4.6 2V?? Any turbo potential?? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 04-18-2003, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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4.6 2V?? Any turbo potential??

I am planning on carefully spending about 10K on a turbo kit on a 01 GT 2V and have already beefed up the engine and fuel system to hold this. I am seeing if I would be wasting my time adding a turbo to my car? Any suggestions?? I would like to run low 11's at least with an engine to last a semi considerable amount of time.. any suggestions?

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post #2 of 51 Old 04-18-2003, 01:44 AM
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there's potential with any mustang with a turbo...what exactly have you done to "beef" up your engine and fuel system?

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post #3 of 51 Old 04-18-2003, 08:00 AM
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www.turbolocity.com

I have their 2v turbo kit. The kit can take up to a T76, so you'll have no problem meeting your goals. My engine is stock so i'm leaving it at 9psi now. I haven't dynoed it at 9psi, but I made 347/403 on 6psi with an extremely safe tune and lifting at 5000rpm.


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post #4 of 51 Old 04-18-2003, 05:06 PM
 
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sizz youve also got the 02 computer which from my understanding is not so easy to tune which is why your numbers are lower then they say the kit makes. My 2v turbo car is still getting some stuff worked out but the potential for power is defenitly there. Wish i had another 10k to spend on this project.
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post #5 of 51 Old 04-19-2003, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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I have replaced pistons with some forged ones and changed the rods to h beamers. Do you think I should not "waste" my money on this?? Do you think a 2V mod motor would be unpredictable with a turbo with under 10 lbs. boost? I need a street strip car-and I hope this is the answer......... They want 10K dollars to install and tune the turbo. Its a turbonetics running at 10 lbs.. said I will be around 450 RWHP and 500+ RWTQ (thats what I like..........)
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post #6 of 51 Old 04-19-2003, 04:03 PM
 
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00 GT TURBO

I have a t76 tdc kit with a Gen 7 DFI 2.2 ignition on a 2000 GT.. It has a fuel system with 72 lb injectors. The car was tuned by JADEPERFORMANCE out of New Jersey.The car runs 18 lbs. of boost on the gauge. The car is insanely fast. It will haze the tires in 3rd gear. The motor is bone stock. This is the ticket!!! If you have the money to spend this is the ticket.The tune is the key to a 2 valve to run and last.3
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post #7 of 51 Old 04-19-2003, 04:44 PM
 
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jade performance is in long island, NY not jersey. 10k for a turbo kit plus install seems a little high. total performance sells there kit for around 5500 and i think they install it for around 800 or so dont quote me on this though yould have to call brad for actual numbers these are just what i think i remembered. The kit comes with a chip from jms but im sure you could probably do a whole fuel system also for 10k. shop around a little more but the turbo is defenitly a nice way to go.
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post #8 of 51 Old 04-20-2003, 11:29 AM
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18psi on a stock 2v????

You need a new gauge. No way a stock 2v will take 18psi.

My rods let go at 14-16psi and it wasn't a "tune" issue because there wasn't any detonation(not a guess, fact from seeing the pistons). It's too much cylinder pressure for the stock rods - period.

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post #9 of 51 Old 04-20-2003, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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So what kinda numbers are you getting with those setups?? Could you think of anything else that would be necessary to have besides new rods pistons fuel system and better tyranny?? Do you think a T-56 would be a handful with 500RWHP on 4.10's??? Would I need a cobra crank or billet oil pump gears?? Finally :-) what could I rev my GT motor to with billet rods and how in the world does a turbo determine how much boost it puts out (is this adjustable like in a supercharger) Yet another rookie turbo guy. Thanks for your patience
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post #10 of 51 Old 04-20-2003, 11:11 PM
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The 02 2v's are making a bit less than previous cars - 99-01's are making between 400-430rwhp, the 02's like 380, one is making 360 with 6psi (the rest are at 8psi).

All depends how much power you want to make...for 500rwhp you might be able to get away with the 2v crank, but forged rods/pistons are a must and I would get the 03 cobra tank/pump for fuel. No reason to spend the money on billet rods until you're well over that hp mark.

Boost is adjustable by the wastegate.....most of the smaller turbos being offered can make far more than the 6-10psi being pushed through them.


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post #11 of 51 Old 04-21-2003, 04:17 AM
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The HP Performance kit will be out shortly. I've personally seen the kit and it looks pretty damn good and from hearing the combo that is used with it, it's going to perform awesome too. It will be cheaper than the 5500-6000 that people are talking about for the other kits.

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post #12 of 51 Old 04-21-2003, 06:19 AM
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All kits will always be out shortly....

Incon said that for over two years. Others have been saying it for a year plus. Some others? Over 6 months behind their 'scheduled' delivery dates. Others have said they'll be out in 45 days - 3x over......

If you want a pre-fabbed 4.6 kit - there is only one currently being made - the Turbolocity kit. There are however a few very reputable shops in FL that can make you a one off kit.

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post #13 of 51 Old 04-21-2003, 06:34 PM
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I just tested ITS' new kit friday evening. Long story short was 10rwhp more from an automatic equipped 99GT vs a comparable Novi 1000 kit on a manual with a LOT more midrange torque. Tuning it wasn't that bad for me at all, but we've done a LOT of turbos here on 5.0's and LS1's lately. The guys at ITS should have more info soon.

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post #14 of 51 Old 04-22-2003, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by snkypete
All kits will always be out shortly....

Incon said that for over two years. Others have been saying it for a year plus. Some others? Over 6 months behind their 'scheduled' delivery dates. Others have said they'll be out in 45 days - 3x over......

If you want a pre-fabbed 4.6 kit - there is only one currently being made - the Turbolocity kit. There are however a few very reputable shops in FL that can make you a one off kit.
The HP kit is to be released shortly i can assure you that since im good friends with these guys. Last i checked the first kit was on its way to coating and testing on a 03 with like 5 miles on it.
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post #15 of 51 Old 04-22-2003, 08:50 AM
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Ahhhhh....let the coating dilemmas begin. Sorry to sound skeptical, but in this market you would think by now companies (and people representing them) would wait until a kit was actually available for production before making it public knowledge....

The companies always blame the coaters....it's kind of a long standing joke in the turbo mustang world....

Let us know when it is actually available, we'd be interested in seeing it.

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post #16 of 51 Old 04-22-2003, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by snkypete
If you want a pre-fabbed 4.6 kit - there is only one currently being made - the Turbolocity kit. There are however a few very reputable shops in FL that can make you a one off kit.
The ITS one is out there, I do not really agree with some of the design points of it, but it sounds like it is working well enough on test vehicle(s).

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post #17 of 51 Old 04-22-2003, 12:32 PM
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I thought ITS was still in the testing of the intial kit phase? If they're now shipping, then they should obviously be included....the more the better IMO.

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post #18 of 51 Old 04-22-2003, 01:30 PM
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Guess you thought right Pete, because come to think of it the person I talk to here in town who has ordered one is still waiting on some more testing to be done if memory serves me correctly.

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post #19 of 51 Old 04-23-2003, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by snkypete
Ahhhhh....let the coating dilemmas begin. Sorry to sound skeptical, but in this market you would think by now companies (and people representing them) would wait until a kit was actually available for production before making it public knowledge....

The companies always blame the coaters....it's kind of a long standing joke in the turbo mustang world....

Let us know when it is actually available, we'd be interested in seeing it.
I dont know what your talking about by ''blaming the coaters'' i've seen the kit, its done, and i know they havent had a problem with the coating process in the past with they're Fox kit. That aside, they will have the 03 that they built the kit around at the World Ford Challenge in May with the kit on it and will have some kits with them for sale at the time. Also they will have a few Fox kits with them and a couple of Fox body cars that they have turbo'd will be running there.
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post #20 of 51 Old 04-23-2003, 05:38 PM
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Exactly....hang around the turbo mustang world for a while and you will see what we are talking about. Not doubting one bit that you've seen the kit - but that is a beta test car....I wasn't referring to HP directly about having a problem with the coater, guess you missed the point.

There are at least half a dozen companies out there who have said they are making kits for the 2v - and to date there are a few Incon cars, a few TDC cars, a few Total Performance cars, and a few custom built kits.

Incon is gone. TDC is gone. TP is the only company shipping a kit NOW. And even Brad is falling behind from all the orders.

Now if you look at the entire mustang turbo market (Fox3 included) several companies have kits. Some even offer 30day delivery dates.......

Many of these companies regularly miss their delivery dates -sometimes by SEVERAL weeks - the cause? They always say the kit is out being coated and there is a backlog. Which having dealt with two coating companies now, I know is not true and these companies are usually lying. It takes two weeks maximum door to door for Joe Average to get something coated - you're telling me a high volume B2B can't get it done sooner, let alone in the same amount of time???

Having one test kit a turbo company does not make. **I AM NOT SLAMMING THEM** but with all the crap the turbo mustang market has gone through, the last thing that is needed is one more kit that isn't available.

I wish HP the best, and hope they can bring their kit to market and that it does well. The more turbo companies out there for modulars, the larger the aftermarket and hopefully then some of the bigger companies will recognize the market and additional parts will be available for us.

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post #21 of 51 Old 04-23-2003, 05:55 PM
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I've been hanging around the t-mustang world for a while, not as long as some of you, but i've watched them through the designing,testing and marketing of the Fox kit, which from what i have seen has to be the best performing kit and most complete kit out, and have been watching them as the build and design the modular kit. I dont know if you were saying that the car they built the kit around was a BETA or Beater? But i can tell you this, if you were saying that its just a beater test car your wrong( not sure if thats what you meant), i wish i could disclose what/who's car it is but im not supposed to say. I can say that they base kit will have no problems make 450-500 uncorrected at the wheels at our elevation (5500ft at our dyno). I will be happy to post the results when they get them here soon. The kit will definatly be on the market by the end of the month, and at the very latest, May 15 when they take them to WFC.

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post #22 of 51 Old 04-23-2003, 06:37 PM
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Beta....not beater.(Funny, I thought that might raise an eyebrow from someone)

I've just seen several kits all say 'it will definitely be ready xxxx' and they always fall through.

Hopefully for our market, HP will break the trend.

Making 450-500rwhp isn't a problem with a turbo modular - the problem is keeping the motor together. The boost that is required to make 500rwhp (espeically at that elevation) will create way too much cylinder pressure for the stock rods to take (assuming it's a 2v and not an 03cobra). Making hp on a dyno and using it on the street are two totally different animals, anyone familiar with a dyno will tell you that (unless they did it on an eddy dyno). They would be much better off making 400-420 and offering offering a separate tune for those with internals. $.02 from experience.

Again I wish them well, but back in Jan I.C. was on here saying they would be done in 45 days....(and that was the *second* 45 days)....May is right around the corner....they've been awfully quiet lately

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post #23 of 51 Old 04-24-2003, 02:04 AM
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One thing that i've noticed about the cars that they have turbo'd is that they seem to make alot of power safely, as in numbers that should be breaking blocks first pull. Some how they dont. Hopefully it will be the same thing with this car, which i think it will.

Putting the power to the ground wont be a problem. The car will be ran in a few road races also not just at the strip. Its got some nice 18'' meat on it and already has a really nice aftermarket suspension setup all the way around. (remember that the car only has a few miles on it too) ( :

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post #24 of 51 Old 04-24-2003, 06:20 AM
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You don't break blocks during dyno pulls - there isn't any load. Not that it isn't possible, but you're more likely to break on the street than on a dyno.

They're going to road race with 18" rims??????? Interesting.

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post #25 of 51 Old 04-25-2003, 04:36 PM
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**** NOT flame ****


OK, THOUGHT I WOULD GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY, TURBO THREADS ALWAYS GET SO PERSONAL!!!!



now, how many "total performance/turbolocity" kits are on the street ALL DONE?

i have seen MANY people saying how their kit is on and done, "but i still need some tuning" or other things...bugs etc....

i wanna know, how many turbolocity kits are on the street, that can today drive their cars 1000 miles with no issues, still make the impressive power they dynod at after that trip, with no reliability worries?


what i am getting at, even tho this is the only kit in town, it's still not done from what i am reading.
even on their website, customers comp,lain their cars are not right, do not drive well, still waiting on this or that...etc....

i think the problem lies with people able to make a kit, fab it up and engineer it are not even close to business people, and cannot manage themselves out of a paperbag, and their biz suffers from it.
this is not a slam on brad, not in the least, i really like the guy, but there are like 10 companies doing turbos on stangs, two of which are under, and 5 of which are advertising vaporware.

for the life of me i cannot figure out why a company has not been started by someone with business knowledge, AND customization experience, as well as GOOD FRIGGEN CREDIT so they can get a business capitol loan and actually have 10 kits 10000000% complete and ready to ship when the kit is announced!

seems like they start in their garage, take peoples money, then engineer a prototype and have to sell it to make ends meet, then start all over again.

{insert fav turbo company name here## could take all their pipes that are fabbed up, send them off to a real company like... ohh burns stainless, or kooks, and have them duplicated in quantity and actually have kits ready to ship!
i know dealing with meatballs like corky bell for intercoolers is going to slow things down, but there are two more companies now other than BEGI that can supply intercoolers for the same price.


i tell ya, if i did not need a full time job for 6 months, i would get in the game, and show them how its done (i have good credit)

i guess maybe they are all in the same boat as me eh?? need income while they build?


ohh well, rant is over.

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post #26 of 51 Old 04-25-2003, 04:53 PM
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Best I can tell there are about 6 TP kits installed on cars that run today. There is Nathan's, Pete's(which I think he just finished his suspension upgrades), Brian's, Pat's, someone in Cali and someone in Florida. I know there are a couple others because I arranged for 5 definate kit purchases(one was Brians, one was Lou's and the other three I have not mentioned their names in this post because I do not remember them) and those are just the ones I know of and all 2V kits(no 4V seem to be driving). Only complaint I see strongly off based on their site is the tuning issues on the 02, Pat I think made close to 400rwhp and was not happy with that because he thought he would get 450rwhp(I think) but I also have seen SC guys with similar complaints about the 02 cars so it seems to be rather common. Most of them seem to never dyno the cars though, such as Brian I think with whopping 9 degrees of total timing and 6lbs of boost on his 02 he made 350rwhp or so, but he turned the boost up and never made it to the dyno again and best I can tell he drives the car all the time.

Actually Corky has been rather good about shipping IC cores, better than others out there. However Corky has done up in his pricing recently. I think IC cores are the least of worries now days, except for the guys shopping for the cheapest ones, would guess it is one of those deals where you get what you pay for.

So really it is still not done for the newer models (02 and 03) and not done in respects to the custom chip which is the same problem SC tuners are having as well so I guess those are not done either. I think the point that was trying to be made was if you want something today they are actually shipping things out where as the others are not, but I think that point is invalid or will be VERY soon. If I were looking into a 2V turbo solution today, I'd actually try to wait to see some cars with the ITS, PTK and TP kits since the other two are right around the corner. It is my understanding Cartech plans to show(at WFC) theirs soon as well, so that might be worth looking into as well since WFC is right around the corner.

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post #27 of 51 Old 04-25-2003, 07:18 PM
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The ITS one is out there, I do not really agree with some of the design points of it, but it sounds like it is working well enough on test vehicle(s).
Hmm, there is only two vehicles with t he 4.6 Its Kit, and the jury is still out I guess. There is a 97GT, and my new 99 gt. We are both going very diff directions. The 97 owner doesnt have his car back yet, hes hoping to see it in the moring tomorrow. Ivehad mine for a week or so, but sent it back for some additional tuning and to install alot of parts. Ill have it back on monday. But My stock boost is 7psi, and the "experts" all tell me a different boost to not exceed. But the boost level makes no matter to me, Its the HP, and TQ numbers Im watching. Depending on HP i may go as high as 14psi, but it depends on what it dynos this weekend. But my mods going on before may are the rotating assembly, bullit style intake, and tranny work. Other than that my car runs fine. But how much boost you run depends on what turbo mostly Im sure. If that guy who said he runs 18 psi has a civic type small ass turbo, its possible, cause he may have 400HP at 18 psi with a turbo like that, that is only capable of 250 hp at the most. but who knows.

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post #28 of 51 Old 04-25-2003, 07:48 PM
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I wouldn't exceed 10psi with your 99. If the tune is correct, you'll be fine, but the rods simply cannot handle it for extended periods of time.

Honestly, I would stay with the 7psi and enjoy it until you can build a bottom end.

Matt, my car could very easily make a 1000 mile trip without issue. The fact that A) IT'S BEEN WINTER! and B)I've been putting in a suspension would be the main reason why I have not been out more. My car doesn't see rain - let alone snow. I have the luxury to be able to make that choice.

Fact is there are more TP cars out there than the other brands. Are some having some issues? Sure. Are there things I would change on the kit? Absolutely. But I'm a picky SOB to please. To date, one of the few things that haven't needed modification to fit are my Team Breed valve covers....and even they hit the wastegate tube because the turbo kit just doesn't provide enough clearance. The Maximum suspension was close to being acceptable....clearancing it for the turbo aside, I don't like how they make (want) you bend the brake lines on the drivers side. We chose to hack a chunk of the kmember.

But I agree, there is no reason that a company cannot make a fortune in this market if they play their cards correctly....a conversation I have had repeatedly with Brad (including sending tubes out to be bent).....he chooses to only listen to a part of what I have to say

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post #29 of 51 Old 04-25-2003, 11:23 PM
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Hmm, there is only two vehicles with t he 4.6 Its Kit, and the jury is still out I guess. .
I do not care if there is 200 kits out there, there are still design aspects of the kit I do not care for. Such as the "triming" of the stock k-member to allow the 2.5" downpipe to fit, I heard the amount to trim was like 4 or 6 inches and did not appear to be the most structurally sound of things to do. The lack of a catch tank on the oil return and a pump to get that back into the system. The 3-bolt flanges on the headers, something older turbo kit companies have dropped in the past due to problems. I do like those headers, they damn near look like a set of Kook's built headers to me, is ITS getting Kook's to do headers like TDC was when they were around?

I'd like to see how it reacts with a bigger turbo on there, then you need a aftermarket K-member for the required 3" downpipe and then the oil return method I severly question if at that point.

A T62-1 turbo is going to make good power even on a log style header, so I think the power potential is definately there with any kit.

If the price is right it will appeal to a good sized market much like the ITS Fox kits do, lets just hope complaints about shipping times do not exist in those cases like they were on the Fox kits recently on turbomustangs.com

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snipe, im not sure where you are getting all your info from. I have not spoken with you, and I know the only other modular car with the ITS kit on hasnt spoken with you. SO im not really sure if your getting it all from carson or what.

The headers I have are a replica of MY TDC headers. SO yea, similar, but shortened a bit a believe.

and Im unsure how you saw what the kits look like since Im the only one driving a modular i.t.s. kit, the other car hasnt returned to its owner yet.

other than that I know that you know your **** quite well, but how you think you know everything about a kit only a handful of people in dayton, and detroit have seen? im unsure?

On the other hand, those who have seen it, ordered one on the spot, including head r&d/head tuner for Pro-m, mr canadian himself, Scott beer ordered one on the spot. Oh well, we'll see how it holds up at this years ford events.

oh and shipping with me was great, since I dropped my car off in ohio to have the kit installed there at I.t.s.

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post #31 of 51 Old 04-26-2003, 05:23 AM
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The biggest reason i think most of these guys have problems with business is because they are not business men to start with. They are mechanics. Businessmen dont know the first thing about turbo kits and mechanics dont know a whole lot about the business aspect of the marketing of the product, Or at least as much as they could.

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post #32 of 51 Old 04-26-2003, 07:19 AM
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Viperkiller - Carson and Snipe talk regularly. The pictures of the ITS kit have been on turbomustangs.com since before they were on the car, which were posted by Snipe at the request of Carson There was also a pic of the kit installed.

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post #33 of 51 Old 04-26-2003, 08:40 AM
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Yes, I talked to Carson a good bit, seems like a great guy to do business with. That is also correct he asked me to post the pictures and he described his reasonings for design aspects of the kit when he and I talked about it. I also talked to someone who had a long talk with Cerra Racing, I think it was Mike(?) from Cerra but I might have that name way off. Like I said it was just things in my opinion that I do not really care for. I did try to say in the same "breath of air" I think it will make power just fine and function just fine as it is designed, it is just the upgrading aspect that I think might have some limitations without doing the suspension mod and probably mods to the oil return method. I know a great deal about the oil return methods on low mount turbos because I did a enormous amount of research on it when I was going to low mount turbos on my car.

So I would think based on those things I am "allowed" to express my opinions on the kit. After all they are just that, opinions.

Since Kooks made headers for TDC then that explains why those weld qualities looked so familar. I can not wait to see how the weld qualities ccompare on the in house built ones and guess I will see in upcoming weeks/months since someone here in town has been patiently waiting on his kit.

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post #34 of 51 Old 04-26-2003, 11:54 AM
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i posted the 4.6 its kit pics first...snipe double posted and didn't know it
this is the thread i made...had one other pic of uncoated headers but just posted the shiny one in this particular thread http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...hlight=its+kit

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post #35 of 51 Old 04-26-2003, 12:45 PM
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ohhh, so the pics you saw must have been of either my car or rene's then. I was just wondering, its no big deal.

and speaking of cerra racing, and Mike cerra, my car is there right now getting some much needed upgrades,and things of that nature.

what did you talk to cerra about, the its kit, or one of theyre kits?

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