HP Turbo Kit Upgrade - Borg Warner ST80 **Pictures included!** - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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HP Turbo Kit Upgrade - Borg Warner ST80 **Pictures included!**

OK, my car can be seen here - https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=925968

With the standard HP Turbo kit and a Precision PT76GTS turbo, it put down right at 730rwhp. Well, I wanted to upgrade the turbo, but realized that this would require me doing some additional work to the downpipe and cold side pipes. In fact, I tried to do it last year with a PT88, but found the length of that turbo to be prohibitive. Then I came across this Borg Warner ST80. I have read nothing but great things about this turbo. In fact, there is a guy on LS1Tech that made over 120rwhp more when he switched from a pt76gts to this ST80 unit - at the same boost level of 20#'s. I'm hoping for those same results... We will see. The car is supposed to be dynoed today. I'll let you know how it goes.

Here are some pictures...



I had to do some additional trimming in the fender area to make this turbo fit... Also, I had to have a larger downpipe made because the outlet on the hotside of the ST80 is 4inches.... We just remade the top part of the downpipe and slipped it over the existing part, which is 3.5inches down by the header. Additionally, the new part is made out of 304 stainless steel.



You will notice also that I added a 50mm Tial blow-off valve as well.



Here you can see the aluminum pipes. We reversed the direction that the pipes go into the intercooler. Now the pipe going from the turbo goes into the TOP of the intercooler and the pipe sending the air to the throttlebody now exits at the bottom of the intercooler. This makes for a cleaner look in my opinion. Also, we put a v-band clamp connecting the pipe going to the throttlebody and the pipe coming out of the intercooler. I had some problems with this area before because the hose coupler would blow off under big boost, and it was really hard to get at it in the fender. Well, problem solved with the v-band.



Big thanks goes out to my friends at C.A.R.S. High Performance in Waterford, MI for doing the great work. Sean is the man. check out their website - www.carshighperformance.com

Turbo is available through Jose at www.forcedinductions.com

If you have any questions about what we did here, or need any help, just reply in the thread and I'll try to answer any questions that you have. I promise not to tell you to use the search button first!

Qikazz


'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s

Last edited by qikazz; 02-13-2008 at 12:24 PM.
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post #2 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 05:50 PM
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Nice. What exhaust flange? t4? A/R?

I am starting a custom kit with a S400SX t6 1.10. I can not wait to get it done and on the road. I bought the Borg Warner after reading and hearing all the good things about them. And the price is great as well!

Good luck with it. Keep us posted.


Mike 1986 Capri street car w/ a/c, p/s & p/w
Custom built T6 80mm s400sx based kit Shaunthony's built (Twin Trouble and Anthony Fury)
9.31 @ 146 1.39 60' on drag radials @ 3735# Kurgan tuned AEM EMS
80mm 718rwhp new 88mm 921rwhp No new track times yet
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post #3 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Nice. What exhaust flange? t4? A/R?

I am starting a custom kit with a S400SX t6 1.10. I can not wait to get it done and on the road. I bought the Borg Warner after reading and hearing all the good things about them. And the price is great as well!

Good luck with it. Keep us posted.
Yes, it is still a T4 flanged hotside. Its a 1.10A/R I thought about switching to a t-6, but decided it wasn't worth it to me at this time.

A buddy of mine just made over 700rwhp with the exact same turbo you have on a 300ci 4 valve modular motor. He just sent the turbo back to Bulls Eye turbo and had them upgrade the cold side to the same 80mm wheel that is in my turbo. He had the race cover put on as well. He should put down some really big numbers.


qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #4 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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OK, the car is on the dyno as I'm typing. Here's where we are so far...

1. The car just made a tad over 700rwhp @ 16lbs of boost. Keep in mind, it made 730rwhp @ 21lbs of boost with the pt76gts. So, it looks like this thing is going to make quite a bit more steam.

2. The car is breaking up above 6000rpms right now. We are trying to determine why...We think that it may possibly be the TFI module on the distributor. We have a call in to AEM right now (since its still early afternoon in California where they are) to see if we can by-pass the TFI altogether and just run a signal directly to the MSD box. Sean thinks that the AEM box is capable of doing this. We will see.

3. My converter is still waaaaayyyyyy to loose. Doing the math, it appears that it is slipping about 22% right now, which is just ridiculous. It irks me because I just had this thing restalled, too.

I'll report back when we know more.

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #5 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 07:02 PM
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I agree it could be the tfi module as I have known those to start running into issues in the higher hp's. What box are you running?

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post #6 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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I agree it could be the tfi module as I have known those to start running into issues in the higher hp's. What box are you running?
TFI seems to be ok. We checked a bunch of things, but finally changed the sparkplugs, and added some fuel up top of the pull. Now the car pulls cleanly all the way to redline.

At this point, we are tired and going home. The tune will be finished tomorrow. Car should make some good power tomorrow. We're hoping for about 850rwhp.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #7 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 09:33 PM
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I forgot what tranny you are running. I think it is an AOD. How do you like it on the sreet?

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post #8 of 197 Old 02-05-2008, 11:57 PM
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1979 Mustang coupe, EFI 393, A/A intercooled Eaton m122, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swapped in.

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post #9 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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I forgot what tranny you are running. I think it is an AOD. How do you like it on the sreet?
Yes, I'm running an AOD. So far, it is holding up, but we will see how it does during the course of the summer.

As far as street driving it, its great. With the 3.27 gear, 28inch tall tire, and overdrive, this thing loafs down the highway. At 65mph the rpm's are in the 1900 area.

Also, the overdrive is on a toggle switch. So, until you flip the switch, it is basically your typical three-speed trans.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #10 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 11:20 AM
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who built your AOD...

im hoping my 4R70W holds similar power


after seeing results like this i wonder how hard it would be for me to drop my T76 Turbonetics and go BW ST80


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post #11 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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who built your AOD...

im hoping my 4R70W holds similar power


after seeing results like this i wonder how hard it would be for me to drop my T76 Turbonetics and go BW ST80
My AOD has the 4R70W internals. So essentially, its a 4R70W except for the case. It was built locally by a guy name Richie Sorrel. The guy I'm working with at C.A.R.S. also builds a great AOD.

If you can off your Turbonectics turbo, it might be a good move for you. I don't know what you would have to do to make it fit on your car since you have a different turbo kit than me, but I imagine that it could be made to work.

qikazz

ps. one other thing I want to mention to you. I notice in your sig that you have 75# injectors. Well, if you put this ST80 on your car, I can gaurantee you that you will not have enough injector. In fact, a friend of mine has a very similar setup as what you are running right now (except he has the Borg Warner turbo) with 96lb injectors and he is going to have to upgrade to larger ones, probably 160s.

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s

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subscribing. Keep us all posted soon!

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post #13 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 12:36 PM
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wow great job it looks good, I have an HP kit on my car and I will be doing a similar swap to a BW SX85 so the info and pics are what I was looking for. I wasn`t sure how it would fit.

Thanks
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Yes, it is still a T4 flanged hotside. Its a 1.10A/R I thought about switching to a t-6, but decided it wasn't worth it to me at this time.

A buddy of mine just made over 700rwhp with the exact same turbo you have on a 300ci 4 valve modular motor. He just sent the turbo back to Bulls Eye turbo and had them upgrade the cold side to the same 80mm wheel that is in my turbo. He had the race cover put on as well. He should put down some really big numbers.


qikazz
Cool. Do you measure back pressure anywhere? The reason I choose the S400SX is the fact it uses a 5" exhaust outlet. We want to run a 5" strait down pipe for over 24" and then split into a dual 3.5" exhaust. That and 1 3/4" headers will be used. We wanted to make sure the restriction was the turbine wheel and not the exhaust. 5" is a little over kill to start with being i am looking for 1000fwhp to start with. But if I upgrade I will be covered on the exhaust side for more HP.

The SX80 seems to make a lot of power. And it looks like you are making good power with lower boost. You should make some good power once you put full boost and tune it. Good luck. Keep us posted.

Mike 1986 Capri street car w/ a/c, p/s & p/w
Custom built T6 80mm s400sx based kit Shaunthony's built (Twin Trouble and Anthony Fury)
9.31 @ 146 1.39 60' on drag radials @ 3735# Kurgan tuned AEM EMS
80mm 718rwhp new 88mm 921rwhp No new track times yet
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post #15 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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wow great job it looks good, I have an HP kit on my car and I will be doing a similar swap to a BW SX85 so the info and pics are what I was looking for. I wasn`t sure how it would fit.

Thanks
Thanks. Do you have a T-6 hotside on your car, or still have the t-4 flange on your kit?

qikazz

ps. the guy who did these coldside pipes for me as well as the downpipe was going to jig all these changes so that anyone else who wanted to do this could just order them right from him. If you are interested, give him a call at the number at the top of the thread.

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s

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Cool. Do you measure back pressure anywhere? The reason I choose the S400SX is the fact it uses a 5" exhaust outlet. We want to run a 5" strait down pipe for over 24" and then split into a dual 3.5" exhaust. That and 1 3/4" headers will be used. We wanted to make sure the restriction was the turbine wheel and not the exhaust. 5" is a little over kill to start with being i am looking for 1000fwhp to start with. But if I upgrade I will be covered on the exhaust side for more HP.

The SX80 seems to make a lot of power. And it looks like you are making good power with lower boost. You should make some good power once you put full boost and tune it. Good luck. Keep us posted.

No way of measuring backpressure for me. I know that it is breathing better right now because it immediately developed a lean spot on throttle tip-in. The tuner said that this is because of less backpressure with the new turbo.

The guy on LS1Tech measured backpressure when he switched and saw a significant drop.

You will definately not have to worry about this issue on your setup! I decided not to switch only because I heard from several sources that it isn't a really big issue for cars making less than 1000hp. I know that it would help me some, but just wasn't worth it to me at this time. The good thing about you having it now is that you never have to worry about it again.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #17 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 02:17 PM
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No way of measuring backpressure for me. I know that it is breathing better right now because it immediately developed a lean spot on throttle tip-in. The tuner said that this is because of less backpressure with the new turbo.

The guy on LS1Tech measured backpressure when he switched and saw a significant drop.

You will definately not have to worry about this issue on your setup! I decided not to switch only because I heard from several sources that it isn't a really big issue for cars making less than 1000hp. I know that it would help me some, but just wasn't worth it to me at this time. The good thing about you having it now is that you never have to worry about it again.

qikazz
That was part of the reason to do a custom it. Make sure it was designed as best as we could. I will datalog the back pressure pre and post turbo with the AEM EMS. Should be nice. With that data we can select a different cam and exhaust wheel if needed. The set up should leave me a lot of room to grow. haha

I read that post on the ls1 site a while ago. That is good to see the back pressure dropped in that application. I do not doubt you are seeing the same results.

Now go get us some new dyno numbers. hahaha

Mike 1986 Capri street car w/ a/c, p/s & p/w
Custom built T6 80mm s400sx based kit Shaunthony's built (Twin Trouble and Anthony Fury)
9.31 @ 146 1.39 60' on drag radials @ 3735# Kurgan tuned AEM EMS
80mm 718rwhp new 88mm 921rwhp No new track times yet
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post #18 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 05:31 PM
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The turbo will be the T4 1.10 with the race cover. I`m going to neck the exhaust to use the 3.5 DP from the kit like you did. I`m just working out the details now with the engine build befor I pick up the turbo.
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post #19 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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The turbo will be the T4 1.10 with the race cover. I`m going to neck the exhaust to use the 3.5 DP from the kit like you did. I`m just working out the details now with the engine build befor I pick up the turbo.
Well, I have think that I have bad news for you.... That race cover will not fit in the location that the HP kit puts the turbo. That cover is a full one-inch taller than the one on my car.

If you look at the pictures on my car, you will see that the turbo sits just inside the fender, but not all the way inside the fender. In order to fit that cover we would have had to cut off the top of the fender.

My buddy has a Borg Warner SX80 with the race cover on it and it WOULD NOT fit on my car.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s

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post #20 of 197 Old 02-06-2008, 07:19 PM
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I didn`t want to here that, I thought your turbo had the race cover it`s a slip fit right??
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I didn`t want to here that, I thought your turbo had the race cover it`s a slip fit right??
Yes, it is a slip fit that v-bands on, just like the race cover. The two covers look very similar. In fact, when he got his turbo I said to him, "Those two covers look the same..." Then we got them side-by-side and could see the difference in height between them. It is significant, especially at the top part of the scroll where it sits right under the lip of the cut-out portion of the fender.

I don't know, maybe you can come up with a way to make it fit. I just know that we couldn't do it. I wanted to run that cover because it is supposed to worth as much as 100 more horses, but I just couldn't.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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I have kind of a side question for you qikazz. When you had the 76gts how much room did you have between the bottom of the turbo and the frame rail? I am putting a 351(and t76gts) in my car and I planned on dropping the K-member one inch to get some more hood clearance. If there was at least one inch between the turbo and frame rail on you car I am hoping I will be ok. Sorry about wandering off topic.

Jess

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post #23 of 197 Old 02-07-2008, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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I have kind of a side question for you qikazz. When you had the 76gts how much room did you have between the bottom of the turbo and the frame rail? I am putting a 351(and t76gts) in my car and I planned on dropping the K-member one inch to get some more hood clearance. If there was at least one inch between the turbo and frame rail on you car I am hoping I will be ok. Sorry about wandering off topic.

Jess
Jess,

No problem. Well, I think you will be able to do that without running into interference with the frame rail. There is definately at least an inch there, but I don't want to promise anything... I would give you an 80% chance that you will have no problem there.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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how much did the car put down with the new turbo compared to the 76.
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post #25 of 197 Old 02-07-2008, 09:00 PM
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updated #'s? Curious to see. Borg warner is working on some modified turbo's for the race side of things.

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post #26 of 197 Old 02-07-2008, 10:41 PM
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got a compressor map for it ???

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post #27 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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OK, here's where we are so far....

The car has put down just a tad over 700rwhp with 13degrees of total timing and 16lbs of boost. Torque is right at 600ftlbs... This is nearly what it did before with the pt76gts @ 21lbs of boost and 16degrees of timing.

So, we know that it is going to make more steam.

However, we are having a problem with the ignition. It is breaking up over 6000rpm's and we can see through the AEM box that the ignition is at its limit. As soon as we back the car down to about 13lbs of boost and its making about 650hp, the car will pull cleanly all the way to redline with no problem. Yes, it has fresh plugs gapped at .25 and the ignition stuff is almost brand new. Others have made these Ford ignitions go farther, I know. But for some reason, this is it for me.

So, we are switching it over to a GM "coil on plug" ignition. I thought about upgrading to the MSD digital 7, but that thing is really expensive and supposedly won't last on the street. I know guys do it, but I don't want to be replacing parts this summer again.

The AEM box that I have has the capability of running the GM coils. Plus, they now make a unit that goes in the place of the distributor (looks like a distributor without plug wires) that takes care of timing, so you don't have to run a crank trigger. I just bought a set of the really hot (as in spark-hot) GM truck coils and we will install them as soon as they get here. These coils will support enormous cylinder pressures and guys have made as much as 1900hp with them. Plus, they are designed to go 100k miles, so they ought to last.

What we plan to do is install the coils in the back of the engine bay on the lower part of the fire-wall, out of sight. We will run the wires to the plugs from the back and bottom of the headers and plugs, which will work perfectly with the car being a turbo and the headers facing forward. This should be pretty cool. When you look at the front of the engine bay, you won't see any sparkplug wires at all... Should provide for some nice confusing looks at the local car shows

Once we get the change made, we'll fire it up again and let 'er fly and I'll let you know how it does.

qikazz

ps. for r.barn - I don't have a map, but I know that the turbo flows 120lbs. per minute, which is getting dang close to what a GT47-88 flows, and is considerably more than what the pt76gts flows.

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #28 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 10:54 AM
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what plugs and heat range are you using when the car breaks up? current ignition system?


ps. I like your warning at the bottom
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post #29 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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what plugs and heat range are you using when the car breaks up? current ignition system?


ps. I like your warning at the bottom


Papis, what's up man? Good to hear from you. Ya, you like the warning, huh? I got so sick of smartazz's over on that sight. In fact, I got into it with a couple of the know-it-all moderators, too. Finally, I said, "I'm out of here. I don't need this kind of attitude from people." I always try to help people out. On that website, the only help that a lot of people (usually the old regulars who think they know everything) offer people is "USE THE F###### SEARCH BUTTON..." I saw that in so many threads it made me sick. Finally, when some idiot came into my thread with that attitude, I went off on him... I refuse to go back to that site. Oh, and you'll like this too, when I told them that I wanted my membership on that site gone, guess what they did? They banned me.

How do you like that? I even sent Trent an email telling him that I wanted the picture of my car taken down and my name removed from his site. I also asked him why I was banned if I told them I was leaving. His reply? "When someone says they want to leave, we just ban them because it is easier." What a complete and total IDIOT...

I'm running Autolite 3923s in the car. I've run them for years. They are a pretty cold plug. Also, I'm running the MSD Digital 6 box and coil. I called MSD and they told me I was at the limit of what that box will support.

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s

Last edited by qikazz; 02-08-2008 at 12:25 PM.
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post #30 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 12:29 PM
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Nice numbers so far. That sucks you are having issues. That is one nice thing about the AEM, it have so many features to it. Keep us posted on that as well.

How is spool up on the st80? When do you see boost with it? Max boost? And what RPM does your converter stall to? Part of the reason we didn't go with a 80mm wheel on my turbo was we wanted to keep the spool up as low in the rpm as possible for the street. So I would be interested to see where you spool at with similar cubes.

Mike 1986 Capri street car w/ a/c, p/s & p/w
Custom built T6 80mm s400sx based kit Shaunthony's built (Twin Trouble and Anthony Fury)
9.31 @ 146 1.39 60' on drag radials @ 3735# Kurgan tuned AEM EMS
80mm 718rwhp new 88mm 921rwhp No new track times yet
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post #31 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 01:24 PM
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do you have drop mounts ?? or a drop k-member is there room to lower the motor down do you think that there would be enough room then for the race cover
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post #32 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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do you have drop mounts ?? or a drop k-member is there room to lower the motor down do you think that there would be enough room then for the race cover
No, I don't have drop mounts. That might just work for you now that you mention it. The only way to know is to give it a try

qikazz

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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post #33 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 03:50 PM
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cool thanks again. I`m going to try the race cover, trying to go big power so I will make it fit
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post #34 of 197 Old 02-08-2008, 11:02 PM
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Jess,

No problem. Well, I think you will be able to do that without running into interference with the frame rail. There is definately at least an inch there, but I don't want to promise anything... I would give you an 80% chance that you will have no problem there.

qikazz
Thanks. I thought it looked like there would be enough room. Good luck with the new ignition, I am looking forward to seeing some pics.

Jess

1979 Mustang coupe, EFI 393, A/A intercooled Eaton m122, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swapped in.

1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars, tunnel ram with two Predator carbs, solid roller cam, 9", 390/45r15 drag radials.
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post #35 of 197 Old 02-09-2008, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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cool thanks again. I`m going to try the race cover, trying to go big power so I will make it fit
Well, with that 85mm, you should have no problem making some outrageous power

'91 mod motor, turbocharged notchback, mid-8s... (SOLD)
'91 331ci GT, twin 76mm turbos, hopefully mid-7s...
'03 Evo, 2.0L, 68mm turbo, AWD street terror, mid-9s
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