Too much boost! - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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Angry Too much boost!

late last year i started having a problem of my incon car making too much boost. it's always creeped, but it's gotten worse. i want a max of 10psi. last night i disconnected the actuators and WIRED the wastegates open. now the boost comes in really slow, like a centrifugal, but i still get 12psi. how can i make 12psi with the wastegates wired open?!?!?
thanxs for any help.


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post #2 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 10:38 AM
 
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my advice would be stop relying on the wastegate for your boost control. pick up a simple ball and spring manual boost controller. you'll experiene much more solid control over the boost (and safer) for short money.

your boost arrives slow b/c with the w/g open, you're throwing some of the exhaust gas away before it really spins the turbine. i'd unwire it, as you're throwing away spool up gasses, and pick up a boost controller.

www.boostcontroller.com has the basic ones you're looking for. should set you back $55.

what type of wastegate are you running? have you considered a lower rated spring?

dR

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post #3 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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boost controller will NOT control minimum boost. it just interupts the signal to the wastegate causing an increase in boost.
my turbos use internal wastegates (operated by external actuators). i disconnected the actuators from the w/g, then i wired the w/g into the fully open position. b.c. will not help me at all. actually all the b.c. do on my car is cause the boost to spike.

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post #4 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 01:29 PM
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you can cut a short section out of your wastegate actuator arms and thread each end of them where you cut them. then put a threaded coupler of some sort on it which will allow you to shorten or lenghten the overall length of the arm thus giving you the ability to adjust the base boost setting up or down a little bit. you can see an example at this website http://www.denverspeed.com/wastegates.html of how to cut it and thread it. i did it pretty similar to that only i didn't use the spring on the rod like he did and my boost curve still acts just like normal only i can set it to a higher or lower base. there is a little slack where you can lengthen the rod some while still keeping the actual wastegate closed so it lowers the base boost setting w/out causing any additional lag from having it hung open some. you can feel how much it can be adjusted w/out it coming open and that will probably be enough to get you closer back to where you want to be - 10 psi w/out having it open. if you do have it adjusted too much and the door is cracked open, it will allow carbon to build up and the door will never close correctly unless you take the turbo out and clean it. this can also be used as i said to tighten the rod down shorter and then it brings the base boost from say 12psi to 14psi. i would give that a shot - i'm pretty sure you'll be able to get it down 2 psi w/out even having the wastegate accidentally open making for a crappy boost curve. it will be just like stock.
good luck,
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 02:55 PM
 
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Re: Too much boost!

Quote:
Originally posted by twofast
late last year i started having a problem of my incon car making too much boost.
Quote:
Originally posted by twofast
boost controller will NOT control minimum boost. it just interupts the signal to the wastegate causing an increase in boost.
what do you want, to control MAX boost or MIN boost?

boost controller has NOTHING to do with minimum boost. at idle you'll be in vacuum regardless of how you're controlling boost (ECU, MBC, EBC). that's your "minimum" boost by definition (as it's negative)

if you chose a bleeder valve instead of a ball and spring, you won't experience any spiking, but the minor spiking associated with a good double ball and spring boost controller will be minimal. joep makes a nice product, as does hallman.

using the w/g to control boost is like using a shotgun to kill a mosquito. it's just not refined enough for accurate, fast building control. use the smallest length of hose b/w the turbo, BC and w/g to minimize signal delay. wiring that thing open is wasting all kinds of spool up, and leaving a ton of low end power on the table. but...

your problem isn't with buidling boost. it's with stopping it!

onw question, how are you building boost if the wastegate never shuts? the whole purpose of the wastegate is to stop the system from building boost while the throttle plate is open. throttle plate shuts, your blowoff should then be the release.

if you're still making boost with an open w/g, perhaps you should go to an external w/g design like tial which will have a larger opening.

dR

Last edited by dark_rex; 05-19-2003 at 03:08 PM.
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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dark-rex: thanx for taking the time to try to help me with my problem.
ok, let me clarify: if my actuators are set on their lowest boost setting (least amount of preload), then a b.c. will only help with raising the boost from that setting. the actuator, being spring loaded, requires a certain amount of pressure to open the w/g. a b.c. cannot lower that setting, only raise it.
my problem is that i'm getting too much boost, even with the actuators on their lowest setting (or even disconnected completely).
if i'm getting 12psi on the lowest actuator setting, then adding a b.c. (which i have) will only raise it from that point, not lower it.
besides, with the w/g wired open, i should not see any boost all, but i'm still getting 12+psi. i would like to have a MAXIMUM of 10psi.
thanx.
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-19-2003, 05:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by twofast
besides, with the w/g wired open, i should not see any boost all, but i'm still getting 12+psi. i would like to have a MAXIMUM of 10psi.
thanx.
that's where i hit the mental wall...

is the exhaust side small for the application? not enough physical space for the gas to bypass the wheel?

what blower is it?

my comment on going external w/ the w/g is uselss, b/c you're problem is about 6" behind that. sorry.
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-20-2003, 12:36 AM
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I’m running the Incon set up as well. When I had the actuators disconnected (didn’t even have the wg wired) I had NO boost at all.

If this is a new problem, then we need to figure out what has changed.

At one time I was running 11 psi & 10* base timing. It didn’t seem to have any detonation problems, but I decided to install the MSD boost control I had sitting around. When I set it at 1*, I had gained 5 psi. So I was now running at 16 psi but it felt a lot slower.

When your running at 12 psi with the wg wired, does it feel as strong as it did before?

Come to think of it, you shouldn’t have to wire the wg’s open because they open out. The exhaust backpressure created by turbo is enough to open them if the actuator is not connected. Try running them that way just in case the wire is causing some kind of conflict with movement of the wg.

It’s got to be a simple thing, it always is.

Just can’t abandon logic here. I’ll think more on this in the AM.




Bill
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-20-2003, 06:35 AM
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Sounds silly but did you wire them shut ???
Or has the w/g button stuck on housing and the shaft is moving in and out of the whole in button but from out side looks o.k..???

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post #10 of 10 Old 05-20-2003, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrWrenchPhD
At one time I was running 11 psi & 10* base timing. It didn’t seem to have any detonation problems, but I decided to install the MSD boost control I had sitting around. When I set it at 1*, I had gained 5 psi. So I was now running at 16 psi but it felt a lot slower.
perhaps my knock sensor has been activating and with all of the timing it pulls out, it's causing the boost to climb. it's in the glove box, so i have to get a co-pilot to watch it.

Quote:
Come to think of it, you shouldn’t have to wire the wg’s open because they open out.
at first i didn't have them wired open, just disconnected. but when i was getting boost, i wired them just to make sure. the results were the same.

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