Why aren't turbo chargers mainstream? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Why aren't turbo chargers mainstream?

This is not a flame against turbo's at all. If I had the money I would take a turbo or a supercharger or whatever. In fact I went to a car show yesterday in CT and a guy a sick twin-turbo Mustang that got all the attention...

Anyway just wondering why turbo's aren't mainstream, you never see them in magazine ads, not too much information out there on them, and I wouldn't even know where to buy one honestly.

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post #2 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csilkman
If I had the money I would take a turbo or a supercharger or whatever.
Thats one of the reasons, the cost associated with them, a supercharger kit will cost you around $3000, a professionally built turbo setup can be upwards of 4-5, the entry level on them is higher due to the fact that they have exhaust etc.. Also the ease of installation differs, putting nitrous on a car takes only a few hours while a turbo could take a weekend (or more if you're putting together a jy kit).


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post #3 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 10:24 AM
 
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And other than the money part - most aftermarket mustang guys tend to do the works themselves - and Turbos are way more complex to install. After installing mine, I undersand why the majority of people will put a S/C on instead..

I have spent over a month putting mine on.

-Jason
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post #4 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediumRed91LX
Thats one of the reasons, the cost associated with them, a supercharger kit will cost you around $3000, a professionally built turbo setup can be upwards of 4-5, the entry level on them is higher due to the fact that they have exhaust etc.. Also the ease of installation differs, putting nitrous on a car takes only a few hours while a turbo could take a weekend (or more if you're putting together a jy kit).

Yeah a base Supercharger kit...without a intercooler, injectors, MAF, calibrated chip, professionally built headers and full exhaust (excluding mufflers). Any person with any auto experience can install a turbo kit. Just remember you take the base supercharger kit and start adding all the goodies, and your going to be right there with the turbocharger kits or more. Now I'm talking about the 89-93 and 94-95 5.0's.
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post #5 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostedred5.0
Yeah a base Supercharger kit...without a intercooler, injectors, MAF, calibrated chip, professionally built headers and full exhaust (excluding mufflers). Any person with any auto experience can install a turbo kit. Just remember you take the base supercharger kit and start adding all the goodies, and your going to be right there with the turbocharger kits or more. Now I'm talking about the 89-93 and 94-95 5.0's.
But people do not look at the long term cost, heck most people are barely able to pay for that base SC kit.

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post #6 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies, all valid points.
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post #7 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 12:38 PM
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plus you dont have any large companies like vortech and paxton selling turbo kits. its mostly smaller shops that have a pretty small and time extensive output

if a company came along and started making kits using a jig and could have the kits IN STOCK ready to ship for whatever the customer needed it would be very successful. you think vortech makes their kits one by one as customers call? i mean how hard could it be to have 10 5.0 fox kits or 10 sn95 kits in stock at all times? what are these guys doing? one kit shoud be identical to the next, it shouldnt be so hard to get the stuff out on time to the customers

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post #8 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Gager
plus you dont have any large companies like vortech and paxton selling turbo kits. its mostly smaller shops that have a pretty small and time extensive output

if a company came along and started making kits using a jig and could have the kits IN STOCK ready to ship for whatever the customer needed it would be very successful. you think vortech makes their kits one by one as customers call? i mean how hard could it be to have 10 5.0 fox kits or 10 sn95 kits in stock at all times? what are these guys doing? one kit shoud be identical to the next, it shouldnt be so hard to get the stuff out on time to the customers
I believe Hellion kits are built off a jig or through some mechanized process. I think they teamed up with Bassini and that is who is making all the fabricated pieces for them. Then they have kits sitting on the shelf. I think a lot of the companies just do not have the capital to have things sitting on the shelf.

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post #9 of 35 Old 07-25-2005, 01:00 PM
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Having 20 kits on the shelf is probably 60-80k of capital sitting doing nothing = not a good return on investment for small companies that are already fully loaded with orders (PTK, HP).

However, Hellion is distinguishing themselves from most of their competitors by using the "on the shelf" kits as a marketing move (a pretty smart one too if they have the capital to maintain it) to entice customers to try out their new kits instead of the more proven HP or PTK kits.

Also, all the major makers almost certainly use jigs to make their standard kits. I am almost certain PTK has told me they do. It just makes good business sense from an economical and quality standpoint.

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post #10 of 35 Old 07-26-2005, 01:19 AM
 
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cost.......pure and simple.............once you have invested the money though, you will realize there is no better power adder.......


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post #11 of 35 Old 07-26-2005, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cld12pk2go
Having 20 kits on the shelf is probably 60-80k of capital sitting doing nothing = not a good return on investment for small companies that are already fully loaded with orders (PTK, HP).

However, Hellion is distinguishing themselves from most of their competitors by using the "on the shelf" kits as a marketing move (a pretty smart one too if they have the capital to maintain it) to entice customers to try out their new kits instead of the more proven HP or PTK kits.

Also, all the major makers almost certainly use jigs to make their standard kits. I am almost certain PTK has told me they do. It just makes good business sense from an economical and quality standpoint.
well good to see someone has stepped into the 21st century lol

it still shouldnt take 12 months to get a kit from the other companies though!
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post #12 of 35 Old 07-26-2005, 06:12 PM
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My PTK kit was delivered after ~13 weeks, except for the A/C lines which I haven't gotten the correct ones in 15 months...still working on that.
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post #13 of 35 Old 07-26-2005, 07:58 PM
 
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it still shouldnt take 12 months to get a kit from the other companies though!
that is exactly right........problem i have noticed over the year's is that the turbo builder's/manufactor's take on more then they can do. Not only are they trying to make a buck off of our beloved mustangs, they are doing chevy's, dodge's, etc.......so they tend to loose track of priorities, which should be the customer.....hopefully with companies like hellion power system's coming to the turbo town, they will help increase some of the other companies speed on kit building time.......hellion keep's up to 20 kit's instock at all times. Right now, they are totally focused on mustangs.........


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post #14 of 35 Old 07-26-2005, 10:45 PM
 
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#1 reasons.
Impatience= None of us like to wait for something, so if its not in stock, we go elsewhere and buy something differant.
2nd=cost..Us mustang guys are a lil more down to earth, a lil more poor compared to these viper, Transam guys etc. How many of us just have 3to 5 grand laying around to dump into our cars, were poor, but still faster than the yuppy's in the vette's



Installing these things arent hard, but are time consuming, most of us use our stangs as our daily drivers and cant have them down for more than a day at a time. Do it yourself, junkyard kits are great, but still, you have to tear down your car to fabricate and then have it back running later that day to go to work tommorow.
post #15 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 02:57 AM
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It comes down to ease of installation and cost. It took me months to build my kit. I could have bought a big blower and been running in a few weeks.

Turbos rule every class of racing they are let in. There is no better power adder.

I have sprayed, had a blower...and nothing comes close to the turbo.

Anyone can sit in the stands and talk s**t. Get out there and RACE!!!
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post #16 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db1994
And other than the money part - most aftermarket mustang guys tend to do the works themselves - and Turbos are way more complex to install. After installing mine, I undersand why the majority of people will put a S/C on instead..

I have spent over a month putting mine on.

-Jason
I BUILT mine in less than a month.
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post #17 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisa351
It comes down to ease of installation and cost. It took me months to build my kit. I could have bought a big blower and been running in a few weeks.

Turbos rule every class of racing they are let in. There is no better power adder.

I have sprayed, had a blower...and nothing comes close to the turbo.
Actually the dont rule anymore. PRO has seen a upsurge in IHRA Pro Stock cars (800ci NA) being VERY competetive. I read a list of the qualifiers at a major event... Not one turbo small block till 7th or 9th place.
If you read the rules turbos are too limited. They are only allowed in PRO, 10.5W, SSO, and DR. Those are all 6-8 second classes.
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post #18 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Jay D
I BUILT mine in less than a month.
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post #19 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 07:03 PM
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i bought the hellion kit and its great the customer service is awesome . i had a hp twin kit on order and canceled it a week later , and got my hellion kit the next day .hp kept my 4200.00 down payment for a full month before they gave it back. a friend of mine bought the hp kit ordered weeks before i did and he is still waiting on his kit. mine has been installed for allmost a month .the installation was easy and i was done in less than 20 hrs , its a very nice kit and makes some pretty nice power , i upgraded to the t-66 and on 12 psi it makes 500/560 and on 20 psi i dont know the power but it sure is fast.

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post #20 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 07:08 PM
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post #21 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 09:42 PM
 
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post #22 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
#1 reasons.
Installing these things arent hard, but are time consuming, most of us use our stangs as our daily drivers and cant have them down for more than a day at a time. Do it yourself, junkyard kits are great, but still, you have to tear down your car to fabricate and then have it back running later that day to go to work tommorow.
My 95 Cobra has been on chocks since Sept 03 I'm still in the process of building a JY TT kit.

These things may not be "mainstream" but with a lot of the big racers using them, and winning more and more people are getting interested. They are the best forced induction source over the long haul, but all the reasons listed are 100% valid for why they don't rule.

I'd say the biggest reason that turbo companies don't keep a bunch in stock would be the exhaust headers/manifolds. As was mentioned, to keep more than a handful of them sitting around would chew up a large portion of any company's capital. I'd imagine a quality casting setup would be pretty costly as well to do cast iron. In today's lean manufacturing and just in time world, keeping this much inventory is against the norm.

It was also a good point to mention that there are very few companies who specialize in one make and model. If a company does turbo kits for Stangs, LS1s, LT1s, etc, which ones should they make 10 of?

Matt.
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post #23 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 10:53 PM
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Hell, I started my turbo project may 04....I am just replacing headgasket #1 now....

Hopefully, I will have the gremlins appeased before much longer...
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post #24 of 35 Old 07-27-2005, 11:58 PM
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Turbos are mainstream...just on diesels.
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post #25 of 35 Old 07-28-2005, 04:41 PM
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what is hellion's website ??
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post #26 of 35 Old 07-28-2005, 04:43 PM
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http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/

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post #27 of 35 Old 07-29-2005, 12:13 AM
 
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yup, if i was to do it again, i would go with the hellion system myself........
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post #28 of 35 Old 07-29-2005, 12:50 AM
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I am really surprised people do not bad mouth the design of the Hellion. I am not saying it is bad, I am just surprised because in the past some of the key features of the Hellion like the log header on the Fox body were always the big things people used online to bash the Cartech and TTI street kits. Personally if I were to buy a turbo kit today it would be for my Saleen and one very important thing to me would be no cutting to the car at all. With that being the case I'd be limited to Turbo Time or Hellion, and maybe TTI street kit. I am sure there are some others but those would be the three I would be picking from more than likely.

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post #29 of 35 Old 07-29-2005, 02:49 AM
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I think it took so long cause that I built my kit while my wife was pregnant and needed lots of help, plus I had to learn to TIG weld along the way. Not to mention I was getting my new house built.

I could probably do it now in a couple of months.

By the way...good job on the win

Anyone can sit in the stands and talk s**t. Get out there and RACE!!!
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post #30 of 35 Old 07-29-2005, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominghotwheels
yup, if i was to do it again, i would go with the hellion system myself........
Same here, if I didn't own the red headed step child...

Matt.
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post #31 of 35 Old 08-01-2005, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jay D
I BUILT mine in less than a month.
Yeah, but im a typical "work on the car a few hours every weekend" guy, not a "My car is in MM&FF" guy . Plus - I am bad about doing the whole "well, now that this is off, i might as well replace it with something cooler" syndrome.

That being said - thanks to dman's help all day saturday - barrring a disaster I should be driving on the new setup this weekend.

-Jason
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post #32 of 35 Old 08-03-2005, 10:28 AM
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Why doesn't hellion have a kit for the 96-98 Cobra? (or the 94-98 Mustang for that matter?)

Alan

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post #33 of 35 Old 08-03-2005, 10:41 AM
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Dunno, probably have to ask them that question. It would be more like why not one for the 94-95 Mustangs then why not one for the 96-98 and so on. Perhaps they found there just was not a strong enough market for those models to justify the R&D to make a kit for them and the capital needed to have kits on the shelf for them.

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post #34 of 35 Old 08-03-2005, 10:53 AM
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I emailed them. I'll post when I get an answer.

A

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post #35 of 35 Old 08-03-2005, 11:11 AM
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I think you answered your own question. Most people can install a blower in a day or so, turbo projects can take a lot longer, especially if building your own.

http://www.boostang.com

Kyle

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