New turbo.. some back firing - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 07-15-2007, 04:04 AM Thread Starter
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New turbo.. some back firing

I just recently switched from s/c to turbo and took her out today for a little drive. First drive it started backfiring and idling high and getting hot. So i bring it back and a plug wire was off and I was in the process of adding coolant so it was low..so I topped it off. Put the the plug wire back on took it for a drive everythign seemed ok then. Staying nice and cool but it started to kinda pop and back fire a little. Not like loud but little back fires if that makes sense. It would happend when i give it any throttle I havnt tried WOT yet because its not tuned so im not sure what it would do then. Im going to double check the plugs again and take it for a spin tomarrow but I was wondering what sorta things might cause this. Im hoping its just a bad connection with the plugs. My vacume is good to.

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post #2 of 36 Old 07-15-2007, 06:11 AM
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Could be plugs or wires, also might be running lean. What is your fuel setup, including FP, and do you have a wideband on it? Also, what is your timing set at?


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post #3 of 36 Old 07-15-2007, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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timing at 10 initial (stock) fp at 40 i use a dyno for my a/f at the moment.
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post #4 of 36 Old 07-15-2007, 02:31 PM
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make sure your firing order is right lol

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post #5 of 36 Old 07-15-2007, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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um its right.. its poping a just idle.. im really thinking its wires.. i added some FP andpulled a degree of timing. I reset the computer and goin to see what that does. Then im going to play with the wires while its running.. only now pipes get so hot and are in the way alot ..makes it harder now lol
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post #6 of 36 Old 07-15-2007, 06:47 PM
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+1 spark plugs and wires should be your answer.
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post #7 of 36 Old 07-16-2007, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Took all the wires off and tested them there all good and i made sure they have a good connection.. still popping and stuff at part throttle.. it seems to go away when i get in it some. But just slow acceleration it pops is annoying. I tried adding fuel did nothing but make my plugs black as ####. Anyone else have any ideas?
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post #8 of 36 Old 07-16-2007, 07:43 PM
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hmm sounds like you need a tune, if you are using a SCT chip with a previous tune, it will be probaly nowhere close, remember your going to a load based power adder unlike the centrifical supercharger, that relies on rpm to make boost, and are u using a blow through mass air meter, or drawthrough ? that will make a big diffrence due to mass air transfer units designed to mesure air, im going to PM you.

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post #9 of 36 Old 07-16-2007, 11:22 PM
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Like erich just said, if you went from a draw thru S/C to a blow thru turbo setup then your transfer function is WAAAAY off.

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post #10 of 36 Old 07-16-2007, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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when you say transfer function what do you mean?.. I guess im goign to switch to blow through.

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post #11 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 01:20 PM
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All of the quicktime turbo kits are blow-through. I had the same drivability problem w/ my car. I am using the tweecer to tune and what I have been experiencing(and probably you) is a lean tip-in/part throttle cruise. Currently I have mine sorted out fairly well. The best way to tell what is going on is to have a wideband on the car when the problem is happening. As far as transfer function he is meaning the actual MAF Flow #'s that are entered into the computer.

Also If you are using your S/C tune it will be off. I have tuned my car and a friend's car w/ a s-trim. All that i can say is that his car was a breeze to tune and get dialed in(drives like stock) and mine has been a bitch the whole time.

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Last edited by staticstang; 07-18-2007 at 01:32 PM. Reason: grammar
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post #12 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 01:55 PM
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could it be something with your 02 sensors?? They ( @ close loop) would try to get a 14.64 AF at idle, it sounds like your going lean. This is assuming its not a bad connection or timing issue.

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post #13 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 03:19 PM
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It shouldn't be that hard to tune it with a blow thru set up. I've done both and had great results either way. staticstang, what meter are you using?

slo5.0 as static stated you will need to get your current chip retuned, get a dyno tune or get something like a tweecer to tune it. I will caution you that if you don't know what your doing with a tweecer you don't need to go that route.

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post #14 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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If i got witha blow through instead of the draw through I wont need to mess with anything as it should be pretty squared away. Being as how the kit is made for that.
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post #15 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 08:54 PM
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If you have the Quick Time kit, it is a blow thru kit and there is not room in front of the turbo to make it a draw thru. You will still need to have it tuned. You can get a PMAS meter set up for blow thru and calibrated for the injectors you are using and it should run fine but it will still benefit from a dyno tuned chip. My Q/T kit is in route to me as of today and it will be tuned.

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post #16 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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It will have to be "fine" with the blow through calibrated for the inj. Its already been chipped. I will be tuning it as best as I can on the dyno with FP, timign/boost. And as for there not being room.. thats bull because im currently running draw through on a QT kit

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post #17 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 09:48 PM
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[QUOTE] slo5.0. It will have to be "fine" with the blow through calibrated for the inj. Its already been chipped. I will be tuning it as best as I can on the dyno with FP, timign/boost. And as for there not being room.. thats bull because im currently running draw through on a QT kit [QUOTE]

Listen man you asked for help we all are trying to help you but being thickheaded and not going to go back and get your chip re-tuned, and think you can just fix everything buy adjusting fuel pressure, timing and boost i think you are going to have a problem!,you just might as well pull your chip out,turn your timing down, or lock it out, jack your FP up to about 45psi base hook up the 1:1 to a boost source, and keep the boost on the Gate, and have a car that runs like crap!

if all that is adjusted in the chip is what you mentioned you plan to change manually, then why do people buy diablo, sct, Ect, the chip helps make thing's run in harmony, make drivability good ect, i know what im talking about, i have had turbo cars, i have friends that have turbo cars & supercharged car's and i have a friend at PSI Motorsports in NE PA that tunes a 6 second twin turbo probe,

this is the best piece of advise i can give you and im sure everyone reading this will agree is get the chip re-tuned!!!! or that turbo will be coming off as fast as it went on!

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post #18 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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From my understanding the chip was only used to pull timing at a giving rpm. The computer and properly calibrated maf is what made my car run good. I will speak to my tuner and let you all know what he thinks.. thickheaded is far from the truth. Trust me i will do what it takes to make it run right. Ive gotten this far.. building a car from scratch that has ran flawlessly. I appriciate everyones help.
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 10:22 PM
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Bull????? The kit was designed for a blow thru. YOU changed the way it designed to work. Yes it does work, but not the way it was designed. There's alot more to tuning a engine with a chip than just changing timing.

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post #20 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 10:33 PM
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i meant no offense to you on your capability's i myself just as anybody else here want's to help you out. im sure if you have a capable tuner, he has modified much more than just a timing VS load curve, if it was that simple i would be tuning my own turbo Junk, well best of luck to you and i hope your change over to blowthrough treats you with nothing but rewards, of great drivabilty and power, ad keep us updated!

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post #21 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 10:36 PM
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double post sorry

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post #22 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 10:37 PM
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Bull????? The kit was designed for a blow thru. YOU changed the way it designed to work. Yes it does work, but not the way it was designed. There's alot more to tuning a engine with a chip than just changing timing.
X1000000

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post #23 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 11:14 PM
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look closely for any leaks after the meter and before the t.b.

i don't think your issue is a blow through draw through issue. but you have alot of couplers and connections after the meter that can screw up the mass air meter reading. meter should typically be 0.6-0.8 at idle, check that first. very lean idle can cause what you are having which could be caused by a leak or a bad meter.

check all your piping 1st. blow off or bypass? if blowoff, is it leaking at idle? then borrow a meter from a friend.

goodluck

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post #24 of 36 Old 07-17-2007, 11:41 PM
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look closely for any leaks after the meter and before the t.b.

i don't think your issue is a blow through draw through issue. but you have alot of couplers and connections after the meter that can screw up the mass air meter reading. meter should typically be 0.6-0.8 at idle, check that first. very lean idle can cause what you are having which could be caused by a leak or a bad meter.

check all your piping 1st. blow off or bypass? if blowoff, is it leaking at idle? then borrow a meter from a friend.

goodluck
1.how does a lean at idle cause black sooted plug's?
black plugs = rich condition ,lean = very white, possibly burned off plug straps

2. rob are you using a drawthrough or blowthrough meter?
im just curious

3. this is comon knowledge, if you use a open atmosphere BOV with a drawthrough meter, you will encounter a highly rich conditon under closed throttle coming out of boost due to the engine not actually recieving the metered air , which could cause stalling, fouling plug's ,rough idle, stumbling ect,

A CBV (by-pass valve) must be used as being a closed system, any loss of air for which fuel has already been metered by the movement of the airflow sensor plate, will result in an over-rich condition and possible backfire. A CBV is found on many "OEM" original engine manufactured EFI turbo systems.

A BOV(open atmosphere) is suited to an EFI system that uses a blowthrough mass air meter that meters air right before the throttle body or a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor. As the MAP sensor source is inside the inlet manifold's plenum chamber, relieving air before this with a closed throttle butterfly (throttle lift-off) will not affect running.

but there are diffrent strokes for diffrent folk's
i hope this help's

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post #25 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 12:20 AM
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1. after reading his post again, he said black plugs when he added pressure, so its not lean.

2. i ran a blow through setup with a c&l meter than a pmas pro tube meter. though crossed my mind to convert to draw through. sold the hellion and put the vortech back on a few weeks ago and ordered a quicktime setup 2 weeks ago and will be running a ba2800 blow through setup which i tune myself with sct software.

3. i asked, blowoff or bypass because i don't know what he's running. has anybody run a draw through mass air setup on a mustang with a blow off? i would guess yes.

so whats your point? i'm trying to help somebody.

so tell me about all these turbo setups you've owned? and i've got friends too, does that make you a turbo genious?

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post #26 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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i dont meant to cause any tension.. honestly Im just going to see how she drives with the blow through and have a talk with my tuner. Its not cheap having a retune neither is it timely. He generaly has a month wait or so I just see alot of people using btms and a maf caliibrated for there injector and there car runs great.. running 10's 11's etc.. I was just hoping for the same luck. Maybe im nieve witch is ok. Depending on how she acts on the dyno I will have to have some more intricate things changed.. we'll just have to play it by ear. honestly i appriciate all the help .. this is exactly why i posted.

To answer robs ? the only thing I think that could be leaking is the BOV it has a 6 lb spring i belive and i think with a bigger engine a friend was telling me that it will leak at idle/part throttle.. honestly im not sure exactly. Havnt looked into it that much.
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post #27 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 12:59 AM
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what size gate do you have? is it adjustable? if you tighten it you might, be able to stop the leak, or if you can weld get a flange for where the Bov is put a pipe nipple on it and run rubber hose to a bosch style bypass valve and then back after the mass air meter and you will have no problems i think just no more whoosh to atmosphere.

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post #28 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 12:59 AM
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what size gate do you have? is it adjustable? if you tighten it you might, be able to stop the leak, or if you can weld get a flange for where the Bov is put a pipe nipple on it and run rubber hose to a bosch style bypass valve and then back after the mass air meter and you will have no problems i think just no more whoosh to atmosphere.

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post #29 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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not sure, i'd have to ask newt
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post #30 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erich306 View Post
what size gate do you have? is it adjustable? if you tighten it you might, be able to stop the leak, or if you can weld get a flange for where the Bov is put a pipe nipple on it and run rubber hose to a bosch style bypass valve and then back after the mass air meter and you will have no problems i think just no more whoosh to atmosphere.
his kits come with tial 38mm wastegate and 50mm blowoff.

it is highly unlikely that his idle problem is caused by a leaking wastegate

now a leaking blowoff on a drawthrough setup could. my mitsubishi blowoff leaked a little at idle, but it was blow through so idle wasn't effected.

well i hope this is your problem

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post #31 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
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I guess i could remove the vacume at idle from the BOV and find out if its leaking because my popping at idle would go away wouldnt it? because woudlnt vacume be whats causing it to open?
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post #32 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 01:34 AM
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it did on the mitsubishi bypass valve.

whats the combo? what kind of power did it make?

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post #33 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 10:24 AM
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good call rob, lol it was getting late i meant BOV i do know some that are adjustable the previous SBF turbo kit i had had an adjustable turbosmart BOV, so my appoliges, yeah a leaking BOV would cause this conditon so you are right, and that was wat i was trying to get at while half asleep, it's just that drawthrough is less than ideal for a SBF set up, thats all due mainly to space issues, you could re-plumb the by-pass and things could be a-ok,

and Rob does me owning/building previous turbo combos make me a genious NO! but do i know what im talking about, yeah, not everybody has acess to SCT software, or a dyno, or how many tuners will just let you use their software to tune your own stuff not many that i know of?

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this is not a pissing match, by any means! let all of us get this guy going, in the right direction,and get another turbo stang out on the streets!

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post #34 of 36 Old 07-18-2007, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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i Use to hav ea wrx and converted to fox. Mine was just bolt ons.. made liek 230whp
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post #35 of 36 Old 07-20-2007, 03:26 PM
 
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