1000 RWHP Coyote or 427 Windsor? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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1000 RWHP Coyote or 427 Windsor?

I've been doing some research but couldn't find a updated discussion on this topic. Trying to get an idea on what would be more reliable for a weekend warrior that could be capable of running 8s.

The technology is on the side of the Coyote, but displacement with the 427. Trying to minimize maintenance within reason for a high hp car.

Does anyone have experience with a comparable street driven setup?

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post #2 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 04:58 PM
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No personal experience, but at that level of power it's got to be cheaper over all to go the down the Coyote path.

Coyote: rods, pistons, oil pump gears, engine management, turbos, boost to your goal.

Windsor: block, crank, rods, pistons, cam, intake, efi, turbos, boost to your goal.

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post #3 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 06:08 PM
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Coyote without hesitation.

If we're talking gen3, then it's not even open to discussion.

Variable timing multiple valves direct engine versus a sixty year old design that only gives great hp by giving up low end torque; I'll take the former and hang into gear for an extra couple thousand rpms before shifting.

I'd only take the 427 if you really want to do it as a hobby. If that's the case, then go for it and it can be a lot of fun. I was going to just get the most out of my 331 and have fun doing it, and I couldn't care less if the coyote was faster/better.

Whatever you choose, remember to have fun with it.

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post #4 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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It would be going into a SN95 car, so I would have some costs in that swap, but really either way you're talking new transmission, rear end, engine, etc. So it's a moot point.
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post #5 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 07:14 PM
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I have a 358 cid SBF based on a 8.2" deck Dart Iron Eagle block. I currently make 1,250 HP on 21 psi of boost. If I had to do it all over again, I would chose the Coyote engine hands down and twice on Sunday. At the time of my build the Coyote was not that sorted out yet. My how times have changed.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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@Saleen414 I'd be interested in hearing more about your setup. Do you drive it on the street? Why would you make the switch?
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post #7 of 16 Old 11-09-2018, 08:37 PM
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It is strictly a drag car. It could be driven on the street, but it is not built for it per se. The current combo is a 9.2:1 compression Dart Iron Eagle block 3.4" stroke, 4.090 bore engine. Callies crank, Oliver rods, JE pistons. Custom solid roller cam, Jesel belt drive, AFR 220 Renegade heads, Jesel shaft mount roller rockers, Trick Flow R lower intake with custom air/water I/C. Fast XFI engine management system, Kenne Bell 2.8L supercharger. 21 psi. Lots of high end stuff. I have $25K in the long block. That may seem extreme, but I have raced this engine for 4 years without a re-fresh. It has been bullet proof. Outside of spark plugs, oil changes and once a year valve adjustments it is trouble free. I spin this engine 8,400 rpm at times, although I usually shift around 7,800 rpm. I have no complaints with the current engine, it is a beast. But the 5.0 Coyote engine has superior heads flow wise, has higher rpm potential, is lighter and would probably make more power per psi of boost. Add in the ability to play with VCT and the power numbers would go through the roof. I could have made more power with turbos in the current set-up, but everyone does that. I have a unique build that you will not see anywhere else, which is kind of cool, but expensive. Lol. Not a smart move financially, but I always get positive comments at the track. I built the car to prove a point. Everyone said that I could not make a Kenne Bell S/C car competitive, well, maybe they are right, but I have fun with the car and surprise the hell out of a lot of people.



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1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-10-2018, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, that's quite the setup for 302 based Windsor. How much work did it take to get the Kenne Bell to work on that setup?

I'm sure that's a torque monster!
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-11-2018, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
It is strictly a drag car. It could be driven on the street, but it is not built for it per se. The current combo is a 9.2:1 compression Dart Iron Eagle block 3.4" stroke, 4.090 bore engine. Callies crank, Oliver rods, JE pistons. Custom solid roller cam, Jesel belt drive, AFR 220 Renegade heads, Jesel shaft mount roller rockers, Trick Flow R lower intake with custom air/water I/C. Fast XFI engine management system, Kenne Bell 2.8L supercharger. 21 psi. Lots of high end stuff. I have $25K in the long block. That may seem extreme, but I have raced this engine for 4 years without a re-fresh. It has been bullet proof. Outside of spark plugs, oil changes and once a year valve adjustments it is trouble free. I spin this engine 8,400 rpm at times, although I usually shift around 7,800 rpm. I have no complaints with the current engine, it is a beast. But the 5.0 Coyote engine has superior heads flow wise, has higher rpm potential, is lighter and would probably make more power per psi of boost. Add in the ability to play with VCT and the power numbers would go through the roof. I could have made more power with turbos in the current set-up, but everyone does that. I have a unique build that you will not see anywhere else, which is kind of cool, but expensive. Lol. Not a smart move financially, but I always get positive comments at the track. I built the car to prove a point. Everyone said that I could not make a Kenne Bell S/C car competitive, well, maybe they are right, but I have fun with the car and surprise the hell out of a lot of people.



nice looking engine! you said the coyote engine was lighter? that surprised me a bit as i thought they were also larger?
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-12-2018, 06:40 AM
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The Coyote is all aluminum. My Dart Iron Eagle block weighs in at around 160 lbs bare.


1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-12-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwestrum View Post
Wow, that's quite the setup for 302 based Windsor. How much work did it take to get the Kenne Bell to work on that setup?

I'm sure that's a torque monster!
There is a lot of custom work done to get the set-up the way I knew it would be most efficient. Here is a dyno pull with 18.5 psi after I/C. Dyno sheet shows 20 psi pre I/C. Not much of a "curve". It just jumps to max power/torque and stays there all the way through 8,400 rpm.



I currently run about 21 psi after I/C. Based on time slips and data logs, I make about 35 HP per psi of boost.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #12 of 16 Old 11-12-2018, 11:16 AM
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You can easily meet your goals with an EFI 347 or 363 with a good small single turbo and reasonable heads like 205's or 225's. A good custom roller cam would be better, but I've run around with an off the shelf Comp Cam XE282HR and made that much power with boost. I put 20K miles on a XE282HR.

I typically can get 12-16 MPG on the street with gasoline, but I get a lot less with E85.

My present engine is a custom solid roller 363, and my 3200 pound car can run solid high 4's with a single mid frame T4 turbo through full exhaust. It doesn't do well on dynos because of spool time but it calculates to be around 1300-1400 HP and I can drive it all around.
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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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Go for the cubic 427 Turbo set-up would be nice .Easier to meet you goals simplicity to me wins every time
.
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post #14 of 16 Old 11-14-2018, 02:24 PM
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you also gotta keep in mind that at that power level no matter what combo sooner or later things will break and you will have to work on it, and so which one is easier to work one should be also part of the equation.

for reference my setup is a dart 351 long rod w/76mm and T56
low 700s to the tires at 15# and conservative tune

'90 notch w/an "old school" cartech outlaw kit
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post #15 of 16 Old 11-17-2018, 09:02 PM
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for a street car, i think i still like the old school way. no need to buy accessories like ac and the tach and speedo work without a hassle

93 lx convrt. 5-speed, stock shortblock, afr 165s, eddy performer intake, custom cam, vortech sci.
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-18-2018, 06:46 AM
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I have had the same thought for a long time and I want to try to keep up with the times, but I have all the parts to do a good 347 so expense wise I am better off gone the 347. I think I can reach my goal just as well with the parts I have. Also as said above the whole part about working on it comes into play for sure I know my 03 cobra is no fun to work on and is not cheap. Now if I had to start all over and had to buy it all from the start there would be no real question I would do the yote. I am sure in times I will do one. but I still got all kinds of 351 stuff to do also LOL. I guess when I want to mess with a coyote I will help the son or the daughter with theirs. lol

old screen name wvstangdriver for future sales and purchases..
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