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post #1 of 18 Old 01-03-2006, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Questions about new setup, twin turbo w/ FAST efi

Ok i'm currently in the process of building my new setup. I just put in an order for the HP stage 3 twin turbo kit with 67mm turbos. This will be going on a built 2V 4.6. My question is mainly concerning the FAST sytem i plan to use. Does anyone know what all i will need to make this work. FAST told me something about the EDIS module but to be honest they might as well have been speaking latin to me. Does anyone know anything about it. Also will i still need the MSD tach adaptors when running the FAST computer with my DIS 4 box.

I plan on making about 500rwhp on the street tune and closer to 900 on the race tune. What would be some options for a fuel system. I've already resided myself to some big low impedence injectors(probably 96s). But i'm not sure on the pumps yet. Some people say dual 255s are enough but i doubt it. The aeromotive pro pump isn't streetable enough and i don't htink the eliminator will support the power. I've also considered running an a1000 or something for street drivig and letting the FAST box turn on another big pump when it sees some boost. Does anyone have any ideas on this.

Bill



2006 YZF-R6 Raven black

96 Black GTS
PI heads, vortech, 8lbs of boost

Dyno Tuned by Houston Performance
399.1 hp 367.1 tq SAE
424.4 hp 390.4 tq Actual


New setup:
Forged shortblock
HP turbo kit with twin 67s
Built AOD
FAST xfi
Dual A1000 fuel pumps and 150 lb injectors


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post #2 of 18 Old 01-11-2006, 09:30 PM
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As to hooking up the FAST to the EDIS, I'm not sure about that one. I'm still living in the pushrod world.

I have run an Aeromotive A1000 in hte past, and was not very happy with it. It would get hot, and while it never left me stranded, did see a noticeable decrease in power as i drove longer. Right now I have a single GSS 340 Walbro in the tank, stock lines, "Y"ed into aftermarket rails and regulator. I am running 75 pound injectors and have had no problems. With this setup I have made 506 RWHP and 688 RWTQ at 13 pounds of boost on pump gas. A pair of 255's, like GSS 340's should be more then enough. There is no perameter in the FAST to turn on a second pump in reference to boost, but a system would not be too difficult to fabricate using a Hobbs switch.


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post #3 of 18 Old 01-12-2006, 03:10 AM
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FAST and fuel for the turbos

I'm assuming the 2V is built, in that it has a forged bottom and lower compression? I have a 4V with twins and a FAST but I understand the lower compression is really crucial on the 2V because the heads aren't as efficient??? Anyhow, your question was about the FAST EDIS to make it work..? The EDIS refers to "electronic distributorless ignitions system" and the module itself is internal in the 96+ EECV computer and is a separate unit altogether with the pre-96 EECIV computers. The FAST can be set up to run off a FAST crank trigger or the OEM Ford EDIS and OEM crank trigger which is what I have. You're best to go to a local wrecker and collect the EDIS module and wiring pigtail & connector (that's what I did). Look for a 93 Crown Vic, but I'm sure others work (1993 Lincoln Mark VIII 4.6L F5SZ-12K072-AA ). Essentially any 4.6 Ford product running a EECIV computer has the EDIS 8 module you'll need. You then just use the OEM crank trigger. The other way is to get a crank trigger (MSD) and then the FAST ignition unit, but that's expensive and not necessary in my opinion...

I went with a sumped Aeromotive fuel tank and A-1000 for now with an Aeromotive billet pump controller (for streetability) as it regulates the power to it so you're not running the pump at full speed when in the lower RPMs. I also have the Aeromotive rails and FPR along with 60lb injectors. With the FAST you can run the low impedance no problem, but I went high impedance. If you're running up to 900 RWHP then the next step up in pumps would be a good idea. The dual pumps found on the 03 cobra (boosted) is barely adequate from what I've heard.

Also, getting a proper VE table for the FAST as well as the other parameters is very crucial, such as timing and acceleration enrichment, closed loop and open... Best to find someone that can help set it up with the aid of a dyno perhaps, or a buddy that can do a lot of road testing and setup. I've yet to get my new setup to the dyno, because weather up here has been ****. I've had the HP twin turbo setup (Stage 1) installed on my 97 Cobra for a couple months now, and have just run it in the garage. First things first, I need to get an alignment because of the tubular K-member install and then to the dyno. I'll need to assist with the set up likely with my new found knowledge of the FAST system, but someone with some experience and know how would be better... Turbo Buick site is a good one for technical info, and so is Turbostangs. The installation itself was pretty straight forward too.

Let me know if you have any questions. The technical support at FAST is pretty good, but the information I was able to obtain forced me to figure it out mostly on my own or posting threads such as yours...

Take care,

Spud
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-12-2006, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for that info on the EDIS module thats what i've been looking for. As far as the fuel syetm is concerned i've figured that out with aeromitve and we'll be using 2 A1000s. One will be run on a controller for streetability and the FAST cpu will turn the second on when at 2 in/hg. I'll also be running braided line front to rear with 160lb injectors, the aeromotive pro series regulator and aeromotive fuel rails. And yes we're running a built short block, 03 cobra block, forged H beam rods, forged crank, and forged 18cc pistons for a low compression ratio. I'll probably have to make or fund a start up program for the FAST system but i'll be bringing it to Mike Murillo to have it tuned on the dyno after we get everything running.

One more question though is the ignition system. I'll be running a DIS4 box do you know if i still need to run tach adaptors with the FAST cpu?

Thanks,
Bill


2006 YZF-R6 Raven black

96 Black GTS
PI heads, vortech, 8lbs of boost

Dyno Tuned by Houston Performance
399.1 hp 367.1 tq SAE
424.4 hp 390.4 tq Actual


New setup:
Forged shortblock
HP turbo kit with twin 67s
Built AOD
FAST xfi
Dual A1000 fuel pumps and 150 lb injectors


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post #5 of 18 Old 02-10-2006, 08:52 PM
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Do NOT run the tach adapters with the FAST!!! E-mail me if you want me to shoot you a start up .gct file for your FAST. [email protected]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but last few times I just checked my pm's and nothing was there.

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post #6 of 18 Old 02-10-2006, 09:34 PM
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You will HAVE to post pictures of your install. That setup is going to be wicked cool. With a twin turbo 89 and a blower 97, you cannot help but think how nice that HP setup would be on the 97.
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post #7 of 18 Old 02-11-2006, 01:40 AM
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I don't know, but step down from the twin T67's ASAP. You're looking at about 5500 RPM's to make full boost with them, and they are way too big for your goals of 900 RWHP.

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post #8 of 18 Old 02-11-2006, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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The 5500rpms is fine this is only a drag car. We'll be able to spool them up on the brake and we're spinning the motor to 8000rpms. I know a few guys who have them on 4V motors and while my heads don't flow quite as well as they do with all the port work them come pretty close. And they havn't had to many problems spooling them up. The 900rwhp is basically just a prelimiary goal. We're looking to top 1000rwhp when its done and these turbos are supposed to support 1400 at the flywheel which should but us at about 1150 at the wheels through an automatic.

Bill


2006 YZF-R6 Raven black

96 Black GTS
PI heads, vortech, 8lbs of boost

Dyno Tuned by Houston Performance
399.1 hp 367.1 tq SAE
424.4 hp 390.4 tq Actual


New setup:
Forged shortblock
HP turbo kit with twin 67s
Built AOD
FAST xfi
Dual A1000 fuel pumps and 150 lb injectors


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post #9 of 18 Old 02-11-2006, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich
You will HAVE to post pictures of your install. That setup is going to be wicked cool. With a twin turbo 89 and a blower 97, you cannot help but think how nice that HP setup would be on the 97.
Erich
I'll definetly have pictures up. I talked to Jet Hot friday and they have all my hot and cold tubing and it'll be shipping out from them this thursday or friday. And HP shipped my customer box with my turbos, suspension, boost controller and all the V bands and couplers yesterday so it should be here mid week. I'll make sure and post some pics of all of that as it comes in.

BTW i have some pics of all the parts that have already arrived in this post

https://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=751525


2006 YZF-R6 Raven black

96 Black GTS
PI heads, vortech, 8lbs of boost

Dyno Tuned by Houston Performance
399.1 hp 367.1 tq SAE
424.4 hp 390.4 tq Actual


New setup:
Forged shortblock
HP turbo kit with twin 67s
Built AOD
FAST xfi
Dual A1000 fuel pumps and 150 lb injectors


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post #10 of 18 Old 02-17-2006, 04:45 PM
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I'm considering a twin 67 setup with ball-bearing 67s. Would they still be too big for a 331 looking to push 700rwhp on pump gas and 1000+ on race gas?

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post #11 of 18 Old 02-18-2006, 12:01 AM
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Twin 67mm turbos are good for about 700-750 RWHP each, depending on the turbine wheels you choose. Definitely overkill for a 1000 RWHP setup. Even with a race-geared setup and a loose converter with a transbrake it's going to be sluggish to come up on boost and you could have nitrous/blower guys tree you. I love my GT35R's for the street, they make 20 pounds of boost by about 4000 RPM's, and will support around 1250 RWHP.

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Last edited by 1000HP; 02-18-2006 at 12:06 AM.
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post #12 of 18 Old 02-18-2006, 01:05 AM
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How different are the GT35Rs from the GTBB3035s that went in the incon 800tti kit? I understand that they make great power, but are unreliable at large boost.

Chris
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-18-2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastDriver
How different are the GT35Rs from the GTBB3035s that went in the incon 800tti kit? I understand that they make great power, but are unreliable at large boost.

Chris
The GT35R's are significantly larger than anything that went on Incon kits. The incon kits used a T25 exhaust flange, and I believe the turbos in the 800tti kits were GT2871R's, capable of about 350 WHP each. The GT35R turbine wheel flows as much as a T4 P-trim turbine, but is more efficient and will spool quicker. The GT35R compressor side flows ~65 pounds a minute of air, so that's significantly more than anything incon ever sent out with their kits. You can get GT35R's with a T3 or T4 turbine housing, I'm personally running .68 A/R tangential T4 turbine housings.

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post #14 of 18 Old 02-22-2006, 12:07 PM
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Good luck trying to run 2 pumps seperate like that as well. Sounds cool, but not very consistent. With the second pump turning on and off all the time, the transition at the time frame is gonna be a pain to tune around, not to mention the pressure differences and voltage drop/current draw on the vehicle's system...

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post #15 of 18 Old 02-23-2006, 08:01 AM
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I wouldn't even bother with the twin A1000 pumps. I'd recommend running dual external Bosch 390 pumps. They're OEM quality (BMW uses them I believe) and I don't know anyone who's had one fail.

I also think 160 pound injectors is a little much for 900 HP. I'm looking to make 800 at the wheels and I'm only running 72#'s.

Lastly, and I don't know about the 2v for sure, I'd look into what the stock ignition will handle. On the 4v the stock ignition with a boost a spark is good into the 8's. You don't really need a fast system until you get well over 1000 hp. (So I've been told anyway)

Good luck with the project.

Alan

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post #16 of 18 Old 02-23-2006, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Well we're running the dual A1000s cuz aeromotive is sponsoring the project. Which is the same reason we're running alot of the stuff we are. I don't rell think we've over strieved with anything. The fuel system is good to about 1600hp and thats about where we want to be when its all done. The 900 is just a preliminary goal for the first round of tuning. I don't forsee any problem with the second pump. We've talked to several guys running it and mike murillo has tuned a couple with this setup and has no problem with it ad long as you use the fast system to control turning it on for consistancy. The biggest reason we went with the FAST syetm is 1 once again they jumped on board the project and 2 is cuz i honestly don't trust a stock ford computer over 800hp. They just don't have the tuning parameters needed and a mass air flow system is definetly not the best when running a turbo due to the non linear boost curves they produce. Plus having a wide band in the engine managment is ideal for us. Everything is starting to finally come together. We just got the cams in from cam motion and the rest of the valve train parts. We'll be putting the shortblock together any day now and the turbo kit is supposed to be here tomorrow so then we'll start mocking it up and i'll get some pics posted.

Bill


2006 YZF-R6 Raven black

96 Black GTS
PI heads, vortech, 8lbs of boost

Dyno Tuned by Houston Performance
399.1 hp 367.1 tq SAE
424.4 hp 390.4 tq Actual


New setup:
Forged shortblock
HP turbo kit with twin 67s
Built AOD
FAST xfi
Dual A1000 fuel pumps and 150 lb injectors


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post #17 of 18 Old 02-25-2006, 09:01 AM
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If they're sponsoring the car I'd run their stuff too.

I wasn't aware a turbo delivered a non linear boost curve. I was under the impression it was more linear than a centrifigual blower. HHmmm...

Seems like a bad ass project though. I assume it's not a street car, right?

Alan

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post #18 of 18 Old 02-25-2006, 11:15 AM
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A centrifugal blower is, for all intents and purposes, exactly linear with regard to engine rpm because it depends upon the speed of the accessory belt in its application of boost. However, turbos depend on load, not engine rpm in their application of boost, and they are, therefore, not linear with regard to engine rpm.

Chris
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