Questions for moderate turbo DD setup - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 6 Old 11-23-2007, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Questions for moderate turbo DD setup

Not well acquainted with all the little details that go into doing a good
setup - appreciate any suggestions / insights - from experience of course!

Am thinking turbo for my 351 instead of going NA 393.
Not wanting "all the power I can get" - just a good reliable
daily driver that would maybe make 400+ rwhp - well wouldn't
gripe about 500 :-) but that would be max. Should be pretty easy
to accomplish, no?

This would go into a restomod 70 Stang convert, so not very heavy.
Strictly daily driver, not street racer (my retirement project,
just to have some fun with versus newer hp cars but something I
can also take on a cross country trip with no worries)

Would like to use as much of my existing drivetrain as practical.
Includes built 4R70W, ~2800 stall (too high? haven't bought the
converter yet) Stallion, 3:55's, probly max of 10" wide hi perf
street radials on rear.

Thinking conservative boost, like probly 7 to 8 - open to suggestions.
Want to keep rpms around 6k max, definitely want to minimize turbo
lag.

Thinking of keeping my Explorer top over GT40-351 lower, ported
by TMoss, to keep good off-idle and DD rpm throttle response.
Probly go 1 step better heads than my 1.9 valve Perf's.

So, now for some questions.

(Edit) Have done some reading in links from this Forum, have found
answers to some of my questions already. Was initially thinking
small dual turbo's to minimize lag, but have found that lag is
minimal with a properly setup single, and the point is well taken
that there's only half the setup hassle - single wastegate, etc etc.
Plus draw thru mass air much simpler to setup.

Would water/methanol injection for boosted conditions allow the
use of i.e. midgrade for non-boost / daily cruising? Or would
91 be needed all the time? I suppose there's at least small
amount of boost even in steady speed highway driving, so maybe
need 91 for most even "normal" driving?

(Edit) read info on recommended size/type of turbo for my hp goal,
and some info on tuning (would like to keep basic oem mass air to
avoid significant extra cost of aftermarket controller and maybe frequent
tune tweaking? even tho maybe not the absolute best for most power,
don't care about those last few hp for this application) - but would still
appreciate info on where to go for competent tune job (I'm in SE MO -
don't mind driving 300 or + for good tune shop that could do it with
EEC-IV)

(Edit) Also read about cams, i.e. even stock HO works OK with turbo,
so maybe could keep my TF Stg 1?

Thanks for any informed info / suggestions from experience!


89 Linc Mk 7 LSC, 95 351, Ebrock hds, GT40, TF Stg 1 & 1.72, 70 MA, 30 inj's, 1-5/8 ceram short, 2-1/2" Dyno catbk, hi flo 180 stat & pmp, blue hoses & wires, 2 row rad, Taurus fan w/FAL VSC, trans filter & plate cool, 2700 stall, 3:55's, 17x8 Cobra & 255x50's, built 4R70W & Baum TCS

Last edited by macx; 11-23-2007 at 12:20 PM.
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post #2 of 6 Old 12-07-2007, 09:20 PM
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Since this has no responses yet, I'll take a shot at it.

I'd run something like a PT6776R on a street car like that with a .96 A/R housing.

I'm sure you could tune the car to run on a lower octane with meth. injection, but I personally prefer just to run on premium. If you figure in the cost of methanol or hurt efficiency by pulling timing I doubt you'll save much.

I'm not sure who'd I have tune it down that way. You may want to contact Dan Saitz at Hyperformance Motorsports up in the St. Louis area, he maybe able to help with that aspect.

You've got enough displacement for that size turbo it probably won't be as picky as far as cam goes for spool. The tuning system may have more influence on cam choice than the turbo. They usually like a lot of lobe separation from what I understand, but I'm no cam expert.

Hope that helps,
Brian


87 Mustang Coupe YS-trimmed R-306 w/23lbs. of boost, Edelbrock heads, custom cam 233/241, Performer 5.0 intake, 75lb. inj., best et: [email protected]
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post #3 of 6 Old 12-08-2007, 08:25 AM
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Are you going to have enough room for piping and twin turbo's under the front end of your car? Thats something else to consider, which I am sure you have. Sounds to me like you have all the rest of the right parts for a daily driver(intake, cam, heads). Heads are not a huge issue for the power you want to make. Build your combo with what you have now, and if it is not enough, then you can make the necessary purchases, like AFR or TFS if thats the bottle neck in the power.

IMO, you dont need to do the Methanol Inj. or another power adder on top. Plenty of guys make over 450-500 with reasonably mild set-ups on smaller cubes. Your converter and gear selection sounds like it would work well with your combo.
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post #4 of 6 Old 12-08-2007, 09:47 AM
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You won't have any trouble hitting those hp goals. Like others have said, on a 302 its easy. A 351 should make it cake.
Stock cams work fine.
You would not really need MeOH injection.
When you are on the highway with a turbo setup, you are under boost when you are cruising. The boost is engine load dependant so when you hit the gas on the highway-that is when it comes on.
There are a good number of spread sheets out there where you can calculate what sort of cfm your motor needs and then evaluate the compressor maps of different turbos to see what one is good for where you want to be.
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post #5 of 6 Old 12-10-2007, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasguzzler View Post

I'm sure you could tune the car to run on a lower octane with meth. injection, but I personally prefer just to run on premium.
Brian
First, thanks for the info!

An honest question here - I thought the w/m injection allowed to run
more timing with lower octane?

I've got calculated 9.2 cr based on the 8.8 factory spec on the 95
Lightning engine and the smaller Ebrock comb chambers, but actuals
on factory motors are usually a little less, so maybe 9.0
esp after radiusing the sharp edges in the comb chambers.

Shouldn't that work on a mild boost level, like 7 or 8? Or would it
be better to go a little lower?

I would plan on getting TMoss to port at least the lower, maybe also
the upper. I've read that in any type of forced induction, the freer
flowing the heads & intake, the more mixture you can force in at a given
pressure, or you can get as much mixture in with lower pressure.
Either would be a win, more flow at same pressure or lower pumping
losses and lower induced temps at the same flow.

So, I think somewhat better heads are in order if budget allows when
the time comes.

Now, after a lot of reading, I guess twin turbos are more $ on a mild
setup than is justified, so now focusing on single. I thought twins
would spool faster, but I guess that problem is a thing of the past
with the newer, better designed systems.

Now, last question. I'm still somewhat confused on BOV's vs wastegates.
Both needed? Why or why not? Am I right in thinking that on a draw
thru system you would mess up the calibration or tuning if you blow off
air downstream of the MAF?

Last question - I've read about FMU's for non-return fuel systems.
How is that handled with our return style systems? I haven't been
able to find anything about how extra fuel is added for boost. Just
larger injectors don't seem to be as good a solution as some type of
electronic FMU like the non-return systems use.

Thanks so much!! This is a most interesting subject and, as with lots
of stuff in adding power, there's lots of tech to learn. That's what makes
it interesting!

89 Linc Mk 7 LSC, 95 351, Ebrock hds, GT40, TF Stg 1 & 1.72, 70 MA, 30 inj's, 1-5/8 ceram short, 2-1/2" Dyno catbk, hi flo 180 stat & pmp, blue hoses & wires, 2 row rad, Taurus fan w/FAL VSC, trans filter & plate cool, 2700 stall, 3:55's, 17x8 Cobra & 255x50's, built 4R70W & Baum TCS
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post #6 of 6 Old 12-10-2007, 01:07 PM
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The bov releases the boost pressure when you take your foot off the throttle so that the pressure does not back up against the spinning turbo. So it is functioning on the clean air going into the engine.

The waste gate functions on the exhaust gas that spins the turbo. It is referenced to the amount of boost produced so that the amount of boost is limited. When the wastegate opens, exhaust is bypassed from the turbo and the turbo spins less and produces less boost.
Erich

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