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post #1 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ideal single turbo for a mostly stock 5.0L?

I have a 95 Mustang GT and bought a t76 kit a while back and now that i'm about done with the install i'm starting to wonder if i should have gotten a smaller turbo. I know these cars dont make crap for power after 5500rpms...so i'm debating on trying to trade mine for a slightly smaller turbo in hopes of it building boost sooner. Cause i'm at the point in my build that now is the time to make last minute changes. Then again this may just be the pre-finished project worries.

What sized turbos are some of you running?

This is Sinful's old Total Performance kit. From reading through his threads, it looks like his started making boost just past 2000rpms, but doesnt really hit high boost til 3500rpms. So that leaves me with 2000rpms of fun, or less. This turbos most efficient at 20psi+ and i'm planning on running 14psi. Would it be more beneficial to downsize? I would like to hit high boost levels at 2800-3000rpms.

Any suggestions?

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post #2 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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cliff notes--- wanting a turbo that will spool faster and would be more efficient between 14-25psi...not 20-35psi

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post #3 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 08:33 PM
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A bone stock 95 GT with a max RPM of 5500 that doesnt flow for **** will not make a good canidate for a T76. I would go with a 60mm turbo on a bone stock 95 GT to have a good usable RPM band. You could proabably find someone with a good 60 or 62mm turbo that will trade you with cash for you T76.

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post #4 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 08:57 PM
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Ether a 60-1 or a 62-1 will do nicely
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post #5 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 09:03 PM
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I would say ( for a stock motor) buy a new Master power t-70 with the .68 housing and keep the t-76 for later use. Nevermind that 60 or 62-1 bussiness.

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post #6 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 1995gtCPE View Post
I would say ( for a stock motor) buy a new Master power t-70 with the .68 housing and keep the t-76 for later use. Nevermind that 60 or 62-1 bussiness.
x2 on the mp t-70, You cant beat that turbo for the money. I havent had one long but faster than I have been with a turbo car.
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post #7 of 34 Old 07-19-2007, 09:13 PM
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T70 .68 P trim should give you what you are looking for.
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post #8 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 07:57 AM
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I have a 62mm that works very well on a stockish motor but I keep hearing about that mp T-70.
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post #9 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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I was considering a ball bearing 60mm or a 60-1. Wouldnt down sizing to a 60mm be more beneficial than a MP t70? How much difference would a t70 make from a t76? I've just heard and read so many horror stories on MP and kinda believe in the fact that you get what you pay for.

I will probably attemp to trade, since at this point in my build i'm struggling financially. The trouble will be finding another polished turbo that doesnt need a rebuild. However, i will hate letting go of my polished Precission t76
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post #10 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 02:06 PM
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W/e you do, I'd keep the 76. You'll want to put it on one day.

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post #11 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 05:36 PM
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I was considering a ball bearing 60mm or a 60-1. Wouldnt down sizing to a 60mm be more beneficial than a MP t70? How much difference would a t70 make from a t76? I've just heard and read so many horror stories on MP and kinda believe in the fact that you get what you pay for.

I will probably attemp to trade, since at this point in my build i'm struggling financially. The trouble will be finding another polished turbo that doesnt need a rebuild. However, i will hate letting go of my polished Precission t76
No.

a t70 is about as perfect a match for a 302 (5.0) as you are going to find in a single, a t66 might actually be slightly better on a stock(ish) motor, unless you start looking at the GT compressor line, in which case there are some very well matched compressors, but they are significantly more expensive too.

An interesting note on the MP T70 is that the compressor wheel is somewhat of a cross between a Turbonetics T66 and T70 wheel. MP's T70 carries a 2.721" Inducer and a 3.582" Major, compared to the Turbonetics T66 with 2.580" ind. and 3.584" maj. and T70 with 2.720" ind. and 3.850" maj. MPT70's therefore carry the inducer diameter of a typical T70 with the major diameter of the typical T66. How this impacts the compressor map I can not say, but if it crosses the two maps into each other it may explain why they tend to work rather well.

I do not know what horror stories you speak of with actual Master Power turbos, because if you look around here and around theturboforums.com (formerly turbomustangs.com) you will find many satisfied MP turbo users. Same as with Garrett and others, certain eBay sellers have previously used MP housings to pass off knock off internals or have used misleading ads to associate bad products with good names, but with the exception of early production MP turbos, issues seem no more prevalent than with other manufacturers (at least in my reading).

Take this as you will, but you might be interested in this link:
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=74174.0

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post #12 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 05:41 PM
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I have a 62mm Turbonetics turbo and put it on my 77,000 mile '91 GT that had a totally stock motor (from throttle body to oil pan) and made 396 rwhp/458 rwtq with less than 9 lbs. of boost. So I know from experience a 62mm will serve you well. Can't vouch for the MP-70 everyone is talking about, but remember, bigger is definitely not always better. You have to make sure the turbo is sized correctly for your motor's operating range, and you're correct in your thinking a smaller turbo will spool much quicker and be loads more fun on the street. My dyno sheets follow...

https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=809892

1989 LX: Vortech YS-Trim blown DSS 347, Stage 3 Twisted Wedges, Holley Systemax 2, AFM B-451 cam, AFM Power-Pipe, AFM PMS, 80mm Pro-M, Aeromotive 1000 hp fuel system, Precision Turbo 65 lb/hr injectors, UEGO 1000 Wide Band O2, MSD 6BTM and Distributor, 33-spline Moser axles and spool, Bogart Drag-On Stars, UPR Chromemoly K-member and A-Arms, Kooks 1-7/8", Dr. Gas, 130 amp alt, etc.

1991 GT Convertible: stone stock, PA AOD, Edge Converter, 62mm Turbo, 397 rwhp, 458 lb./ft rwtq @ 8 psi

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post #13 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by blown8950 View Post
I have a 62mm Turbonetics turbo and put it on my 77,000 mile '91 GT that had a totally stock motor (from throttle body to oil pan) and made 396 rwhp/458 rwtq with less than 9 lbs. of boost. So I know from experience a 62mm will serve you well. Can't vouch for the MP-70 everyone is talking about, but remember, bigger is definitely not always better. You have to make sure the turbo is sized correctly for your motor's operating range, and you're correct in your thinking a smaller turbo will spool much quicker and be loads more fun on the street. My dyno sheets follow...

https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=809892

Nice numbers on the graph! Did you ever put on the 42lb injectors? I have them on my setup with 11psi on a stockish motor. I never been to a dyno so I don't really know what numbers the motor is pushing but it's a blast on the street.
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post #14 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by blown8950 View Post
I have a 62mm Turbonetics turbo and put it on my 77,000 mile '91 GT that had a totally stock motor (from throttle body to oil pan) and made 396 rwhp/458 rwtq with less than 9 lbs. of boost. So I know from experience a 62mm will serve you well. Can't vouch for the MP-70 everyone is talking about, but remember, bigger is definitely not always better. You have to make sure the turbo is sized correctly for your motor's operating range, and you're correct in your thinking a smaller turbo will spool much quicker and be loads more fun on the street. My dyno sheets follow...

https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=809892
Im not saying a 60 or 62 wouldnt work, but with those he will have ZERO room to grow.

80 coupe, N/A 347, tko500 1.34, 6.30 @ 109.01, 9.87 @ 137.06

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post #15 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 08:51 PM
 
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Im not saying a 60 or 62 wouldnt work, but with those he will have ZERO room to grow.
If he plans on growing in 2 years then he has 2 years of correctly sized turbo. If in 2 years he wants to upgrade then he can sell the turbo and again be correctly sized.

A turbo is going to make stupid power. Especially if he plans on mainly street driving it.
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post #16 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 09:19 PM
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Another vote for a 62mm..I have a Turbonetics 62-1 .81 a/r and love it !! I myself would NOT suggest anything else...It might get tossed on the dyno at FFW at norwalk tomorrow and I will post up some numbers. The car ran a best of 13.6 @ 101 mph before the turbo. with 10 psi and NO traction it went 12.1 @120 mph. this is all on a BONE stock motor, oil pan to TB.



As for the MP turbos.. I have HERD that there are some issues. At one point in time brian from B&G had concidered NOT selling them due to having to send them back to Brazil to have warranty work on them done. Herd it takes like forever IF you have a issue but most have had great luck with the MPs


My BEST advice is to try it with the 76mm for now. yes its prolly overkill but ya never know you might like it. Besides it dosent take long to swap out just the turbo IF you dont like it.

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post #17 of 34 Old 07-20-2007, 09:29 PM
 
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Which exhaust housing is on your Precision T76? I have a BRAND NEW Precision T70 w/.68 housing with my B&G turbo kit.....Bad thing is that I have a H/C/I 347 and the T76 would be much more beneficial to me than the T70...I would have to modify my DP to make it work if the exhaust housing is bigger than a .68.......I wouldn't mind trading if you guaranteed that your turbo is in excellent working condition...
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post #18 of 34 Old 07-21-2007, 06:22 PM
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I have the Holset 60mm turbo that cam with my HP kit. I would be interested in parting with it, cash or trade. I am moving up to a 351W, as soon as HP gets off there a s s and makes my passenger side manifold(I have been waiting since march). The turbo has a .81 exhaust A/R. and works very well with a 302 ci motor.

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post #19 of 34 Old 07-21-2007, 08:19 PM
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[QUOTE=red89coupe;7063822]Another vote for a 62mm..I have a Turbonetics 62-1 .81 a/r and love it !! I myself would NOT suggest anything else...It might get tossed on the dyno at FFW at norwalk tomorrow and I will post up some numbers. The car ran a best of 13.6 @ 101 mph before the turbo. with 10 psi and NO traction it went 12.1 @120 mph. this is all on a BONE stock motor, oil pan to TB.


Holy ####! Nice times for a stocky ocky. What gears/tires do you have?
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post #20 of 34 Old 07-22-2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by blown8950 View Post
I have a 62mm Turbonetics turbo and put it on my 77,000 mile '91 GT that had a totally stock motor (from throttle body to oil pan) and made 396 rwhp/458 rwtq with less than 9 lbs. of boost. So I know from experience a 62mm will serve you well. Can't vouch for the MP-70 everyone is talking about, but remember, bigger is definitely not always better. You have to make sure the turbo is sized correctly for your motor's operating range, and you're correct in your thinking a smaller turbo will spool much quicker and be loads more fun on the street. My dyno sheets follow...

https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=809892
Was that run started at that rpm of is that just a snap shot of the dyno info? Most 60/62's I have worked on come in much sooner than that. I have a car with a 74GTS that would go head to head with the spool on that sheet. IMO the 60/62's are a lot more fun on the street and if you are sticking with stock fuel/ stock block you should stay focused on area under the curve.

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post #21 of 34 Old 07-22-2007, 11:25 AM
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Nice numbers on the graph! Did you ever put on the 42lb injectors? I have them on my setup with 11psi on a stockish motor. I never been to a dyno so I don't really know what numbers the motor is pushing but it's a blast on the street.

Thanks. Yeah I had to go with the 42's to keep it safe. I'd suggest getting your car tuned if possible. I picked up a bunch of rwhp just leaning my combo out a bit and getting the timing maximized. Might be something you want to consider.

1989 LX: Vortech YS-Trim blown DSS 347, Stage 3 Twisted Wedges, Holley Systemax 2, AFM B-451 cam, AFM Power-Pipe, AFM PMS, 80mm Pro-M, Aeromotive 1000 hp fuel system, Precision Turbo 65 lb/hr injectors, UEGO 1000 Wide Band O2, MSD 6BTM and Distributor, 33-spline Moser axles and spool, Bogart Drag-On Stars, UPR Chromemoly K-member and A-Arms, Kooks 1-7/8", Dr. Gas, 130 amp alt, etc.

1991 GT Convertible: stone stock, PA AOD, Edge Converter, 62mm Turbo, 397 rwhp, 458 lb./ft rwtq @ 8 psi
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post #22 of 34 Old 07-22-2007, 11:43 AM
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Im not saying a 60 or 62 wouldnt work, but with those he will have ZERO room to grow.
Well, I'm currently in the process of growing WITH the 62 so it is possible. I'll post some numbers as soon as I can get dyno time scheduled, so stay tuned...

https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=933486

1989 LX: Vortech YS-Trim blown DSS 347, Stage 3 Twisted Wedges, Holley Systemax 2, AFM B-451 cam, AFM Power-Pipe, AFM PMS, 80mm Pro-M, Aeromotive 1000 hp fuel system, Precision Turbo 65 lb/hr injectors, UEGO 1000 Wide Band O2, MSD 6BTM and Distributor, 33-spline Moser axles and spool, Bogart Drag-On Stars, UPR Chromemoly K-member and A-Arms, Kooks 1-7/8", Dr. Gas, 130 amp alt, etc.

1991 GT Convertible: stone stock, PA AOD, Edge Converter, 62mm Turbo, 397 rwhp, 458 lb./ft rwtq @ 8 psi
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post #23 of 34 Old 07-22-2007, 11:56 AM
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Was that run started at that rpm of is that just a snap shot of the dyno info? Most 60/62's I have worked on come in much sooner than that. I have a car with a 74GTS that would go head to head with the spool on that sheet. IMO the 60/62's are a lot more fun on the street and if you are sticking with stock fuel/ stock block you should stay focused on area under the curve.
Yeah, that's where my tuner started the run. He said with the 4.10 gears the turbo wasn't able to spool as quick as it would with some smaller gears due to the engine revving so quick. A turbo thrives under load, and the engine wasn't really working that hard with the 4.10's out back. I have since swapped the 4.10's with some 3.55's, and it would still break loose at 45mph with the stock motor. The boost comes on much quicker now with the 3.55's. I'm anxious to see what it'll do now...

1989 LX: Vortech YS-Trim blown DSS 347, Stage 3 Twisted Wedges, Holley Systemax 2, AFM B-451 cam, AFM Power-Pipe, AFM PMS, 80mm Pro-M, Aeromotive 1000 hp fuel system, Precision Turbo 65 lb/hr injectors, UEGO 1000 Wide Band O2, MSD 6BTM and Distributor, 33-spline Moser axles and spool, Bogart Drag-On Stars, UPR Chromemoly K-member and A-Arms, Kooks 1-7/8", Dr. Gas, 130 amp alt, etc.

1991 GT Convertible: stone stock, PA AOD, Edge Converter, 62mm Turbo, 397 rwhp, 458 lb./ft rwtq @ 8 psi

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post #24 of 34 Old 07-22-2007, 04:09 PM
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Holy ####! Nice times for a stocky ocky. What gears/tires do you have?

dont laugh too hard lol......... Im running a 7.5 in rear end with a locker. 3.45 gears, and 225/50/15 BFG drag radials.. I need to step up to a 26in tire and install the 8.8 w/ 3.27s I have sitting on the barn floor lol

I was having to shift higher then I liked in order NOT to run out of gear. on the first 2 passes I had to lift in 4th or hit the rev limiter

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post #25 of 34 Old 07-22-2007, 06:30 PM
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definitley the T-70 with .68 exhaust housing
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post #26 of 34 Old 07-23-2007, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Heres what my turbo actually is....Precision polished PT-76 GT-Q Turbo with a .85 on-center exhaust housing
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post #27 of 34 Old 07-24-2007, 01:40 AM
 
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An interesting note on the MP T70 is that the compressor wheel is somewhat of a cross between a Turbonetics T66 and T70 wheel. MP's T70 carries a 2.721" Inducer and a 3.582" Major, compared to the Turbonetics T66 with 2.580" ind. and 3.584" maj. and T70 with 2.720" ind. and 3.850" maj. MPT70's therefore carry the inducer diameter of a typical T70 with the major diameter of the typical T66. How this impacts the compressor map I can not say, but if it crosses the two maps into each other it may explain why they tend to work rather well.
What the smaller exducer will (generally) do is yeild a compressor wheel that flows less CFM compared to another with equal blades, inducer and a larger exducer (major). I have seen many people get those MP T70 turbos and I would definitely recommend against them. They are widely known for failures, if there are happy customers on here with them, then awesome I'm glad you're happy but I have had multiple customers have those units fail on them in the past which is why I never have and will not sell them.

I would probably recommend a GT4088R for your application. There are multiple exhaust housings available and it has a very free flowing turbine with a very good compressor wheel. It's an 88mm exducer with a 63.5mm inducer if I remember correctly. The turbine wheel falls between a P and Q trim unit and would most likely work wonderfully on your setup.

On a side note, if you do decide to stay with your current precision unit, I would strongly suggest a switch to a tangental turbine housing. (assuming adequate room) The on center units are approximately 22% less efficient than a comparable tangental unit (depending on application of course). It would be worth the fabrication of a new downpipe and charge pipe.
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post #28 of 34 Old 07-24-2007, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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I think i'm gonna put together what i have, and go from there. I was mainly worried because reading throught some of his dyno threads i saw that his car nose dived after 4500rpms. His car also had a s/c cam in it, so i'm hoping mine will be a little different.

Now i just need to find a set of better flowing heads that wont raise my compression and i will feel a little better.

Thanks for all the insight!
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post #29 of 34 Old 07-25-2007, 08:22 PM
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dont laugh too hard lol......... Im running a 7.5 in rear end with a locker. 3.45 gears, and 225/50/15 BFG drag radials.. I need to step up to a 26in tire and install the 8.8 w/ 3.27s I have sitting on the barn floor lol

I was having to shift higher then I liked in order NOT to run out of gear. on the first 2 passes I had to lift in 4th or hit the rev limiter

7.5 rear end

Bone stock motor and going 120mph

What is your timing set up on?
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post #30 of 34 Old 07-25-2007, 11:25 PM
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7.5 rear end

Bone stock motor and going 120mph

What is your timing set up on?


yeah its the little 7.5 that could lol lol

thanks Im trying. 120 impressed me to say the least!!!

set at 10* and have the spout in. stock timing to the T lol

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post #31 of 34 Old 08-16-2007, 07:03 PM
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stock car t-62 period you just dont need anything more and the earlier boost response is nice.

stock cubes but moded t-66 to t70 ... stroker motor with good heads ... 72 to 76 mm turbo

also thats bs the on center is only 8-10 percent less effecient.. a t76 gts is good for 1100 horsepower wiht a tangetal and 1000 with a on center ..

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post #32 of 34 Old 08-16-2007, 07:52 PM
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A T62-1 with a 0.68 A/R will be in the "sweet spot" of the efficiency island on a stockish 302, and support enough power to split the stock block.

It will also reach full boost around 2600 RPMs +/- 200 (on say a 4th gear manual tranny pull from 1k rpms or so).

Loads of fun on the street.

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post #33 of 34 Old 08-16-2007, 08:26 PM
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A T62-1 with a 0.68 A/R will be in the "sweet spot" of the efficiency island on a stockish 302, and support enough power to split the stock block.

It will also reach full boost around 2600 RPMs +/- 200 (on say a 4th gear manual tranny pull from 1k rpms or so).

Loads of fun on the street.
man sounds like I should have went with a .68 A/R.. dont get me wrong the .81 A/R is nice but I dont hit full boost until the 3200 plus range.

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post #34 of 34 Old 08-16-2007, 10:09 PM
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I started with a 0.81, but now have a 0.68. I get into boost right at 300 RPMS sooner from a 4th gear pull from low RPMS.

It gives alot more area under the curve. I only have a little over a 2:1 exhaust to intake pressure ratio, so it isn't choking the engine.

I have boost before the pedal hits the floor if I step on it above 2500 RPMs. It is very addictive.

1990 Mustang GT, Explorer shortblock with DSS MSS, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, stock GT cam with 1.72RR, ported Explorer intake and 65mm TB, PTK T66 kit @ 18psi, AEM EMS + WBO2, Alkycontrol methanol injection: All Sold
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