How much boost can I run with this combo - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 11-19-2006, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Question How much boost can I run with this combo

1993 LX hatch mustang
world class T5
3.73 geared rearend

306 small block with forged pistons (5000 miles on it)
Trick Flow t/w street heat heads
Trick flow street heat intake
Trick flow 1.6 roller rockers
Trick flow pushrods
E303 ford motorsports cam
PTK turbo kit with T76mm and .96 A/R
2.5" x-pipe with 2.5" dynomax bullet mufflers and stainless LX tips

Motor is tuned by Amazon racing in Anderson, SC

made 450 rwhp and 495 fpt with just 8lbs. of boost

I do have a manual boost controller that I can turn up to 14lbs. max with the waste gate spring I have

23 degrees total timing
11.7 Air fuel ratio (very safe)

How much higher can I go with the boost?
How high can I go on some good fuel?
How much of a power increase would it be per lb. of boost?

thanks..


DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #2 of 23 Old 11-19-2006, 07:18 PM
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You can't measure power by the amount of 'boost' you're running. If you're getting out of the efficiency range of the turbo, you won't see much of a gain.


Clevor finished!! Now on to everything else...
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post #3 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 01:51 AM
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depending on your compression ratio and spark curve (etc...), you should be able to go to safely hit 12-14psi on 93 octane. 500-525rwhp.

do not worry about getting out of the efficiency range of a t76 on a 306, at 6,000 rpm and 14psi you'd be right in the center of peak efficiency.
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post #4 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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thanks...

Sounds like I will be turning up the boost on the car...

I fried the clutch in it so I will hopefully have a new clutch back in it this week and be at the track this Saturday..

I will post times if I make it...

Thanks for helping out a new turbo guy...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #5 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 09:52 AM
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I read somewhere on turbomustangs that there is a simple equation you can use to roughly determine the amount of hp per lb of boost on a given application. Although many factors yield amount of power from restriction (boost), the equation goes as:

Amount of hp NA / 14.7 = hp / lb of boost

If your 306 makes 300 rwhp NA, then you could estimate roughly 20.3 hp per lb of boost. 13 psi, then, would estimate ~565 rwhp. That seems pretty realistic to me for that turbo and combo, easily. This is not exact, but merely an estimate.

Like I said, this can vary with combo, size of turbo and its efficiency range, etc.

My car NA is probably around 275 rwhp, and at 7 psi (est. 410 rwhp), my car went 120.7 mph (3,500 lbs with me in it)
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post #6 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Man, that is a lot of power...

I am definitely going to up the boost then for the track...

I had figured it to be over 500 rwhp but just wasn't sure what each lb. of boost meant for power... Thanks for the help..

I have been trying to figure out which clutch kit to get???

I wish I had researched turbos a little more before trading for this car... I mean, it feels awesome when in boost, but feels like a turd on the bottom end before getting into boost...

So, here is the plan then...

Raise the boost to at least 12 lbs. of boost
New clutch kit but not sure which kind? I want a street friendly clutch kit?
Probably going to order a new A/R assembly... .81, .68?????

I was also told by the previous owner that I have a T76GT turbo from Pro Turbo Systems or PTK...

I want my boost sooner...

Hope to make it to the track Saturday... Times will follow...

Thanks for all the help..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #7 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 11:49 AM
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Good luck with everything. 12-13 psi through a T76 could potentially break that block, but it could also last quite awhile - it's a 50/50 deal.

As far as clutch goes, I'd recommend a McLeod street twin. They're pricey (~$1,000), but it comes with an aluminum flywheel, and it drives like a stock clutch, & some have used it with 800+ ft/lbs on a daily-driven street car.

Does your wastegate route into the downpipe, or does it dump to atmosphere? If it's in the downpipe, I'd try the .81 - your lower boost will likely come in 400-500 rpm sooner.
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post #8 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 01:30 PM
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20psi at some short blast have lasted. who knows when it will break, its a hit and miss there are a few that run 15+psi for a while on them, then others that last no time at all. my car has made 15+ passes from 10-15psi with the t76

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post #9 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys

Definitely not goes with that expensive clutch kit.. Planning on automatic so not looking for long term clutch setup... Thanks though

My wastegate is behind the AR and comes off a pipe that comes off the AR.. Is that the downpipe?

I will have to play with the boost and see what happens I guess.. Maybe try 10 and then try 12 and get brave with 14... Time will tell I guess.. I hope it doesn't break... I am shifting at 5800 rpms so maybe it will live a little bit... I am only raising the boost to get the timeslips I want... If all goes well we will find out Saturday what this little LX will do...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #10 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 02:55 PM
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TUNE TUNE TUNE. It will get you more SAFE boost @ lower RPM's. I have a stock block with a girdle and at about 20 21 psi on a t76. I think it is only still alvie because of a good fuel system and a good bt safe tune.

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post #11 of 23 Old 11-20-2006, 03:25 PM
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TUNE TUNE TUNE. It will get you more SAFE boost @ lower RPM's. I have a stock block with a girdle and at about 20 21 psi on a t76. I think it is only still alvie because of a good fuel system and a good bt safe tune.
I don't give a crap how safe your tune is, to get a stock 302 block to survive at 21 psi is you getting lucky with a better stock block, or you're running the most restrictive heads, intake, and cam on the face of the earth.

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post #12 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 01:54 AM
 
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My friend crack his stock block right by the timing cover with 15 lbs of boost and this car had a very conservative tune with a FAST system. He had a 306 with a PTK and a PT76 (.81 turbine housing) turbo running 10.13 at 138 mph. It is a 5 speed. This turbo still has some lag even with the .81 turbine housing. Your .96 must be really sluggish. I would at least replace your .96 for a .81. It will spool alot better than the .96.
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 07:40 AM Thread Starter
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I ended up running 11psi.

Very laggish until 4000 rpms...

Oh, and how about 13.34 @ 107.. Horrible time..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 08:58 AM
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107?! Something's not right. What gears are in this car?
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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I have 3.73 gears...

I agree something is wrong.. But I am lost when it comes to working on a turbo car... I think I should have looked before leaping.. lol...

I just don't know where to start..

The car drives fine??? But it will not run the numbers...

And those numbers were the best pass???

Oh well, hope to figure it out in time or sale the car...

Anybody want a good deal on a beautiful 93 LX turbo car with all the right parts but just doesn't run the numbers..

Full SCT chip tune and all... Has the flip chip...

I am let down to say the least...

Especially since my bone stock long block S-trim coupe was runnin 12.40s...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #16 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 09:32 AM
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lower the gear ratio (3.27, 3.55, 3.08) and pick up a .68 or .81 (I'd go .68) and you will probably love it.
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 10:14 AM
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lower the gear ratio (3.27, 3.55, 3.08) and pick up a .68 or .81 (I'd go .68) and you will probably love it.
Agreed. Give those two things a try and see what happens.

I put 3.31s in mine, and my aluminum-headed stock shortblock LX with a T70 went 120 mph on 7 psi - yours should be similar to that, if not faster.

It'll come around. A smaller housing on that should make you LOVE that car.

If there turns out to be a snag in the tune, or something causing it to not respond correctly (timing, etc.), I hope you get it figured out soon!
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Workin on it

I have already got a call into Amazon to talk to Rick who tuned the car to see if he can help.. Gonna try and get the dyno sheet emailed to me and see what the problem may be... My car runs so rich it will burn your eyes in my shop at idle... But the plugs clean up pretty good under full boost.. But only @ 11 psi...

I have also called ITS to try and help find out what exactly my turbo it... But they are on Pacific time so I don't believe the company is open yet..

I am getting ready to install a 3.73 gear into my cousins LX and I will see about getting the 3.27 gear that will be coming out of his car... I'm sure he will give me the gear for installing his new gear for him...

Thanks for all the help...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #19 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, and as a side note.. I tried calling and talking to the guy I got the car from to get some help.. My cousin talked to him and said it must be the driver not getting the time out of it... Man, what a slap in the face...

And just so everyone knows... We changed drivers just to see it that would help...

I'm not the best driver in the world but I know with easy shifting I should have been into the high 11s with some serious MPH from everything I have researched...

Oh well... I'm not saying anything bad about the guy I got the car from.. He seems like a straight up kind of guy...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 01:02 PM
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Oh, and as a side note.. I tried calling and talking to the guy I got the car from to get some help.. My cousin talked to him and said it must be the driver not getting the time out of it... Man, what a slap in the face...

And just so everyone knows... We changed drivers just to see it that would help...

I'm not the best driver in the world but I know with easy shifting I should have been into the high 11s with some serious MPH from everything I have researched...

Oh well... I'm not saying anything bad about the guy I got the car from.. He seems like a straight up kind of guy...

seems like a ******** buy that remark, even if you were a sorry driver it should of trapped alot more mph. there is something silly wrong, sure there isnt any leaks? exh leaks? vac leaks? there could be a number of things, boost gauge could be off, and there would be a reason for being so rich, all kinds of things. something is deff wrong in this car. even with the 76mm .96 ar turbo on a 5 speed with whatever gear ratio should of trapped that in the 1/8th

94 Gt street car
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post #21 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what is wrong but agree something is wrong.. I guess I'm gonna start looking for problems.. I'm going to pull the turbo off and take some measurements to determine exactly what I have...

I'm also going to pull all the plugs and check things out.. Maybe even do a compression check for good measure...

Still haven't heard from the tuner yet.. His wife took a message for me...

I will check all the connections and see If I can find any loose parts..

I looked for a vacuum leak at the track but did not notice any problems...

Hope to figure this things out eventually.. It is all a learning curve I guess.. I did have much better luck with my S-trim though...

Thanks for all the help...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 03:53 PM
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That's crazy. Your car should have run faster than that on motor... let alone with the turbo. My buddy has the trick flow top end on a full weight 100K stock 302 and is running 13.1s at 106-107...

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post #23 of 23 Old 11-28-2006, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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tell me about it... I know it should run faster... Hopefully with time it will get there..

thanks for the response..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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