What size turbo would you run on a 408 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 12-09-2005, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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What size turbo would you run on a 408

What size turbos would you run on a 408 canfield heads 9.0 compreseion and run tw turbos

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post #2 of 45 Old 12-09-2005, 04:30 PM
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How much power do you want to make?

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post #3 of 45 Old 12-10-2005, 09:06 AM
 
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T76 should be very impressive.......
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post #4 of 45 Old 12-10-2005, 09:25 AM
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91.5

Anyone can sit in the stands and talk s**t. Get out there and RACE!!!
PT76GTS blowthrough...sold. Cool but not what I wanted.
was running a 14 to 1 Man O War 427 with High Ports.Sold.
now running a 412 Windsor with Vic heads and a .700 solid roller
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post #5 of 45 Old 12-10-2005, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisa351
91.5

Twin 91.5's?? Depending on how much power he wants, I'd say that's probably overkill.
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post #6 of 45 Old 12-10-2005, 02:45 PM
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Maybe I should slow down and read the post properly...I missed the part about twins.

I really cant answer anything about twins as my only experience is with my single 76GTS.

That would be cool though twin 91s...hell I think Lynch only has 88s (I may be wroing)


Anyone can sit in the stands and talk s**t. Get out there and RACE!!!
PT76GTS blowthrough...sold. Cool but not what I wanted.
was running a 14 to 1 Man O War 427 with High Ports.Sold.
now running a 412 Windsor with Vic heads and a .700 solid roller
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post #7 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 08:36 AM
 
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That would be cool though twin 91s
lol, that would be wicked man....holy cow
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post #8 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 09:39 AM
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turbo selection

According to Turbonetics you could use a T76GTS, Y2K80, Y2K88. The T76GTS would have boost at any RPM whereas the bigger stuff would not come on boost til later. Dave From Majestic Turbo is the man to ask though, he built the turbo for this car
http://www.turbomustangs.com/project.../brentmain.php

I asked him about my 408 and he said:
Turbonetics lists their Super T-76, Q-Trim with a .96A/R exhaust good for 1000hp on engines up to 8.0 liter(488ci). You should be just fine with your 408. The Precision PT-76GTS is rated up to 1100hp. Both are excellent turbos and should be great performers on your car. The next step up would be a T-88, rated at 1200 hp. but would have very different driving characteristics. The 76 will be pretty much instant boost regardless of rpm. The 88 will need rpm and exhaust flow to get rolling, probably start making boost around 3500-4000, and full boost by 5000 -6000. This are just guesstimates as there are to many variables to pinpoint the exact rpm.

These are what I like for a street car for stoplight to stoplight performance. Now if you want a drag set up or have bragging rights on dyno day, then I would go with the T-88.

www.miketurboinc.com
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post #9 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 10:19 AM
 
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what you are looking for is a turbo off a v6 detroit diesel cold side a/r .75 hot side a/r 1.23-.89. have a friend here in kc who is running a 408 w/ this turbo, he puts down 707 to the wheels and 660 or so tq. running 12's @ 140 lmao , but on DR's he runs 10's @ the same trap speed. go to purposebuilt.org his screenname is chris. check out his linx. btw i can get these turbos if you are interested, just sold one to a guy in huston for 330.00 shipped. i have pix if interested. guaranted to be in good working order.Bob
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post #10 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 11:01 AM
 
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btw there a t76 with a 3/8 shaft instead of a 5/16

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post #11 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 11:06 AM
 
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got any pictures of the turbo's bob? I would love to see what they look like....



hotwheels of insanemustangs.com
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post #12 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt93mustang
How much power do you want to make?
Without an answer to this question, seems like no one could give a valid recommendation.


I think "twins" came from the original question asking about turboS instead of turbo.

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post #13 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipe656
Without an answer to this question, seems like no one could give a valid recommendation.


I think "twins" came from the original question asking about turboS instead of turbo.

Yes, he hasn't responded back with his power goals, so its very difficult to recommend anything.

In the original post, he says he wants to run two turbos.
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post #14 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 04:30 PM
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A 408 will make tremendous exhaust volume - my T76 has instant boost, like a KB blower and I only have a 393 - additionally I have to run a full 3.5" exhaust and dumped wastegates to get backpressure to an acceptable 2:1. With a 408 backpressure will be a killer.

I have a T88 on order it should be here next week. The T76 is going on our 357 Lightning and it should be a perfect match. Look over the compressor maps for a T88 with a larger displacement motor like a 393 and you'll see that at about 14-18# of boost with 2:1 backpressure the efficiency is right smack in the 85% range - and chances are backpressure will even be less. There may be a bit more boost lag, but with a big cube motor, that's not really an issue.

I'd say go T88 - oif indeed you are going with a single - something I should have done from the beginning - but I suppose if I had, I'd have missed all the data I gathered on smalled turbos. Twins are a different story.

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post #15 of 45 Old 12-11-2005, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt93mustang
Yes, he hasn't responded back with his power goals, so its very difficult to recommend anything.

In the original post, he says he wants to run two turbos.
I did not know tw translated into two, I thought he wanted some fansy smanshi twisted wedge turbos

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post #16 of 45 Old 12-12-2005, 07:27 AM
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How would Gt40/88 single or twin work?? They seem to have nice sized exhaust flange etc for bigger engines???

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post #17 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 03:20 PM
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Is there a reason that I never see anyone recommend a Y2K80?
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post #18 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don 95Vert
A 408 will make tremendous exhaust volume - my T76 has instant boost, like a KB blower and I only have a 393 - additionally I have to run a full 3.5" exhaust and dumped wastegates to get backpressure to an acceptable 2:1. With a 408 backpressure will be a killer.
How do you figure out your backpressure ratio?
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post #19 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG
Is there a reason that I never see anyone recommend a Y2K80?
I can't speak for everyone, but there are a few reasons I don't recommend them.

1) They retail for $2800.00
2) They are Single Ball Bearing
3) They are usually cheaper, better dual ball bearing options
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post #20 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 04:19 PM
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thanks, gt93
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post #21 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88mustang427
How do you figure out your backpressure ratio?
You measure it with a pressure gauge in the crossover.

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post #22 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 10:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don 95Vert
my T76 has instant boost, like a KB blower and I only have a 393

I have a T88 on order it should be here next week. Look over the compressor maps for a T88 with a larger displacement motor like a 393 and you'll see that at about 14-18# of boost with 2:1 backpressure the efficiency is right smack in the 85% range - and chances are backpressure will even be less. There may be a bit more boost lag, but with a big cube motor, that's not really an issue.
Don
Don...I've got a PT88 on a 383 ci motor.. And it's part throttle torque totally blows away a Kenne-Bell.. Lag is virtually non-existent.. And the power comes on so hard it's scary..

I tell people all the time.. It's LESS scary to heat up the slicks and leave the line on the transbrake, than it is roll down the return road, and roll into the throttle at any speed.. On the un-prepped surface of the return road, part throttle is wild and hairy.. I don't see how anyone would want something like this on the street.. But that's just IMO ...

Check out this short video of my car if you havn't seen it in awhile..
www.stangtuning.com/videos/bellman.wmv
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post #23 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 10:28 PM
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I think a lot of people want all this power because they read about it in a magazine or online or hear about it where ever, but in all reality they have no clue what it is like to have it and try to use it in a place like the streets. Then of course you just have all the looneys out there that know full well what it is like and still want more.

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post #24 of 45 Old 12-14-2005, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellman Jeff
Don...I've got a PT88 on a 383 ci motor.. And it's part throttle torque totally blows away a Kenne-Bell.. Lag is virtually non-existent.. And the power comes on so hard it's scary..

Check out this short video of my car if you havn't seen it in awhile..
www.stangtuning.com/videos/bellman.wmv
Yes I saw that video Jeff - AMAZING!! I'll have to catch your time though... that's my duty... LOL!! I doubt I can do it this time like I did with the KB. Plus I don't race anymore - 40 years of drag racing are enough. Rob, my son is the driver at the track now.

My car is mainly a street car - but I know what you are saying about traction - I run MT DRs on the street and if I go to pass someone on the highway at 55 MPH and get on it too much, the car goes all over the road - and that's with the PT76. The 88 will be just stupid on the street.... but that's the point, isn't it?

There is no comparison between this setup and my old KB - boost comes on similar, but that's about it. I'm having tranny problems now - it doesn't want to do a 2-3 shift. The torque tables are just so far maxed out the EEC cannot deal with it. We are going to try a Bauman controller to see if that helps, if it does not, I may have found the limit for a built 4R70W and it'll be time for a C4. What tranny are you running?

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post #25 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 12:44 AM
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I would not even attempt to run a C4 at that power level in that weight car. I'd just step right to the glide but I know a lot of people just insist on having a 3 speed auto and go usually with a TH400 and sometimes a C6. I know a C6 built to handle that type of power damn near costs what a glide would cost and the glide offers a better starting gear IMHO.

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post #26 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 07:20 AM
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I've thought about all that - I don't think a 2 speed glide would work for a 90% street car and I've always thought you need a light car for a glide. A C6 I think is physically too big to fit, although I may be wrong - it's my understanding it's the same size as an E4OD and it's WAY bigger than a 4R70W and that is a tight fit. PA sells the 1000 HP capable C4 guaranteed for life. Plus the C4 is lighter than what I have now. I'm not familiar with a TH400, so I better look into it. Right now I'm hoping the Bauman controller will tame the 4R70W...

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post #27 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don 95Vert
I've thought about all that - I don't think a 2 speed glide would work for a 90% street car and I've always thought you need a light car for a glide. A C6 I think is physically too big to fit, although I may be wrong - it's my understanding it's the same size as an E4OD and it's WAY bigger than a 4R70W and that is a tight fit. PA sells the 1000 HP capable C4 guaranteed for life. Plus the C4 is lighter than what I have now. I'm not familiar with a TH400, so I better look into it. Right now I'm hoping the Bauman controller will tame the 4R70W...
Why do you think that about the glide? We took a 1200hp twin turbo 87 GT and when the Tremec exploded put in the built C6 we had for it and after burning up a few of those we went to a built glide. This car was every bit of a 90% street car. It actually was more controllable on the street and therefore more fun to drive with the glide than any of the other options. The best way I could describe it is that the first gear in the glide was like a happy mixture of 1st and 2nd in the C6 then 2nd in the glide was just like 3rd gear in the C6. A C6 will fit your car, that is what Dean out of San Antonio has ran in both his turbo applications on his 95 GT. He runs the built up C6 from Trans King down in Galveston but as I said that thing is pricey and might as well go with a glide at that point. I know a glide will also fit because the person I bought my T56 off of had a 94 or 95 Cobra, he went to a built AOD from Art Carr but after problems got one from Lentech then ultimately he went to a glide.

That C4 might last with it being a 90% street car, but it will die with decent amount of track duty. The hp rating is one thing, the torque and how it comes on with the turbo car is another. I have seen countless people in high hp turbo applications wear out or kill C4 transmissions.

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post #28 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 11:57 AM
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Bellman, I also have a 383 & am currently evaluating different turbo's for it. My car is also a 90% street car. How well do you think your PT88 would work if you turned down the boost for street duty? And if you don't mind how much boost are you seeing currently?
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post #29 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipe656
Why do you think that about the glide?
Thanks for the good info Snipe! It opens up more possibilities.

CSG: A PT88 is not going to like low boost as in <12# or so - if you really want to run 10-12# of boost go with what I had: a PT76GTQ it was OK at 12 or so. Most of the bigger turbos are most efficient at higher boost levels. When you look at a compressor map for a T88 turbo and use typical 393 flow data at 9# of boost and a P/R of 2:1 (if you can get that) you are to the left of the surge line which is not a good place to be.

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post #30 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 01:56 PM
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Thanks Don, I should have been more specific on "low boost". I currently run 11lbs of centri. boost to achieve 648rwhp. I find this to be controllable for my street driving. Although with the torque of a turbo setup that same boost level may not be controllable or probably won't be! I am leaning towards the 76 or maybe a twin setup.
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Don... I went straight to a built Turbo400.. With the JW bellhousing it's a bolt in deal.. I did have to fabricate new mounts for the tranny cross member.. And my aluminum TCI transmission shield wouldn't fit the tranny tunnel.. But an RCI tranny ballistic blanket does real nice..

CSG... Don or Snipe could probably tell you better than I can, about how efficient the 88 will be at lower boost pressures.. The thing about bigger ci motors is they don't take alot of boost to make big power.. If you look at the video I posted.. In that I'm leaving the line with about 4 or 5 lbs of boost.. And it takes about a second to a second and a half to ramp up to full boost (currently set at about 18 psi)..

When all 4 pre-stage lights are turned on.. I just floor it on the 2 step at 4000 rpms.. In the 1 to 2 seconds that it takes for the tree to come down (I release the transbrake before the last yellow light), the boost climbs slowly to 4 or 5 lbs..Then climbs faster when all cylinders are turned on.. So there is lag.. But like I said..It only take a couple of pounds of boost on a motor that size for all hell to break loose..
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post #32 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 02:09 PM
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When talking about a stroked 351 with a turbo on it, it being friendly for street duty is probably more dependent upon the driver respecting the power of the car and being realistic than anything else. You can only turn the wick down so much. I'd probably do a twin setup and have the turbos sized for my app and goals, being realistic in my goals of course because while it certainly would be nice to have a 1500hp car that I could tune down to 600hp for the street I just do not see that happening. Although if you are dependent on a turbo kit, you might find more choices for single turbo kits on 351 motors than twins.

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post #33 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 02:18 PM
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flaboy63 - If I am stepping on your thread let me know, but I figure this is probably interesting to you also.

I will be fabricating my own kit. My goals are 650rwhp is street trim. 800rwhp at the strip. I figure this is an acceptable range if I pick the right equipment.
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post #34 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 02:23 PM
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If building it yourself and not racing in any classes that outlaw twins then I would go twins. I would call up a place that builds/sells turbos outline your goals and combination with them to get what is best.

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post #35 of 45 Old 12-15-2005, 05:20 PM
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Hey Jeff,

What kind of ET's are you running? I've got a 377 in my car with an HP spec'd 76mm (stage 3 street kit). I'll be upgrading it to an 88 this winter.

My setup has me launching at 3200rpm on the 2 step as I never had a chance to try higher. 1.32 - 1.35 60', and 9.3's @ 145. HP says the turbo is maxed out based upon the MPH, hence the upgrade to an 88mm.

Click here to watch the video
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