That didn't last long.. - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 08-18-2017, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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That didn't last long..

I killed it, or it died on me.. Which ever you choose, it's still DEAD.

I had some fluttering boost going on for a few days while I was playing/tuning. You can see it in the log where the Boost starts to zig zig..I was not logging when it let go unfortunately. I now assume the fluttering was poor ring seal from the Cylinder Wall flexing. I never heard any detonation, no bangs, no anything. I just started to see smoke in the rear mirror. I thought for sure it was a blown Head Gasket. But the 9333PT-1's looked great when I pulled them of to my disappointment..

I will say that the fluttering was the worst just before it finally let go.. (duh) I wonder if the broken Ring Land was Coolant that got stuck in between the Rings and broke it Hydraulically.. All the other cylinders and chambers look great.. The Cylinder Head is fine BTW..

Time for a Dart Block. I really thought this thing would last a lot longer.. I guess my combo is putting down some power because I never revved it over 5000 rpm, and only ran a max of 8-9 psi..







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post #2 of 20 Old 08-18-2017, 06:56 PM
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Absolutely sickening. I remember how it felt when mine let go exactly a year ago. Blew out a cylinder wall due to injector wiring, hydrauliced #7. I had 80 miles in it. Dust off, move on, good luck. I'll be tuning in for your new build.


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post #3 of 20 Old 08-18-2017, 07:13 PM
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Ok now I see. Talk soon

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post #4 of 20 Old 08-19-2017, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah man.. I didn't notice it right away. 'Just started to see smoke out of the left side. Got that sinking feeling like the Cops just lit me up.. Checked the oil pressure and it was steady at like 50psi on the Highway, so I thought it was a Head Gasket. I limped it home in time before the temps got to high. I was grateful that I didn't grenade the motor..

Went to start it the next day just to get the car in a good spot to work on, and it was hydrolocked.. Drained the oil, and it was full of rotten Pea Soup.. Hit the drain on the Catch Can, and couple ounces of water came out. The inside of the Valve Cover looked like they had a layer of Crisco Grease on them.. Pulled the Heads off, and seen the chunk missing on the Piston and was like F%^&.. The Piston was at the top of the stroke, but did the math on the condition of the oil, and figured the Cylinder Wall was cracked. This Motor is dead.. I had hope. LOL

It's not a total loss tho because I went into it knowing that it might die sometime, so I didn't put a lot of money into the Motor. I Ball Honed the Bores and reused everything from the last time I put it together, so I'm really only out Bearings, Rings and Gaskets.. Really, I would have ran it till it died anyways, so this is the best possible way for it to happen I think. I'm lucky that I never got stranded on the side of the road, or at the track..
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-20-2017, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a few more that show the depth of the crack. It looks tin foil thin. I'm tempted to jam a screw driver in there, but I wanna' wait until I get the parts out first..





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post #6 of 20 Old 08-21-2017, 09:19 AM
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Geeze man what a let down. lol I watched your whole build and was hoping it'd be conservative and last with that twin setup. I learned about tuning the hard way as well. Lost head gaskets on a motor 3 times before I really got the hang of it. I will say with these engines you can detonate without really hearing or feeling it much, if at all. At least that's the case with a loud open downpipe setup.
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-21-2017, 10:22 AM
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Worried about detonation? Then you need a J&S system.

J&S Electronics SafeGuard Indivdual Cylinder Knock Control

Severe detonation may not be heard which is why you need electronics to listen for it. I shake my head whenever cars are tuned on pump gas w/o a knock sensor.

I have the Vampire system on my car and my tuner loved having it on the car when he was tuning it. This unit is CHEAP insurance compared to a broke motor.

ks


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post #8 of 20 Old 08-21-2017, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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I really don't think it ever detonated. It was making that zig zag boost for days. I think the coolant got in between the rings and broke that piece off the Piston at the weak point when the floodgates opened... If I butted the Rings, the wall would be scored from the ring expansion. I think my block is thin and couldn't handle the low rpm boost I was giving it. Those Turbos spool fast.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-21-2017, 02:51 PM
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Got that sinking feeling like the Cops just lit me up..
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but that statement made me chuckle. That feeling sucks...lmao

Best of luck with the rebuild!
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post #10 of 20 Old 08-21-2017, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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It is what it is..

Just made a deposit on a Dart Short Block with Woody.. Nichole said it will be good for 1200hp.. lol.. If I Detonate this Motor, it's because I ran out of Fuel Pump at 750-800hp..

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post #11 of 20 Old 08-28-2017, 02:57 PM
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I'm sure you know this but, the power isn't the most dangerous thing to a stock block. It's the tune. No stones being thrown, but it could have been detonating and lean which will certainly lead to ..............
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-11-2017, 03:11 PM
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21deg of timing at 8psi with nearly 12AFR.. I've broken a motor with less timing than that and a safer AFR. I blew head gaskets at 8psi and 19deg of timing. lol I think you were too aggressive with it. Switch to e85 and enjoy the massive tuning window.

Mine never sounded like it was detonating either. Must be very hard to detect on some engines because I never had the "marbles in a can" sound that people talk about. just gnarly power until failure.
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post #13 of 20 Old 10-15-2017, 08:08 PM
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Yup,detonated mine to 6 pistons with cracked ring lands,never really heard anything.Our cars make lots of other good noises,so maybe we miss the bad ones

Tony
New project : Dads 91 LX 351W rebuild
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post #14 of 20 Old 10-16-2017, 11:08 AM
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When i worked for schwitzer designing turbos we did a few turbo setups for ford. we went with 10 psi boost dropped the compression ratio to 7.5 to 1. Kept the rpm around 5200. This allowed the use of lower octane fuel and mot have to upgrade block crank rods etc.
We did a 460, boss302, 200 and 250 6 banger's. This was back in the late 60s at which time the 302 block was much stronger than later years.
Most everybody were i live that went turbo in their fox body's destroyed their engines none of them lowered the compression some even tried raising it.
In simple terms 10 pounds of boost is like doubling the size of and would put out the power of a stock 602cu in engine
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post #15 of 20 Old 10-16-2017, 09:41 PM
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Sucks what happened, glad you are going Dart.

Not familiar with your combo. Combo?

1982 Ford Fairmont Futura H/C/I, fuel injected and turbocharged [email protected]
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post #16 of 20 Old 10-17-2017, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightlaundry View Post
It is what it is..

Just made a deposit on a Dart Short Block with Woody.. Nichole said it will be good for 1200hp.. lol.. If I Detonate this Motor, it's because I ran out of Fuel Pump at 750-800hp..
Bud,
That better block won't prevent it from detonating it. If you plan to make any power on pump gas you NEED a knock detector system. There are numerous threads where people vented a block due to detonation and they always said that they never heard it happening. You don't need to hear it to have it cause damage and a little bit of knock can take its toll over time. Once you actually see the knock gauge light up just ONE single LED you'll be floored at how easy knock really happens and you will then appreciate having it installed.

Get a Safeguard system installed and let it help keep the motor safe.

ks


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post #17 of 20 Old 10-17-2017, 11:18 AM
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Bud,
That better block won't prevent it from detonating it. If you plan to make any power on pump gas you NEED a knock detector system. There are numerous threads where people vented a block due to detonation and they always said that they never heard it happening. You don't need to hear it to have it cause damage and a little bit of knock can take its toll over time. Once you actually see the knock gauge light up just ONE single LED you'll be floored at how easy knock really happens and you will then appreciate having it installed.

Get a Safeguard system installed and let it help keep the motor safe.

ks
Hey Kevin, did you end up trying the knock detection features of megasquirt or did you go straight to a J&S system?
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post #18 of 20 Old 10-17-2017, 11:28 AM
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Hey Kevin, did you end up trying the knock detection features of megasquirt or did you go straight to a J&S system?
I had the J&S before I installed the MS Pro and since I like how the J&S works I just left it alone. I kinda like having separate systems that are independent of each other monitoring the engine. In addition to the Safeguard I also have a Lean Protection Module monitoring the O2s in case it runs lean but still doesn't knock; ie on E85.

ks


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post #19 of 20 Old 10-17-2017, 11:32 AM
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I had the J&S before I installed the MS Pro and since I like how the J&S works I just left it alone. I kinda like having separate systems that are independent of each other monitoring the engine. In addition to the Safeguard I also have a Lean Protection Module monitoring the O2s in case it runs lean but still doesn't knock; ie on E85.

ks
Ah okay. I had considered trying the MS knock detection features but had read a LOT of mixed reviews about SBF knock detection in general so I haven't developed a gameplan as far as sensor type/location is concerned.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-17-2017, 12:57 PM
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Ah okay. I had considered trying the MS knock detection features but had read a LOT of mixed reviews about SBF knock detection in general so I haven't developed a gameplan as far as sensor type/location is concerned.
I think John at J&S really developed the perfect system in this Safeguard unit. Any questions I had he answered quickly and he has enough knowledge on all types of cars that I doubt there's anything that he hasn't seen yet. This unit isn't just a Mustang unit he has units that work on all types of vehicles. It's unfortunate that most people don't see a knock detection system as an important part of their engine build b/c there are a LOT of people with blown motors that could have prevented the catastrophe with something like this installed.

Once I got past my shock of seeing knock with only 6psi I almost got a giddy feeling KNOWING that the system was telling me that the engine was knocking and that it was being proactive and changing the timing to eliminate it.

ks
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