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post #1 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Question Question about T76mm turbo with .96 AR?

I have been talking to a guy about trading my S-trim coupe for his 93 LX hatchback with trickflow top end kit and a PTK turbo kit with a T76mm turbo with .96 AR... I have rode in the car but it didn't build boost as soon as I thought it would and didn't seem fast... I believe full boost @ around 3700 rpms...

The owner said it was because of the .96 AR and that a .81 AR would help build boost sooner?

Is this statement correct? If so, how hard is it to change the AR?

He has stated this turbo is a ball bearing turbo.. Anyway to tell without tearing it apart?

I would like to build max boost around 2000 to 2500 rpms...

Help me out turbo guys????????

Oh yeah, the car dynoed @ 450rwhp and 495rwft with 8 lbs. of boost.. I talked to the dyno guy and he confirmed the cars power output... He also said it started spinning on the dyno??? It never spun when we went for a ride though???

Thanks in advance..


DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #2 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 03:14 PM
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That sound right, how high you shift at, mine is a T70/.96ar, full boost around mid 3000 and take it up to 6800 on 17/psi, so i will say the .81 or .84 will do the job for you, don't know how much power you are after, on mine the T70 i got is enough to take place of my T-Trim blower.


1995 Sapphire Blue GT - 1 owner
302, single 76mm
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post #3 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Question

Thanks PoonRacing:

I guess my goals are to run some 10.60s or 10.50s with the current setup and more boost...

And I figured the boost coming on sooner would help with that goal...

I plan on raising the boost up to around 12-15 lbs. of boost and some good fuel probably..

It has a flip chip in it so I can put a tune for race gas I guess...

Plus I figure the boost also coming on sooner but make the car feel so much better on the street.. Felt real lazy..

The shift point he has right now is 5000 rpms... (has the 5K rpm chip)

My shift point will be 5600-5800 rpms to start with... (i will use a shift pill also for the shift light)

What do you think this car will run in the quarter with those HP/Torque numbers???

It is a 5 speed car with 3.73 gears..

Lowered 1 1/2" inches..

thanks..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #4 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 03:24 PM
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was it a auto car? if so more you are hardley ever going to see the effect of lag with a auto a good stall. i have the same turbo and i have no spool time, soon as i mat it, its there and then more!

94 Gt street car
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post #5 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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5 spped with 3.73 gears

Hey Jonboy:

It is a 5 speed car...

I wish it was an auto.. Never thought I would be saying that about a fox body mustang... lol...

I guess I had this thought in my head that as soon as boost came on it would blow the tires away and be a big hang on... But it wasn't... Sounded awesome and pulled smooth....

306 forged small block
70mm t/b
90mm lighting tuned @ Amazon here in Anderson, SC
42 lb. injectors
Trick Flow street heat heads
trick flow intake
trick flow push rods
trick flow rockers
E303 cam
T76mm ptk turbo kit
good fuel system
3.73 8.8 rearend
my welds and 275-50-15 tires..



Do you think the combo has the goods to get into the 10s

Still waitin on some videos....

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq

Last edited by 90LXHatchback; 11-15-2006 at 03:31 PM.
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post #6 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 03:45 PM
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Hey you combo almost same as mine, i was thinking swtich to auto too. hard to say will be in 10s depend can you car 60 foot or not, but will be easy 11s

1995 Sapphire Blue GT - 1 owner
302, single 76mm
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post #7 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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yep, I expect 11s on the first pass but time will tell..

Might be going to Carolina Dragway on the 25th for the mustang club track rental day..

thanks for the help..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #8 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 06:07 PM
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the problem is that it is a large compressor wheel and a large turbine housing. Switch to a .68 a/r housing or a .81a/r housing and you'll see spool much sooner. A .68 is good for spool ~2,700 and max out flow ~6,000; a .81 should spool ~3,000 and top out ~6,500 (or so I've been told).

Changing the turbine housing is easy, remove turbo from car, remove 6 bolts, slide old housing off, slide new housing on, insert 6 bolts, reinstall on car.

Last edited by Pope; 11-15-2006 at 06:10 PM.
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post #9 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 06:19 PM
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That turbo is WAY too big if all he's going to run is 8psi......That thing isn't even close to it's effiency range.....With that motor combo, he could run 8psi with a 66mm and get 450 at the tires.....But yeah, changing the exhaust housing to a .81 or .68 would really help it out a bunch.....If it were me and got a hold of that car, I would trade the 76mm to someone that wanted to step up from their 70mm and just run the 70mm on it......You could probably get someone to trade you the 70mm + $300 for that 76.....The 70mm would be good enough for bottom 10's in the 1/4....Just my opinion though
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post #10 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 07:21 PM
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My friend just went [email protected] with a T70 and a .68 a/r through a C4. For that combo, unless you're planning on doing a Dart block and 20 psi or something, a T76 is a bit overkill I think. a $600 Master Power T70 w/ the .68 a/r would be excellent for a street/strip car, in my opinion.


Reef Blue Hatch HCI 302, TKO, 3.31's
DIY MP T70 .68 a/r [email protected] 2.03 60' 7 psi
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post #11 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 08:24 PM
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i could never see down trading the turbo, there are always future plans involved with anyone and a mustang. i would try the .81 a/r and see what happens from there, or all else fells you can always get a auto and be set!! but it is true on the efficenty range on the turbo, its not close to its happy spot at 8psi. have fun with the car!!!

94 Gt street car
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post #12 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Question that what I was thinking

I was worried about the turbo being too big... Sounds like I'm not matched up perfectly...

Can I run a .68 Area/Radius on this T76mm???? I like the idea of full boost at around 2700 rpms... But it will limit my top end power correct?

I called and talked to Pro Turbo systems and he said the same thing you guys are saying... Thanks for all the help...


I plan on increasing the boost as it sits to at least 10 lbs. And then at the track I am going for 12-15 lbs. with good fuel.. Rick @ amazon told me his tune was very safe and the A/F ratio was around 11.6 and the timing is @ 23 total.. He said increasing the boost should be no problem and recommended running 104 octane fuel...

I just want the car to hit harder lower in the rpms... And I want to run 10s in the 1/4 mile.. I will go with a .68 a/r if it will work... I will still have the .96 a/r sitting on the shelf...

Can I run the numbers with this .96 A/R or will it be better to change it...???

Oh and jonboy, the automatic will be going in as soon as the T5 breaks... Then it will be which one, C4, powerglide, TH350, C6, TH400, etc..
thanks for the help and keep the good info. coming..

and will all the piping work if I switch to the .81 or .68??????? Is it a direct replacement or am I going to run into other problems??? thanks..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq

Last edited by 90LXHatchback; 11-15-2006 at 09:21 PM. Reason: added more info..
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post #13 of 136 Old 11-15-2006, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
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1. Can I run a .68 Area/Radius on this T76mm???? I like the idea of full boost at around 2700 rpms... But it will limit my top end power correct?

2. I just want the car to hit harder lower in the rpms... And I want to run 10s in the 1/4 mile.. I will go with a .68 a/r if it will work... I will still have the .96 a/r sitting on the shelf... Can I run the numbers with this .96 A/R or will it be better to change it...???

3. and will all the piping work if I switch to the .81 or .68??????? Is it a direct replacement or am I going to run into other problems??? thanks..
1. yes and yes. what you will need to know is what trim the turbine is so that you can get the lower a/r housing to match. (probably either p or o trim, but it will matter)

2. The .96 will spool the turbo higher in the rpm band than the .68 or .81, thusly the smaller a/r will limit high rpm HP potential but a smaller a/r should provide you with a broader torque band. Low rpm grunt vs. high rpm power. If you shift high (>6500) the .96 could get you the times you seek, if you want to shift low (<6000) then use the .68.

3. Whether or not the piping will fit should only depend on getting a direct replacement housing. ie. On-center vs. tang, input and output flange styles, etc... as long as you keep the options the same, it should swap right in.

Last edited by Pope; 11-15-2006 at 09:57 PM.
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post #14 of 136 Old 11-16-2006, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Pope: That helped a ton... I will try and find out what trim it is...

Thanks again..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #15 of 136 Old 11-19-2006, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Well I traded my coupe for the 93 turbo car

Well I got the car... this thing is a pig on the bottom end but pulls like a jet on top end... Max boost @ about 4000 rpms so that doesn't leave much of a power band when my shift light is 5800 rpms with a 6200 pill in the MSD box..

But it feels decent.. Nothing like what I thought a tubo car would feel like..

the bad news though is i blew the clutch out of the car the first night I got it.. I mean it exploded.... Tried a really hard pass and wasn't use to the car and missed a gear and it exploded...

You guys think a King Cobra clutch kit is good enough???

I guess I am going to order a new AR for the turbo.. Just not sure on .68 or .81?????

I am worried this car isn't going to run the times I want at the track..

But we are suppose to go this Saturday to Jackson (Carolina Dragway) for the Mustang track day rental...

I will keep you guys posted???

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #16 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 01:17 AM
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I'd go with at least a clutchmasters fx100 (550hp rating) over a king cobra (400hp rating).

Lets assume for sake of discussion that the turbine is a p trim (which sounds reasonable given the spool rpm w the .96 housing) a .68 housing should allow for full spool ~3,000 rpm and the .81 ~3,500 (rough numbers for discussion sake). Reducing the size of the turbine housing does therefore appear to be a tempting move in order to reduce the rpm at which the turbo spools, this however will most likely be a mistake.

According to the compressor map of a t76, it is not until about 4,000 rpm that the airflow requirements of a 306 will be on the map and not below the surge line, meaning that the compressor really can not achieve spool before that point not matter what turbine housing is installed. I was not thinking about the compressor side ramifications when I previously posted information on a smaller turbine housing, I was simply responding to the housing question.

Swapping the turbine housing to a .81 may give you a few hundred rpm of additional spool (lower spool rpm) but the better option would probably be to attempt to sell/trade the turbo and get either a t66 or t70 w/ a .68 p trim turbine.
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Thanks

thanks for the help....

Man, that is a ton of stuff to digest.. Sounds like my combo is crap...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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your combo isn't crap, just need to take advantage of it more. the smaller housing will help you a lot. just try it. they are fairly cheap.

86 fiero gt [email protected]
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post #19 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 03:40 PM
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your combo isn't crap, just need to take advantage of it more. the smaller housing will help you a lot. just try it. they are fairly cheap.
he is right, the combo isn't crap, it is merely set up more for high rpm HP over low/mid torque. a .81 is probably all the smaller you would want to go on the turbine, they are usually ~$100 so it could be worth it to experiment. a few post back someone made the suggestion of trying to find someone looking to upsize that you could trade with to downsize, that might be worth trying, just put up a post in the power adder section of the classifieds and see if anyone bites.
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post #20 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 04:56 PM
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331, T70 .96
15psi by 2800rpm

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post #21 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 05:06 PM
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hmmm...I have the hellion kit with the T76.....how do I find out what the AR is????

-haven't installed it yet
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should be stamped in the exh housing

say .81AR or whatever

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post #23 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 05:09 PM
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should be stamped in the exh housing

say .81AR or whatever
thanks!!!
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np

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post #25 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Question More Research

hey guys...

when I got home from work I went out and started looking for part numbers..

When I traded for the car I was told it is a PTK turbo kit..

Well, on the turbo it has stamped ITS with their symbol... So the turbo is a Innovative turbo systems turbo... probably their T76GT series and it is suppose to be a ball bearing turbo...

the turbo kit I have doesn't look exactly like the PTK turbo kit on their website but it may be an older turbo kit or something...

And I'm assuming you can rotate the housing for the position you want on the MAF side because my turbo outlet for the MAF points toward the passenger side fenderwell...

anyway, I'm trying to figure out how to go about finding an AR for the particular turbo???

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #26 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 06:50 PM
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yes you can rotate the compressor housing. do a search on google for turbo companies. also turbomustangs.com have a lot neat stuff on there. i would personally keep what you have. that setup can be made to be one bad ass ride. any other questions let us know.

86 fiero gt [email protected]
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post #27 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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So where can I get one of those .81 AR housing for 100 bucks..

thanks for the help guys..

I am researching like crazy to figure this turbo stuff out... It was the same with supercharging... Fun stuff indeed... I will get it all figured out eventually... Especially with great sites and good people like ya'll...

thanks everyone for the help...

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #28 of 136 Old 11-20-2006, 09:07 PM
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So where can I get one of those .81 AR housing for 100 bucks..
classifieds
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post #29 of 136 Old 11-21-2006, 02:53 PM
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What gear ratio is in this said turbo car......Putting a taller gear in it, like a 3.27, would help a little on building boost sooner....Also, you can wrap the downpipe to help build boost a little sooner too.......
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Question

I have a 3.73 gear..

Call me stupid but which one is the downpipe????

thanks and I will definitely wrap the pipe for more power... A few pipes have some wrap on them...

thanks again...

I also placed an ad in the classified..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #31 of 136 Old 11-21-2006, 07:51 PM
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The downpipe is the pipe that comes off the back of the turbo......You need to ditch those 3.73's and get some 3.27's....
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post #32 of 136 Old 11-22-2006, 09:35 PM
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90LXHatch,

I have a 60mm Garrett, with a .68 Tang exh housing I'll trade plus cash for your 76mm Turbo. On a stock 302, in a 83 Vert, c4/355 gear, this turbo went dozens of 7.0s between 100-104 mph. I recently switched to a 360 inch windsor, so I need a bigger turbo.
Below are the specs:

Garrett 60-1 t4 turbo .68 or .96 Tang exh housing.
Garrett TA34-10 turbocharger part#715583-5005. Garrett's Ballistic Concepts division, the TA34-10 is a factory designed T4
It will efficiently support over 600hp,
Product Highlights
&#183; High Flow – Quick Spool T31/T04S Hybrid Turbocharger design
&#183; Compressor Stages are based on the popular 60-trim T04S design
&#183; Compressor Wheel Diameters: 2.32" Inducer (trim) / 3.00" Exducer (tip)
&#183; Compressor Flow Specs: up to 60 lbs./min. mass flow
&#183; Compressor Housing A/R: 0.70
&#183; Compressor Housing has 4.0" bell mouth inlet and 2.50" outlet diameter hose connections
&#183; Conventional air-cooled finned center housing with heavy duty bearing set
&#183; Racing designed 360 degree thrust bearing design
&#183; High Flow 76-trim left-hand thread T31 "Inconel" Turbine Wheel
&#183; Turbine Wheel Diameters: 2.23" Exducer (trim) / 2.56: Inducer (tip)

Let me know if we can make a deal. I,m local so if you are interested, we can get together this weekend.
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post #33 of 136 Old 11-23-2006, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Not gonna be able to do anything this weekend..

I'm taking the car to Carolina Dragway Saturday to race it... Let me research it a little..

thanks..

when do you see full boost???

Thanks..

james..

DSS 306, S-trim pullied to 15lbs., Tremec 5 speed, Edel. RPM 2, 42lb. inj., 65mm TB, 90mm MAF, Trick Flow Heads, 1.6RR, Comp Cams HP Nitrous Cam, 8.8 w/3.73, 509rwhp 470rwtq
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post #34 of 136 Old 11-23-2006, 06:42 PM
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You have a T76 with heads and intake and a stock block? That seems like a huge waste to me. What boost numbers are you running with that.

Eric
post #35 of 136 Old 11-23-2006, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90LXHatchback View Post
Not gonna be able to do anything this weekend..

I'm taking the car to Carolina Dragway Saturday to race it... Let me research it a little..

thanks..

when do you see full boost???

Thanks..

james..
Thats cool, Good luck at Carolina. I,m not sure if you are running slicks or DR,s if not dont worry about et, focus on MPH. If you run killer mph, the car is making power, the et will come with traction. My 60mm made full boost somewere in the 2500 to 3000 rmps range. It pulls strong to 6000 rpms. I also posted in the classfieds concerning a small exh housing. I have a .69 MasterPower, that will work on your 76, if you are interested.

Thanks,
Ken
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