Projected turbo build, what do you guys think? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-02-2019, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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How’s it going everyone, hp-j here, looking forward to some good advice/opinions/wisdom on what I’m trying to accomplish, so on to it:
•The car - 1990 lx 5.0 5spd hatch
•What’s done to it as of now - engine bored to 306, e303 cam, intake, header, off-road exhaust, fpr, walbro 255lph, 3.55 gears, smog and egr deleted, subframe connectors, tubular lower control arms, adjustable uppers, poly upper axle bushings, solid trans mount, aluminum radiator, tokico shocks.
•Problems the car has currently:
Engine burns oil, valve train seems noisy, transmission is noisy 1st-3rd and grinds 4th, and car just doesn’t feel as fast as it should be(not my first foxbody)
•my plans: pull the engine and trans, rebuild both myself, I plan on doing the trick flow valve spring upgrade kit for stock iron heads, hardened push rods and 1.7 crane roller rockers off a cobra(not sure if I need valve cover spacers for those?), I’m going to keep my e303, for the block I’m hoping it’s fine and I don’t even have to pull the pistons, put new acl bearings and arp everything, im talking about rod/main bolts, intake manifold bolts, header bolts, head studs, flywheel/clutch bolts, crank pulley bolt, ect. Will get new ford performance high flow oil pump and water pump, all oem gaskets and seals, rebuilt t5 with an upgraded cluster plate I think it’s called, I have a king cobra clutch hopefully it looks good, I can just resurface the flywheel and reuse the clutch for now, I also plan on rebuilding my rear end and keeping the 3.55’s(should I upgrade my axle shafts for 450-500whp?)
•the turbo kit: I plan on going cxracing twin turbo manifolds with down pipes and intercooler, tial waste gates and bov, cheap eBay gt35r’s for now, and I plan on welding up my own intercooler piping
•fuel: I’m hoping a bigger maf housing with a maf calibrated to 42lb injectors, 42lb injectors , my walbro 255lph, and some newer mustang fuel rails will be enough fuel to support over 400whp safely(someone please chime in on this if I’m mistaken)
•tuning: do I get my 9al chipped and get tuned that way? Or do I have to get a fancy ecu? Remember I’m trying to keep this as cheap as possible but as right as possible first!

Sorry for the novel, just want to measure 4 times and cut once you know, I plan on converting rear disc(I want to stay 4lug) for better braking, I hope I can afford to get a Manuel steering rack so I can eliminate my leaky power steering pump, I’m keeping ac and heater, it’s a street car first, and real street car not no street outlaws ####, just because it’s regustered and insured don’t make it s st car!! Ac, full interior, and being able to drive it every single day anywhere any time and pump at most regular gas stations(the closest gas station to my house sells e85 and 93) that’s a st car!!

Lmk if I’m missing anything, opinions, wisdom, experience with your setups that worked, again I’ll be happy with 400whp but would be nice to make 500.

Hp-j

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post #2 of 19 Old 01-02-2019, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Also, should I get rocker stud girdles and a block girdle? I read one company say it makes the factory 302 good for 650hp!!!!!! I’ve read allot of guys they don’t do nothing, other guys swear by it , please lmk what you guys thinks

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post #3 of 19 Old 01-02-2019, 03:59 PM
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On the shortblock. Don’t waste your $ on much there. I wouldn’t pull it apart just to put new hardware in it. One of my old setups was a stock 302 w/stock forged pistons. Held up fine to 15lbs boost and 565rwhp. Forget about any girdle crap. Again, don’t waste your time and $$. Definitely throw some 31 spline axles in if you’re rebuilding the rear ens anyways. Also put a new Ford 31 spline trac lock in there. Stock fuel rails will support that power level, no problem. Might want 60lb injectors. Leave the stock ecu alone and put a chip on it with a professional custom dyno tune. Also, start saving up for a TKO or a built T-5. Stock t-5 may not last too long.

Stock block 306, V1 T-trim, AFM B-451 cam, TFS Twisted Wedge, Holley Systemax, A1000, Snow Meth, TKO 600, Team Z, Strange, MM, Lakewood and Moser helps me go forward fast.
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post #4 of 19 Old 01-02-2019, 08:40 PM
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Iíd personally ditch the e cam and go with a stock HO cam with your 1.7RR. I just pulled my e cam with my gt40 headed setup. Atomic is right about the bottom end stuff. You might be better off finding a low mileage exploder 5.0 to swap in, even swap in the P heads instead of the e7 you have now. Get the explorer, throw some studs and head gaskets in it and run it. Youíll be happy with those results.


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Stock bottom end, gt40x, Ported GT40 tubular, On3 turbo, TKO, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, etc
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post #5 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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On the shortblock. Don’t waste your $ on much there. I wouldn’t pull it apart just to put new hardware in it. One of my old setups was a stock 302 w/stock forged pistons. Held up fine to 15lbs boost and 565rwhp. Forget about any girdle crap. Again, don’t waste your time and $$. Definitely throw some 31 spline axles in if you’re rebuilding the rear ens anyways. Also put a new Ford 31 spline trac lock in there. Stock fuel rails will support that power level, no problem. Might want 60lb injectors. Leave the stock ecu alone and put a chip on it with a professional custom dyno tune. Also, start saving up for a TKO or a built T-5. Stock t-5 may not last too long.
sounds good, I really wanted to do acl rod/main bearings and new arp hardware for piece of mind, but I do want to go 351w eventually one day, my 302 blowing would be plenty reason haha I’d like to enjoy the little simple things and learn as I go though, I some times see used tko’s on Craigslist, I may try to pick one up one day, although like anyone else probably I really want a t56 magnum, we’ll see as time progress’s and what I’ve got reaches it’s limits how much money I have hidden from my wife 😅



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Originally Posted by JFraser27 View Post
I’d personally ditch the e cam and go with a stock HO cam with your 1.7RR. I just pulled my e cam with my gt40 headed setup. Atomic is right about the bottom end stuff. You might be better off finding a low mileage exploder 5.0 to swap in, even swap in the P heads instead of the e7 you have now. Get the explorer, throw some studs and head gaskets in it and run it. You’ll be happy with those results.


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I found a deal on some 96 explorer gt40 3 bar heads,intake manifold, tb, and injectors, I gotta drive 3 hrs for them, I found another guy local with some cobra crane 1.7 rockers used for a real good price as well as a 75mm maf housing, I’m trying to get what I can used, about the e cam, I actually wanted to swap it for a b cam or something more aggressive sounding, I’m not to worried if it robs a couple pony’s as I can add more boost to make up for it, for me growing up in the early 90’s a camed foxbody was music, it was the best sounding car, I gotta keep that
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post #6 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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So as last comment I stated I found some 3 bar gt40 heads and intake manifold for a good price, I’m wondering if porting them will do anything? I’ve been told porting is pointless on turbo application, I don’t want to get crazy I just want to have a fun car, thanks again for the reply’s guys

Hp-j
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post #7 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 10:58 AM
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On a stock block turbo car porting any head is not worth it because you will be the danger zone for the block as is. The block will be on borrowed time so building too much extra power into it before adding boost will be inviting block failure. HOWEVER....if you want a power number...adding base hp will get you to the number you want with less boost. And there are benefits to doing that.

If you start with 225hp and add 12psi you will get roughly 410hp and more heat to deal with from compressing that charge of air. But if you start with 265 hp (a modest 40hp bump) you will get about 408 hp from just 8 psi and a bunch less heat to deal with. Something to think about.

To have 500 whp you will need about 590 at the crank. And that is pin pulled out of the grenade territory. 450 at the wheels will take about 530 at the crank. Still in a questionable power level. Fuel will matter. Tune will matter.

You will need a substantial transmission to contain this power and the car will need reinforcements to not twist its self apart. It will be so easy to pile on speed you will probably want to think about braking enhancements too.

Sadly I have lots of theory's but not enough money to test them.

As for the B303 with boost. Not ideal at all, but it does work. Friend of mine has a B303 cammed turbo boosted car. It's strong. Probably be stronger with a stock cam and 1.72 rockers.
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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On a stock block turbo car porting any head is not worth it because you will be the danger zone for the block as is. The block will be on borrowed time so building too much extra power into it before adding boost will be inviting block failure. HOWEVER....if you want a power number...adding base hp will get you to the number you want with less boost. And there are benefits to doing that.

If you start with 225hp and add 12psi you will get roughly 410hp and more heat to deal with from compressing that charge of air. But if you start with 265 hp (a modest 40hp bump) you will get about 408 hp from just 8 psi and a bunch less heat to deal with. Something to think about.

To have 500 whp you will need about 590 at the crank. And that is pin pulled out of the grenade territory. 450 at the wheels will take about 530 at the crank. Still in a questionable power level. Fuel will matter. Tune will matter.

You will need a substantial transmission to contain this power and the car will need reinforcements to not twist its self apart. It will be so easy to pile on speed you will probably want to think about braking enhancements too.

Sadly I have lots of theory's but not enough money to test them.

As for the B303 with boost. Not ideal at all, but it does work. Friend of mine has a B303 cammed turbo boosted car. It's strong. Probably be stronger with a stock cam and 1.72 rockers.
Yea I was kinda thinking about that, reason for me wanting the gt40 heads and I asked about porting, more na hp means target hp can be made with less boost like you said, about the cam I have a e303, but I’ve read that a f303 is a good turbo cam, they sound pretty sweet at idle too, I may try to source one, again I’m trying to stay cheap, so I’ll probably stick with my e303. As soon as the car is complete and running making 400whp I will start sourcing parts for future build, I would like to swap a stock block 351w with aluminum heads and all the good stuff later, and when that engine is reading I plan on finding the limits of my 302(bored to 306)

Also anyone know of a reputable tuner in south Florida that will chip my 9al and dyno tune my car? I’d like to talk to a tuner as well before I start pulling the trigger on parts
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Also, when you say reinforcements, what more should I do? I have subframe connectors, and lower torque box reinforced, I just bought the kit to reinforce the upper torque box’s, eventually I plan on caging the car, but I’m going to build it myself as I can’t find a cage I like, again before anything my car is a street car, I want access to back seats for passsengers and all that, I don’t want to tube chassis or cut up the car or nothing.
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 09:15 PM
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Just put a Turbo on the stock long block. Everyone told me, and I didn't listen.. You will make plenty of power. Scroll down and check put the Engine Master video of the stock Turbo 5.0 and be inspired.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/rots...ers-617-lb-ft/

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post #11 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 10:03 PM
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Just put a Turbo on the stock long block. Everyone told me, and I didn't listen.. You will make plenty of power. Scroll down and check put the Engine Master video of the stock Turbo 5.0 and be inspired.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/rots...ers-617-lb-ft/
The only change from stock Powerstroke was to swap a 1.00 A/R turbine housing.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-03-2019, 10:14 PM
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Don't know why the image won't post. Was at 14-15psi they said. Look at that glorious flat torque curve and ever climbing hp line.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/23ts5t1.jpg

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post #13 of 19 Old 01-04-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.P.J View Post
So as last comment I stated I found some 3 bar gt40 heads and intake manifold for a good price, Iím wondering if porting them will do anything? Iíve been told porting is pointless on turbo application, I donít want to get crazy I just want to have a fun car, thanks again for the replyís guys

Hp-j


If you have the time and want to do it yourself Iíd port them, clean them up inside and smooth out the bump in the exhaust. Thatís it. I wouldnít go too far with it but if your paying someone to do it then Iíd slap them on. Not worth spending a ton of $$ on.


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Stock bottom end, gt40x, Ported GT40 tubular, On3 turbo, TKO, 5 lug, 4 wheel disc, etc
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-04-2019, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Just put a Turbo on the stock long block. Everyone told me, and I didn't listen.. You will make plenty of power. Scroll down and check put the Engine Master video of the stock Turbo 5.0 and be inspired.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/rots...ers-617-lb-ft/
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjm73 View Post
Don't know why the image won't post. Was at 14-15psi they said. Look at that glorious flat torque curve and ever climbing hp line.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/23ts5t1.jpg

(Whistle) now that there is what I’m talking about, like I’ve stated before, I’ll be happy with 400whp, i might even go for 350 at first until I can afford a tougher trans
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-04-2019, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by H.P.J View Post
So as last comment I stated I found some 3 bar gt40 heads and intake manifold for a good price, I’m wondering if porting them will do anything? I’ve been told porting is pointless on turbo application, I don’t want to get crazy I just want to have a fun car, thanks again for the reply’s guys

Hp-j


If you have the time and want to do it yourself I’d port them, clean them up inside and smooth out the bump in the exhaust. That’s it. I wouldn’t go too far with it but if your paying someone to do it then I’d slap them on. Not worth spending a ton of $$ on.


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I definetly want to look inside the heads once I get my hands on them, what’s a good method for cleaning them at home? Degreaser and pressure cleaner? Lol or just crap load of carb cleaner? I have a dremel and am not afraid to use it haha, I did some porting on jet skis and dirt bikes when I was a teenager, my buddy would put jb weld and port into the jb weld lmao he was wild, but he was backflipping that super jet he had with factory engines, that’s plural because he would blow them every month or every other month
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-04-2019, 01:39 PM
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I have heard that oven cleaner will really clean iron parts well. I suspect really hot water and a grease fighting dish soap might work too, but they would need to be rinsed and dried immediately and probably even put straight into a very hot waiting oven to bake dry. 450+ would probably suffice.

I have also read that scrapping out/off any gunked up oil and then blasting them with a soda blasting setup will return them to looking almost like new castings. I'd like to try this one.
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-04-2019, 05:16 PM
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This is the stuff to use. Wear gloves. Don't use on aluminum cuz it will etch and turn black unless you don't mind like on a Bell Housing or something like that..

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ZEP-128-...6128/100047759
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-04-2019, 07:32 PM
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I'm going to throw these questions in here because they seem relevant and I am curious about the answers.

Let's say you are running the stock camshaft. With it you are running a turbo with a maximum boost of 15 psi, maybe less but never more. What valve spring pressures should be run? Do you need more than the stock spec (what is the stock spec anyway)? How much is too much? Seems you would want to enough to control the valves, but not so much the excessive spring rates hinder power production.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-13-2019, 09:38 AM
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With just a basic heads cam intake or stock rebuild the factory springs should be upgraded for any performance driving. If your doing any engine work for boost or stock the factory weak links should be addressed.
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