98 Cobra with built short block, looking for Turbo help/advice - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 08-16-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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98 Cobra with built short block, looking for Turbo help/advice

As it says in the title, I have a 98 Cobra with a built bottom end. I'm looking to throw a turbo setup on it.
I want a very streetable setup with 500rwhp. I want the power to come on down low and continue to pull.
It must be reliable, I don't want to have to take it to the shop constantly for work. I just want to get in, start the car, and drive it. Mostly just a weekend warrior, not so much of a track car.
I was looking at the Hellion single turbo kit, with an upgrade to the 67mm Precision turbo. Would this be a wise choice? Money well spent? What other suggestions do you guys have?

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post #2 of 18 Old 08-17-2017, 09:22 AM
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Are you installing it yourself? Do you already have the front suspension setup for it? The Hellion is a good kit. Good quality parts. Just make sure to take it to a reliable tuner and you will be enjoying the boost in no time.

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post #3 of 18 Old 08-17-2017, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't bought any front suspension.The Hellion kit I believe comes with anything I need.(I was under that impression when exchanging emails with Hellion)
The install and tuning would be done at a local reputable shop. (still trying to find one at the moment)There's a few withing a couple hours of me, but not sure which to go with. I can always have Pete tune it up at Performance Dyno.
If anyone has any suggestions for a shop in Southern NH/Northern MA, I'm all ears.
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-17-2017, 07:12 PM
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Got ya. Just make sure the suspension is included. If not its prob about another grand more. but yes that setup will fill the needs you've listed very well. It will also give you room to grow later on if you decide you want more.
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Just confirmed through Hellion directly, the kit comes with UPR K member, control arms, and c/c plates (already have MM plates).
Is the UPR a quality kit?
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 11:32 AM
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I put the single turbo hellion kit on my at the end of last year, granted its an 01 2v, but forged bottom. i bought the basic complete kit with no upgrades as at the time i had no idea what difference any of the stuff made. doing it over again i would have gone with a ceramic bb upgrade, but kept the same size turbo. out of the gate it was about 8lbs boost and started pulling in the mid 3k range. adding a manual boost controller seems to have dropped it to about 32-3300 rpm. i ran the hellion provided tune up until about 2 mos ago. I was chasing some random issues where the vehicle would conk out if you were hard in the throttle and just pushed in the clutch to coast, if you let it decelerate for a second or two before pushing in the clutch it would be fine. also had some issues where when cold it would take a couple seconds to start, warm- it started immediately. Had some bucking/surging on the 1-2, 2-3 shift on occasion as well under normal acceleration. Anyway, i took the car to the tuner. he opened the hood, wrote some stuff down then asked me what issues i had with the car. I told him, he showed me his paper which was basically verbatim. Primary issue is the distance from the turbo to the maf, on my car it was less than a foot, coming out of hard throttle on boost would cause the air to bounce and be metered multiple times and create the stalling issue. the maf was disconnected, slot style installed near the IC, recirculation valve was changed out for a BOV. Night and day difference on drive ability, no sign the turbo is even there until you put your foot in it.

power-wise on 14.3# boost- most i can put down without changing spring, it did 501rwhp and 579 torque. That to me is about perfect, the car hooks every gear on 305 continentals and pulls like a freight train in 3rd and 4th. tuner seems to think it was only about 370rwhp on 8#'s, i dont buy that as i had walked a 16 geared and dyno tuned 5.0 from 70-120 like was running on 7 cylinders. car was also 308/315 on motor before, 8#'s felt like a lot more than 60hp.

the other thing to look at is caster camber plates.. mine came with the UPR 3 bolt plates. I paid out the ass, 3hrs labor and 5 hours of me sitting there to have it aligned with the camber slightly out but at max only for it to drop camber on the psr side a week later. i switched to the MM 4 bolts, 20 minute alignment with camber adjustment to spare on both sides.

also consider struts and check the spring rate on the coilovers it comes with.. i had tokico blues on the front of mine, road like a skate board with the upr k member. swapped to bilstein HD's, much better.

'01 Hellion'd single turbo 2v
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Wow great post. Thanks for all the info!
I plan on going with a 67mm tuner kit(I believe you must have a 61) and shooting to hit 500 on 10#. I have a great shop that can tune it and they are within an hour of me.

Has the car been reliable for the year you have had it on?
I currently have the MM plates on my car already. You say the Tokico blues were harsh, but wouldn't that be down to the spring rate? They have several rates/heights to choose from on the Lethal Perf site. What spring rate did you go with?

What's your opinion on the UPR K? Does it handle any better? Worse? Is it holding up? How many miles on your Hellion kit/K member?
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post #8 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 05:24 PM
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Handling seems to be the same with the k member, though my car being a convertible i had to lose the cross brace underneath and i also removed my strut tower bar to help get rid of some cowl shake. springs are the 12" 250# upr's that came with the kit, I'm told by many those are too soft, though i cannot imagine how a 300+ would ride, i have eibach pro springs in tokico's in the rear still. my car has always been a good handler with good tracking/turn in / etc. i would say with the current alignment the steering is a bit more responsive as well.

I may be completely wrong here, and feel free to slap me if i am, but i was under the impression that 10#'s on a 61mm would put down the same power as 10#'s on a 90mm? the smaller turbo just spools quicker and has lower max hp limit.

So my car is a garage queen, owned it since new, only 51k miles on it. i have probably 1800 miles on the turbo / forged bottom end install. about 3-400 miles total on the 14# tune. the car has done well, i ran into some issues with the A/C dumping freon twice. once was a loose hose at the compressor, second time was a line that came into contact with the exhaust piping and burned a pin hole in it. that has since been replaced and properly shielded. just a few weeks ago i drove it to work (84 miles each way), i made a hit on the hwy about 18 miles from my house, 65 - 135 pull up a slight hill, about 11 seconds altogether, all seemed fine. top down the whole way. pull into work, put the top up, still no issues. about 90 minutes later i went to make a run to the post office and bank, my warehouse guy was in the parking lot, he shot me a txt a few minutes later and said the car was tapping from the time i started it until i was out of site. ironically i stopped and got gas about 20 minutes later, as i was pulling out of the station i blew the fuel rail off of an injector, got it back to work, let it cool, re-seated it, (ordered retaining clips that night) rinsed the motor off and started it up. the tapping was loud and clear when the motor was revved, coming from the front psgr side head (MHS stage 2 heads). sometimes it would do it at idle, sometimes it wouldn't. the tempo increased with the rpm's and got a bit louder though the tone did not change. no coolant or gas in the oil, no oil in the coolant, no loss of power, no smoke. made sure all the spark plugs were tight and babied it home. dropped it off at the shop the next morning. my first thoughts was oil- i put 10w30 in the car per hellion's recommendation. a few of my customers that deal in mod motors said that is a big no-no due to clearance issues and lash adjusters, wish i would have asked that earlier... anyway, shop that built the motor pulled the valve cover and replaced the lash adjusters as they assumed that was the problem as well, and one did seem to fight a bit when compressing it, put 5w20 back in it, fired it up and the tapping is still there. i have not heard back from them since, we talked about worse case scenarios, i.e. spun bearing, broken ring, valve seat or guide etc. and none of the symptoms really match those problems. so that is where I'm at now. we don't think there is anything majorly wrong at this point and some of these cars were notorious for a tapping noise mystery that could never be solved, i hope i am not one of them..

'01 Hellion'd single turbo 2v
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 05:31 PM
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something else to keep in mind is your gear- i had a 3.73 in mine originally as that is what worked with my former set up. going back to the factory cams and adding the turbo first gear would not build any boost, second gear would not see it until mid 4k's, the rest of the gears were great. at 65mph i could hit it in 4th and it would pull like crazy to 120+. going back to the 3.27, 1st gear will start building around 5k rpm's and will hit about 5-6#'s which is great for traction purposes as when the tires start to chirp its time to shift anyway. if i stay in it until 6100 i can see about 8 pounds (i don't rev the motor past 1300 launching on the street), 2nd gear hits around 3300 like it should and will see full boost.

'01 Hellion'd single turbo 2v
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Now you are really freaking me out. I had my heads done at MHS as well.

I currently run 4.30s out back, and was considering going to a 3.55 or 3.73.

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post #11 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 05:43 PM
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i only mention that so one does not think it is related to the ford issue where they were blowing the plugs out of the heads. the mhs heads i had were already provisioned with the fix, i just made sure one wasn't backing out. my heads were reworked when the turbo was installed. the whole reason i built the motor and turbo'd it was i drove it to lunch one day, shifted into 2nd gear around 10 mph and heard two clanks and the motor shut off. i snapped the crankshaft key causing it to spin timing on the driver side, crushing the valves and making some nice little indentions on two of the pistons. i was tired of the way the car drove and acted with the hitech stage 2 cams in it, so it was between turbo or 5.0 big bore kit, coyote swap was out of the budget. didn't want the low rpm loss of power that comes with the needed intake plenum (victor JR or the other one ) to actually get that setup to make power, and even then it was only going to be good for another 50 or so HP, so for the money i decided on the turbo route. This issue could be any number of things, related to the turbo or not, could have just been a bad part. i will update for sure once i find out what the resolution is

i do not regret going with a turbo one bit.. next car will get one too
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'01 Hellion'd single turbo 2v
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post #12 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 05:47 PM
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i think you have a 5spd now, so i would say try the turbo first and go from there, if you are disappointed then i would think 3.55 since you can spin to a higher rpm. i almost wonder if i should have gone 3.08 instead of 3.27, only for getting it to 60 quicker.

'01 Hellion'd single turbo 2v
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-18-2017, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, rebuilt T45.
Thanks for all the insight guys, it's a big help. Would like to hear from a 4v guy too.

I'll have to do some research for gear ratio. NA, 4.30s were a no brainier for me.
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post #14 of 18 Old 08-20-2017, 04:32 AM
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4V C heads. On3 upgraded MP Turbo 63AR/70MM, dual 38mm turbosmart wg, turbosmart raceport bov. 10.67:1, 4.75 MMR crank,frpp 52# injectors & Snow stg2 meth. Start up tune netted 450/450 on 6# @ 12.5 AFR WOT. Power comes in early and power is very smooth and predictable all the way up to 6500. Going to work my way up to 500rwhp and stop there. Won't have another Dyno slot for a few weeks, will try to update when done tuning. Very happy with On3, also UPR K. Added a MM stb and going to add a stiffler's bottom brace as you can feel the flex w/UPR, but have over 10k miles on the UPR with no issues. PM me if you want more details on build.

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98 Vert: C Heads, Teksid, Coyote crank=4.75L, Manley rods, Custom DSS Pistons (11:1), 98 Intake cams, 01 Cobra intake+1/2" spacer, On3 FF+MP 70mm .63 AR, Snow Stage 2, J&S Vampire, Bilstein C/O fronts, UPR K W/MM Arms, 04 Cobra Rack, 98 T45+Tri-ax, 04 IRS+MM+FTBR, 3.55 Yukon, 2000 R Brembos+factory rears, Goodridge lines, 18x9.5 '09 GT500s, 6pt MM Bar. Thanks: My Mustang Gal, my Boys, NASVT, The Car Guy/Chandler Automotive Machine Services in Chandler AZ and my Buds
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-20-2017, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MVK13 View Post
4V C heads. On3 upgraded MP Turbo 63AR/70MM, dual 38mm turbosmart wg, turbosmart raceport bov. 10.67:1, 4.75 MMR crank,frpp 52# injectors & Snow stg2 meth. Start up tune netted 450/450 on 6# @ 12.5 AFR WOT. Power comes in early and power is very smooth and predictable all the way up to 6500. Going to work my way up to 500rwhp and stop there. Won't have another Dyno slot for a few weeks, will try to update when done tuning. Very happy with On3, also UPR K. Added a MM stb and going to add a stiffler's bottom brace as you can feel the flex w/UPR, but have over 10k miles on the UPR with no issues. PM me if you want more details on build.

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Forgot, irs with 3.55

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98 Vert: C Heads, Teksid, Coyote crank=4.75L, Manley rods, Custom DSS Pistons (11:1), 98 Intake cams, 01 Cobra intake+1/2" spacer, On3 FF+MP 70mm .63 AR, Snow Stage 2, J&S Vampire, Bilstein C/O fronts, UPR K W/MM Arms, 04 Cobra Rack, 98 T45+Tri-ax, 04 IRS+MM+FTBR, 3.55 Yukon, 2000 R Brembos+factory rears, Goodridge lines, 18x9.5 '09 GT500s, 6pt MM Bar. Thanks: My Mustang Gal, my Boys, NASVT, The Car Guy/Chandler Automotive Machine Services in Chandler AZ and my Buds
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post #16 of 18 Old 08-20-2017, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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How long have you had the On3 kit? I've read quite a few horror stories, and not too many happy ones when it comes to the On3 kit. Has the kit improved recently?
Most things I've read were about bad fitting with the pipes. Nothing too major.. any big obstacles with your build?
Thanks for the info.
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post #17 of 18 Old 08-30-2017, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Anyone else with an On 3 kit who would care to chime in?
How about any 4V guys with the newer forward facing kit?
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post #18 of 18 Old 09-09-2017, 05:04 AM
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Sorry, been busy. My kit is the FF. It has about 6k miles on it now. No fitment issues whatsoever. No header cracks, but I am running stage 8 locking header bolts. Biggest issue was relocating the 3 core aluminum radiator into the radiator support to clear the dual 12" fans. I haven't had to deal with the stock radiator & fan combo, so someone else please chime in on that?

I've been playing with the tune and am pretty sure that it's pretty close to the 500/500 that I wanted and that's leaving power on the table. So, yes every time I get on the freeway I get a fat ear to ear grin and don't miss my pro charger at all. Love the wg sound when I'm messing around and shredding the tires. My buddy with a GT350 loved my sleeper when we swapped for a bit on the way to Vegas. You will love it, but get it tuned by someone that understands turbos. Meth kit is worth a lot in my book too. Good luck!

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98 Vert: C Heads, Teksid, Coyote crank=4.75L, Manley rods, Custom DSS Pistons (11:1), 98 Intake cams, 01 Cobra intake+1/2" spacer, On3 FF+MP 70mm .63 AR, Snow Stage 2, J&S Vampire, Bilstein C/O fronts, UPR K W/MM Arms, 04 Cobra Rack, 98 T45+Tri-ax, 04 IRS+MM+FTBR, 3.55 Yukon, 2000 R Brembos+factory rears, Goodridge lines, 18x9.5 '09 GT500s, 6pt MM Bar. Thanks: My Mustang Gal, my Boys, NASVT, The Car Guy/Chandler Automotive Machine Services in Chandler AZ and my Buds
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