351w limits w/turbo - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 12-26-2007, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
351w limits w/turbo

I need some opinions based on other members personal experiences.... I just got my car running last week after working on it for a year building my own turbo kit and so on. My block is a 1977 351w that cleaned up at .30 and was bored to .35,its girdled,all 4340 internals.. Comp is 8.47:1... Im usin an S400 on my setup and making [email protected] 11lbs boost on 93 octane...... My question is this..... How much more HP can I make before I run the risk of cracking the block? Car was tuned by Mike Murillo and he said 700 to 800 but Iv heard of 1100 on a windsor using a turbo... What are some of yall's experiences with this... Thanks again. Vince


Last edited by vincec3002; 12-26-2007 at 11:43 PM.
vincec3002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 12-26-2007, 11:42 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
From what I've heard you are already walking the line
of blowing a stock block.

If you think about it 800hp is damn good for stock casting.
1000hp really needs an aftermarket block if you want it to last.

I have friends making 800rwhp on stock 302 casting that everyone
says will blow up past 500rwhp and it hasn't split ........ YET


Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 12-26-2007, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
Thanks r.barn-I reckognize the name from TTF or somewhere...Well if youre from Houston,you know Garret.. Mr. Oddball? He claims he made 1100 on a stock 351w block 393 that lasted for 2 years befor givin up the ghost... Im just wondering what I can do with my setup on 18lbs boost and racefuel or AV gas. Dave at Majestic said the turbo should make 1000 at the flywheel with my setup but is that common or just a freak-YET thing? 1000 at the flywheel? Thanks again man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn View Post
From what I've heard you are already walking the line
of blowing a stock block.

If you think about it 800hp is damn good for stock casting.
1000hp really needs an aftermarket block if you want it to last.

I have friends making 800rwhp on stock 302 casting that everyone
says will blow up past 500rwhp and it hasn't split ........ YET

Last edited by vincec3002; 12-26-2007 at 11:55 PM.
vincec3002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 Old 12-26-2007, 11:56 PM
Registered User
 
xr8240's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sydney..Australia/Morrinsville New Zealand
Posts: 705
On dyno is different street ..
The older 351 is much stronger than roller 5.0...
With good rotating assembly and balanced right...With good tune 800 h.p....I have seen few 351 Windsor go way above that on dyno comps though...

1991 XR8 Australian Falcon TFS induction
2014 Falcon GTE Supercharged Coyote

85 Lb inj Custom cam ,P 2000 Haltech ecu...4x's 2 coil wasted spark ignition.Twin SC 61-2s with Dart block, 330/4340 Crank, Oliver rods,7.9/ comp c C.P pistons.. 482 rwkw/ 646 rwhp..A.P 4 pot brakes...TKO
xr8240 is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
Thanks for the reply... 800 is your number too then? Thanks man for takin the time to post..
Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8240 View Post
On dyno is different street ..
The older 351 is much stronger than roller 5.0...
With good rotating assembly and balanced right...With good tune 800 h.p....I have seen few 351 Windsor go way above that on dyno comps though...
vincec3002 is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 03:54 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn View Post
From what I've heard you are already walking the line
of blowing a stock block.

If you think about it 800hp is damn good for stock casting.
1000hp really needs an aftermarket block if you want it to last.

I have friends making 800rwhp on stock 302 casting that everyone
says will blow up past 500rwhp and it hasn't split ........ YET
What stock casting 302 block is it?
mootang is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 10:35 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincec3002 View Post
Thanks r.barn-I reckognize the name from TTF or somewhere...Well if youre from Houston,you know Garret.. Mr. Oddball? He claims he made 1100 on a stock 351w block 393 that lasted for 2 years befor givin up the ghost... Im just wondering what I can do with my setup on 18lbs boost and racefuel or AV gas. Dave at Majestic said the turbo should make 1000 at the flywheel with my setup but is that common or just a freak-YET thing? 1000 at the flywheel? Thanks again man.
My twins are going in right now.
I plan on it making 750-775hp at the flywheel at 12psi on a 357ci
A 393 at 18psi making 1000hp at flywheel would not surprise me.

Like your friend it will last for a while but will be a ticking time bomb
If you want it to last "forever" at those power levels its time for a Dart block.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mootang View Post
What stock casting 302 block is it?
It's just a regular DSS 347 short block. Its made many 5.9 sec 1/8th mile
passes and hasnt blown ........... yet, lol

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 02:04 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 118
do you have a link to a his setup or dyno graphs?
mootang is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Short vid of them on the dyno.
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...rent=Movie.flv

The set-up I remember off hand was .......

DSS Pro 347 short block
TFS HighPorts ported
Anderson cam
Spyder intake
BBK 1 3/4 LT's with 3" exhaust
Vortech Y trim ( i think, Vortech for sure though )
FAST EFI system
Water/Meth injection

Total trailer queen

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 09:08 PM
Registered User
 
pkstang's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (162)
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA
Posts: 7,504
i'm curently building a 357w based on a 69 block. through the research i have done prior to going this route it seems that older blocks, up to 74, can handle 750rwhp and above that it's a ticking time bomb... obviously it's tune dependant.

the one thing to note is that 99% of people making that power were guys with blowers, and given that turbos aren't as hard on the motor, i think 750rwhp is very safe for the older blocks.

my plan is to start with 600-650 and go from there but you know how that goes

paul k


'90 notch w/an "old school" cartech outlaw kit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When The Results Disagree With The Theory: Believe The Results And Invent A New Theory
pkstang is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
Now that my build is done and the coupe has made it to the dyno I keep asking myself-WHY I didnt just build a dart block.... I have a crapload of money tied up in this project and to think... Just another 1500 or so...
vincec3002 is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 12-27-2007, 09:49 PM
Registered User
 
xr8240's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sydney..Australia/Morrinsville New Zealand
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincec3002 View Post
Now that my build is done and the coupe has made it to the dyno I keep asking myself-WHY I didnt just build a dart block.... I have a crapload of money tied up in this project and to think... Just another 1500 or so...
Thats what I did and down here the Iron Eagle is $3700...
This was before the Dart Sportsman came out..
But I must say I would have saved some time with machining etc..
I see some 347 n/a builds that end up costing more than my whole motor and turbo conversion....Using rpm to make is not cheap either and the end rsult is the block won't take too much abuse.. Our cars are nearly all 4 door saloon and near 3800 Lb....The latter models have the 4 valve 5.4 motor.. We don't have the 4.6 mod motor.. There has been the base 3 valve motor for some time...http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...Page&c=DFYPage
On subject... I have seen a well sorted 351W [Dyno queen] make alittle over 1200 h.p on dyno comp...Fairly sure it was factory block..

1991 XR8 Australian Falcon TFS induction
2014 Falcon GTE Supercharged Coyote

85 Lb inj Custom cam ,P 2000 Haltech ecu...4x's 2 coil wasted spark ignition.Twin SC 61-2s with Dart block, 330/4340 Crank, Oliver rods,7.9/ comp c C.P pistons.. 482 rwkw/ 646 rwhp..A.P 4 pot brakes...TKO

Last edited by xr8240; 12-27-2007 at 09:58 PM.
xr8240 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 12-31-2007, 01:22 PM
Registered User
 
mazroth's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (27)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mt. Washington, KY
Posts: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincec3002 View Post
. My block is a 1977 351w that cleaned up at .30 and was bored to .35,its girdled,all 4340 internals.. Comp is 8.47:1... Im usin an S400 on my setup and making [email protected] 11lbs boost on 93 octane......
What heads and intake are you running on that 351? What rpm did you make that 662hp?

-92GT stock w/39k miles
-91LX aod/white hatch
-2011 GT A6/brenspeed/kooks/dynotech/roush tvs
http://advanceautoparts.tellapal.com/a/clk/4KlQ
mazroth is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 12-31-2007, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
Im running the AFR 205's with a 64 thousandths cometic head gasket-58cc chambers and srp -32cc dish pistons. 8.47:1 static compression. At 11lbs and around 6250 the setup made 662 but my torque was low around 628 or so... Rev limiter was set at 6500. Solid lifters. Im wondering what it will do with 15lbs and either AV gas or racefuel or maybe water/methanol injection on top of pump gas and the same amount of boost..
vincec3002 is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 01-01-2008, 04:24 AM
Registered User
 
xr8240's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sydney..Australia/Morrinsville New Zealand
Posts: 705
Raise the boost with what you have... 8.5 comp and those heads will take 15Lb easy with tune..
I'd say your dynamic compression is much lower? Cam maybe bleading off?? Why your torque is low or its spinning on dyno ???

1991 XR8 Australian Falcon TFS induction
2014 Falcon GTE Supercharged Coyote

85 Lb inj Custom cam ,P 2000 Haltech ecu...4x's 2 coil wasted spark ignition.Twin SC 61-2s with Dart block, 330/4340 Crank, Oliver rods,7.9/ comp c C.P pistons.. 482 rwkw/ 646 rwhp..A.P 4 pot brakes...TKO

Last edited by xr8240; 01-01-2008 at 04:27 AM.
xr8240 is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 01-01-2008, 10:37 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
.064 headgaskets are a bad idea.

Engine was not designed to work that way.
Messes with your quench area and flame propagation.

+1, you could easily run 15+psi on pump gas on a 8.5 compression engine

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 01-01-2008, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 20
Only reason I figured my torque was so low is because the convertor I had in this thing was RELLY loose. Mike Murillo was telling me that it didnt lock up till after 6100rpm and my limiter is set for 6500.... I have a PTC 4200 stall in the car now and it works great! But the reason for the low torque Im going to suspect is related to the loose converter I had originally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8240 View Post
Raise the boost with what you have... 8.5 comp and those heads will take 15Lb easy with tune..
I'd say your dynamic compression is much lower? Cam maybe bleading off?? Why your torque is low or its spinning on dyno ???
vincec3002 is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 01-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Registered User
 
xr8240's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sydney..Australia/Morrinsville New Zealand
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincec3002 View Post
Only reason I figured my torque was so low is because the convertor I had in this thing was RELLY loose. Mike Murillo was telling me that it didnt lock up till after 6100rpm and my limiter is set for 6500.... I have a PTC 4200 stall in the car now and it works great! But the reason for the low torque Im going to suspect is related to the loose converter I had originally.
That'll do it!!!
Sheesh it would take a while to spool? But when it does..
HANG ON !!!!!!!!

1991 XR8 Australian Falcon TFS induction
2014 Falcon GTE Supercharged Coyote

85 Lb inj Custom cam ,P 2000 Haltech ecu...4x's 2 coil wasted spark ignition.Twin SC 61-2s with Dart block, 330/4340 Crank, Oliver rods,7.9/ comp c C.P pistons.. 482 rwkw/ 646 rwhp..A.P 4 pot brakes...TKO
xr8240 is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 01-01-2008, 06:04 PM
Registered User
 
93Svt331's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (38)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,211
800 is about around a safe hp level with them

90 lx, 408w, T56, 88mm
93Svt331 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome