 76mm billet wheel turbo. Still reading up on ball bearing upgrades to see if that would be money well spent. Still reading up on which BOV/Wastegate are popular and well constructed so I don't waste my money on that too. I currently already have a Vortech Mondo BOV, but I'll sell that for the best turbo BOV for this system. I already have an HPX Blow thru MAF, so I may have to do some research about if I can convert this kit to blow thru. I already have SD 60# injectors, but I'll most likely upgrade to 80's.
 

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It looks like the pipes tuck up to the bottom of the kmember but make sure you have ground clearance for them.

I also have #80's and an HPX but I can't wait to get rid of the MAF once I get the Megasquirt up and running. The #80's will be fine especially since you'll be adding meth.

My car came with EMUSA Waste Gates and so far so good. Not sure of the blowoff valve tho.
I'm using an Eboost 2 for boost control. Too damn complicated for me but it works good.

ks
 

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why would you want to downgrade from the factory ecu to a megasquirt?
 

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