Going Incon with my 95 331 "Daily Driver" - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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  • 1 Post By KEVIN$
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post #1 of 34 Old 08-06-2017, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Going Incon with my 95 331 "Daily Driver"

Hi, I guess I'm the new guy here. My incon kit is "in the mail" from a corral seller.


My 331 is 10:1.... if the incon is only putting out 6 lbs of intercooled boost, should I be ok?

What can I expect in terms of tuning expenses. The main thing I'm after is driveability, but the thought of 600 rwtq brings a nice little grin to my existence.

1. Should I stick with my CARB-approved Magnaflow catted X or go back to the stock H?

2. The stock radiator.... comments?

3. Stock Cobra flywheel or lighter weight? Meh?

4. Are all tunes/ chips created equal? Are there certain types of tunes to seek and others to avoid?


I don't want to agree to a $2k tune that they guy assures me will make all my dreams come true, then when the thing is bogging and backfiring out of the parking lot the guy only then declares that 95 computers are impossible to tune. (meaning he doesn't know how to)

Can anyone recommend an excellent tuning shop in SoCal?


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post #2 of 34 Old 08-06-2017, 04:57 PM
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That's pretty high compression for a turbo setup, you plan on running race gas?

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post #3 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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That's pretty high compression for a turbo setup, you plan on running race gas?
LOL, exactly what I was thinking.

A couple years ago I asked the same question about adding a blower and the consensus was that 6 lbs should be manageable with a tune and not expecting optimal hp.

If the answer is "hell no, don't even try it" then I need to start saving my lunch money for lower compression slugs... and h-beams.... I guess o-ringed gaskets too.

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post #4 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 05:18 AM
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I'd start saving money then. My personal opinion is that if I only wanted to run 6lbs, why spent a couple thousand on a kit with all the headaches of installand tuning?
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post #5 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 08:45 AM
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...or just run E85.

ks
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post #6 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 10:43 AM
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...or just run E85.

ks
^ or race fuel is really just a bandaid for the underlying problem of too high compression to run serious boost. Seems like the build wasn't intended for boost from the get go.
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post #7 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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^ or race fuel is really just a bandaid for the underlying problem of too high compression to run serious boost. Seems like the build wasn't intended for boost from the get go.
Well, yes, you're correct. I set up the car for 325 or so rwhp... something I could drive to work with no intention of squeezing every last ft lb out of the block. The rotating assembly, the cooling, and the suspension were set up with that in mind.

But time marches on, kids go off to college and graduate, and daily drivers become Friday cars. My simple question is "if I slap an incon kit on this high compression motor, can it be tuned to run without detonating?"

E85 is a helpful suggestion. It is a viable option.

Observing that the motor wasn't originally intended for boost is just restating the original question.

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post #8 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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...or just run E85.

ks
Thanks, that's a good option.

My original concern is that when I take the car in for a tune, and the shop assures me that they can make a safe tune on 91 octane, that when I pick up the car it will have poor driveability and performance. E85 is a way around that.

IIRC mileage suffers by about 20%, but that's cheaper than head gaskets.

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post #9 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 12:58 PM
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Lots of LS motors running around with turbos and at what compression? The margin of error becomes smaller on your tune. E85 looks too be a good option, if the rest of your fuel system is up to par. A fuel system that can provide enough gas for a 1000hp motor is only good for about 750ish on E85.

For everything that is worthwhile, there is a counterfeit.
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post #10 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 01:22 PM
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What is you bottom end capable of handling? Run e85 with boost, absolutely, but if the bottom end won't hold out after much boost, I would be wise to go ahead with dish pistons and forged bottom end.

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post #11 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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What is you bottom end capable of handling? Run e85 with boost, absolutely, but if the bottom end won't hold out after much boost, I would be wise to go ahead with dish pistons and forged bottom end.
The shortblock includes a forged crank, but the rest is i-beams and cast pistons.

Is there any way to guess how much lower the compression could be with dished pistons? I think the chamber size is 60 cc.

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post #12 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 08:05 PM
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A forged crank, with cast pistons, in a stock block? Regardless of what the crank, can handle, it's still a stock block with cast pistons.

For everything that is worthwhile, there is a counterfeit.
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post #13 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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A forged crank, with cast pistons, in a stock block? Regardless of what the crank, can handle, it's still a stock block with cast pistons.
I'd be in better shape with a stock crank since the incon is set up for that.

Anyway, I'm just trying to come up with a plan for how to integrate the TT with what I have right now. The long term plan will include a legit shortblock. But that's years from now.

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post #14 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 09:32 PM
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The good thing about e85 in the West coast is that the mixture is a lot more consistent than what we have here on the east coast. Summer blend winter blend extreme variations in temperature. I swear the weather on long island is as bipolar as the people.
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post #15 of 34 Old 08-07-2017, 10:06 PM
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I'd be in better shape with a stock crank since the incon is set up for that.

Anyway, I'm just trying to come up with a plan for how to integrate the TT with what I have right now. The long term plan will include a legit shortblock. But that's years from now.
Maybe I've missed something, what's the crankshaft quality have to do with the fittament of the incon kit? If you really want a stock crankshaft I have a fresh one in the bag, I'll trade you.

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post #16 of 34 Old 08-08-2017, 12:16 AM
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Water/meth injection is an option to raise boost.

I'm at about 9.6:1 compression, and I can tell you the warning about the tight tuning window is absolutely correct.
Be extremely careful with tuning. Even what doesn't seem like much timing at 6lbs boost on 91 octane will have you replacing head gaskets.

If you can build a fuel system for e85 and have it readily available, that's the road id go down if it were mine. Be careful on timing with that stock block also. You are easily going to be one small error way from breaking a lot of stuff. Keep us updated.

stock block 347 w Bullet Forged flat top pistons, TW170 p&p heads, comp 35-775-8 cam, approx 9.6:1 compression, 72mm rear mount turbo, injector clinic 650h injectors, CircleD 2800 stall converter, Lentech valve body.
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post #17 of 34 Old 08-08-2017, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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... starting to think I should just save my lunch money and store the TT until I can install some h-beams and dished pistons, and have a pro tune the thing.


Is 9:1 ok? The 95 cobras were 9:1 IIRC.
Is a special head gasket called for?
Is there a better bumpstick?

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post #18 of 34 Old 08-09-2017, 04:14 AM
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I think thats the best way to go considering if you mechanically torch this engine, there is a fair chance you'd torch the new turbo kit as well...9-1 should be fine, a custom cam ground for the application would be advised. Even then, if you wanted to run e85 rather than pump gas, you can always turn up the boost.
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post #19 of 34 Old 08-09-2017, 07:48 AM
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i run 10.4 to 1 compression with a turbo, you will be fine and i run much moire boost than 6-7 on pump gas. you can call me or pm me for details. 4072599010. as far as tuning before i would spend over $1.000.00 for a tune i would go to a stand alone system like Holley HP or MS3, i personally run the Holley Hp on my car and it is very user friendly and is as close to plug and play as you will get with a modern ecu, maybe half a dozen wire or so and you are up and driving.
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post #20 of 34 Old 08-11-2017, 01:21 AM
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The "low compression with boost" mentality is antiquated thinking. Tuned properly, you can run well more than 6 psi. As mentioned, I'd lean towards a stand alone engine management system for maximum control. I, also, am going to run the Holley HP. Currently running Megasquirt on my NA setup, but going 331 turbo and stepping the game up significantly. Think of it this way, the better your engine runs NA, the more power you'll make with less boost.
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post #21 of 34 Old 08-11-2017, 04:10 AM
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As antiquated as it may seem, 11 to 1 compression with the op's current engine isn't going to last very long under 15psi. I agree that a good n/a engine will make a good boost engine, but that only goes so far.
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post #22 of 34 Old 08-12-2017, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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As antiquated as it may seem, 11 to 1 compression with the op's current engine isn't going to last very long under 15psi. I agree that a good n/a engine will make a good boost engine, but that only goes so far.
LOL, no way in heck would I go with anything more than 6.0000 lbs of boost. I'll turn it down if I can. At least until I get the dart big bore, h-beams and forged slugs.

I'll be contacting you guys about stand alone controllers. I had a MQH for a couple years but I never got into tuning. I really just want to buy a tune from somebody who knows what he's doing... which might be problematic in Socal. (They're all experts and friendly when they're pushing a contract at you, then when you pick up the car that isn't running right, it's your fault: "Mustangs can't be tuned"

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post #23 of 34 Old 08-15-2017, 02:29 AM
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11 or 10:1? I read 10. Easily tunable with boost. I'm also in SoCal, lots of tuners around. I've dealt with a few. I can tell you who absolutely NOT to go to. As for who, well, best to talk to different guys and get an idea for yourself. I had my truck tuned twice. First time, 417/487, but had lots of detonation on the top end due to too much timing. Second time, 394/486. Ok, lost a little HP and 1 TQ, but also running 8* less timing. No more detonation and runs just as strong as before. Either way, it's more power than realistically usable on the street since it's a daily driver. Contact me and we can discuss tuners in SoCal.
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post #24 of 34 Old 08-16-2017, 08:50 PM
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I agree with the above. I have a 10.1 running about 10lbs tuned with a megasquirt 2. Been running since 2014 and only blew 1 set of head gaskets so far. 6lbs should not hurt your engine.

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post #25 of 34 Old 08-17-2017, 11:06 AM
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Many apologies ladies and gentlemen, I thought I read 11.0-1, and in fact it is 10-1 compression. I retract all my previous statements based on that fact, I was never questioned or corrected up to that point and therefore re-read the whole post. Again, I am sorry for my misinformation based on what I THOUGHT I read!
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post #26 of 34 Old 08-24-2017, 08:48 PM
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Cast pistons and boost dont mix well, at least not for long.

Two turbos and a carb...
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post #27 of 34 Old 08-25-2017, 10:03 AM
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If it were me, I'd install the kit, and make sure I have the lightest spring possible in the waste gate. Install wideband o2 for tuning.
Then I could start learning the tuning software\under just a couple pounds boost. Then add Bigger injectors, and tune. Rebuild motor with expensive parts, up boost, tune, and hang on to your shorts.

This, of course, is if you want to do your own tuning. The tuning is a bit of a steep learning curve, but more rewarding and you should end up with a more daily driver type car.

If your not going your own tuning, I'd still install the kit first and try to find a extremely light spring for the waste gate. It's nice if you have the time to go one step at a time working out the bugs. Very easy to trouble shoot. I'm sure even with a pre-built system there will be bugs and unforeseen things that will happen.

My motor is a detonating machine, so I installed a J&S knock sensor and it was probably just as valuable as a tuning tool as the Wide band. It sounds expensive, but down time of a daily driver as your replacing head gaskets, collapsed pistons, etc. carries a huge cost. You are walking a tight rope on timing/boost for max efficiency, even with a built motor.

When you start putting the build, please do a build thread. I'm always interested in others experiences. My experiences are just what I have found out the hard way in my application. I'm hoping that its a very smooth build and easy tuning for you.

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post #28 of 34 Old 08-26-2017, 10:16 PM
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A forged crank, with cast pistons, in a stock block? Regardless of what the crank, can handle, it's still a stock block with cast pistons.
This quote is a word to the wise.The stock block is the weakest link.The cast pistons will only go so far.I would buy some new low comp forged pistons to drop the compression.Opening up the tuning window will allow you to have more useful boost with out having to resort to running E85 n such.A 331 with a good set of heads can bust 600 RWHP on pump gas with a good tune @10 LBS boost!I did mention you have a STOCK block did I?That Incon System can certainly make some serious steam.
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post #29 of 34 Old 09-13-2017, 05:30 AM
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The prototype of the twin turbo kit was originally engineered by George Spears in 1990. George asked me to design a mass air converter box for the kit. He was running one mass air unit, mounted on one bank, so the box was there to double the flow then feed that to the ECU. I don't know what they did when it went into production.

At the time, I was working on the first gen version of the SafeGuard knock controller. George shipped the car to Australia, then we went to the SEMA show that year and met David Inall of DDMI. I had high hopes of supplying knock controllers to him but he said they were going to handle that on their own. George was watching the conversation from some distance. He said my face fell and he knew Dave had turned me down. I think Dave's solution was to retard timing a few degrees by resetting the distributor.
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post #30 of 34 Old 09-15-2017, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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The stock block is the weakest link.
False.

The T5 is.


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post #31 of 34 Old 09-26-2017, 03:18 AM
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[QUOTE=P63;18097041]False.

The T5 is.

[/QUOTE
Now how did I miss the T5?Incon will eat T5s all day long as long as the owner can keep feeding it T5s.
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post #32 of 34 Old 10-07-2017, 12:44 PM
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Im will speak from personal experience. I will also State all the facts with my experience. I have a 3:47 with 10.5 - 1 compression and running about 6 lb of supercharged boost. I also have a meth kit on it. I don't have any problem. I have the best of both worlds period when it's not boost, the engine is making enough horsepower and torque by itself. When I slam the gas, there is no lag it just goes. Before I had a 302 with the saying supercharger.That set up just felt sluggish. I know we talking about turbocharged and I had a supercharger. But I would not be afraid to stop a turbo charged on my car with that much compression. Just do it and have fun.
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post #33 of 34 Old 10-15-2017, 08:01 PM
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Ive seen many LS engines making lots of power with high compression and powder metal rods What im saying,put it together,take it easy,learn how to tune/drive it then build something bigger/better.Better to learn on this one,then break a "good one" learning.

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post #34 of 34 Old 10-16-2017, 04:33 AM
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LS engines have knock control.
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