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post #1 of 31 Old 01-16-2003, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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cam test

not to be one of those people, but im just curious. what does everybody think about the cam test in mm&ff?

from what everybody says when it comes to turbo cams, i would not have thought the usual split pattern would have done to well.

any thoughts?


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post #2 of 31 Old 01-20-2003, 01:54 AM
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I don't have the mag, what cams were involved in the test and what was their outputs? I had a split duration cam (favoring exhaust) that did well in my car. Never got to test it against any other cam, but the car wasn't lacking in power.
Maybe MM&FF still does have something worth reading....


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post #3 of 31 Old 01-20-2003, 12:16 PM
 
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My cam is a lot like the one that they didn't get a chance to test because of a machining problem. I'll be anxious to see how it does in a future issue.
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post #4 of 31 Old 01-20-2003, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bobo
I don't have the mag, what cams were involved in the test and what was their outputs? I had a split duration cam (favoring exhaust) that did well in my car. Never got to test it against any other cam, but the car wasn't lacking in power.
Maybe MM&FF still does have something worth reading....
i know i was actually surprized myself. they tested the stock cam vs. the XE266HR vs. a custom 216-216 cam on a 114, and the 3rd was ground wrong or something so they couldnt test it. the 266hr was tops almost across the board, which i thought was interesting because turbos are supposed to like no overlap, and the cam with the most made the most power.

it was actually a decent article. i was surprized.

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-20-2003, 07:32 PM
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I'd still like to see what an F-303 would do on that engine...

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-20-2003, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbolx
I'd still like to see what an F-303 would do on that engine...
Hey Greg have you ever dynoed your car with the stock cam to see the difference or a car with the same turbo? By the way the F-303 has .512 lift and 226 @ .050 duration. Does anyone know the LSA and overlap?

Thanks

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-21-2003, 09:45 AM
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The F-303 has a 114 degree LSA.

I never had the stock cam under this head/intake/turbo combination, only when it was a stock long block with the Incon kit a couple years ago. I'm not in a big hurry to see what the stock cam does on this setup either. I already have 400rw ft-lbs at 3000rpm, the last thing my tires need is more low end torque. It's actually far easier to drive the car both on the street and at the road course with the "softer" bottom end power of the bigger cam and short runner intake.

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-21-2003, 10:20 PM
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Where is this test ?
Is it in the february edition? the one that says KILLER 425-HP Q-SHIP ?
Cant find in there...

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post #9 of 31 Old 01-21-2003, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rotax
Where is this test ?
Is it in the february edition? the one that says KILLER 425-HP Q-SHIP ?
Cant find in there...
It is the March issue. It has a red Mach 1 on the cover and it says Mach 1 Mania!

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post #10 of 31 Old 01-22-2003, 06:44 PM
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##### march already?

Arent we just in the middle of january? is it march 2004?


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post #11 of 31 Old 01-22-2003, 11:47 PM
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Re: ##### march already?

Quote:
Originally posted by rotax
Arent we just in the middle of january? is it march 2004?
Yea it just says display until March 2003. Maybe that means it is the Feb issue. Not really sure why they do them that far in advance

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post #12 of 31 Old 01-22-2003, 11:48 PM
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Anyway did you get a copy of it yet?

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post #13 of 31 Old 01-23-2003, 01:39 AM
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NO!

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post #14 of 31 Old 02-12-2003, 01:22 PM
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I've been working with the Desktop 2000 program for my Incon 306.
I know DT2k is only as accurate as the user inputs and probably doesn't take everything into account but it seems to like 520-530 lift at the valve, lobe center of 116.5 valve overlap of 47, int duration of 271, exh duration of 289, ivo 23,ivc 68, evo 85, evc 24, ica 112.5, eca 120.5.

Does this look workable? Ed said he can build it. What do you think?
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post #15 of 31 Old 02-13-2003, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stm
I've been working with the Desktop 2000 program for my Incon 306.
I know DT2k is only as accurate as the user inputs and probably doesn't take everything into account but it seems to like 520-530 lift at the valve, lobe center of 116.5 valve overlap of 47, int duration of 271, exh duration of 289, ivo 23,ivc 68, evo 85, evc 24, ica 112.5, eca 120.5.

Does this look workable? Ed said he can build it. What do you think?
Seems way to exhaust bias to me.
Ed's doing a cam for my Incon setup. It's 12 degrees Intake bias at .050 & has -2 degrees overlap @.050. Of course, I have small heads on displacement. (GT40 irons on a 331)

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post #16 of 31 Old 02-13-2003, 10:12 AM
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Ed hasn't given me any feedback on the profile, just that he can build it. Then again I'm running the 185 TEA TW on a 306 so I have a lot more intake on a smaller motor (306). He hasn't told me what he would recomend.
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post #17 of 31 Old 02-13-2003, 06:29 PM
 
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This test is BS! The turbo engine is a 327 strocker with victor jr. heads. Do you guys think that the stock cam is restrictive on this motor? Even a split duration cam that favor the exhaust will make more power on this motor. They're always talking about the 4000-6000 rpm. Why? Turbo's shine in the lower rpm range. Dyno test are made on a engine dyno. 600 fwhp is not so impressive if you look at the combo. I saw 495 rwhp from a 302 with a stock cam wich is not far of 600 fwhp.
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post #18 of 31 Old 02-14-2003, 10:11 PM
 
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I was told by a local guy who tried a split duration cam in his t76 turbo 306 that he had trouble making boost until way up in the rpm band. he made the same boost at lower rpm with an e-cam. he talked to george at turbo tech and they said dont use the split dur. cam that favors the exhaust side. ?. i have an e-cam in my car and it will stay for now until i call spetter and get a custom grind.
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post #19 of 31 Old 02-16-2003, 01:03 AM
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ttt

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post #20 of 31 Old 02-16-2003, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
This test is BS! The turbo engine is a 327 strocker with victor jr. heads. Do you guys think that the stock cam is restrictive on this motor? Even a split duration cam that favor the exhaust will make more power on this motor. They're always talking about the 4000-6000 rpm. Why? Turbo's shine in the lower rpm range. Dyno test are made on a engine dyno. 600 fwhp is not so impressive if you look at the combo. I saw 495 rwhp from a 302 with a stock cam wich is not far of 600 fwhp.
Exactly.
Turbos dont like huge duration. Pressure in a sysytem always tries to equalize. If you hang both valves open, the pressure can go right out the intake valve slowing the compressor.
Take the Vtec garbage. They work way better with a vortec blower than a turbocharger.

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post #21 of 31 Old 02-16-2003, 01:40 PM
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Duration isnt soo bad, overlap is mostly the bad thing there.

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post #22 of 31 Old 02-16-2003, 04:46 PM
 
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You can have huge duration in turbo motors, as long as the engine needs it. Most turbo cam are split duration that favor the intake side and have small overlaps.

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post #23 of 31 Old 02-17-2003, 07:23 AM
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I just bought a set of Windsor SR heads and a "custom" cam setup. I got the numbers off of the cam, and found out that it is a Comp cams 281HR10, specs at .050:
220 duration in/ex
.512 lift both
timing @ .006
Intake: opens 35 closes 66
Exhaust: opens 75 closes 26

From everything you read this cam is not very good for a turbo, but I later found out that this cam was designed by Turbo Tech in the early to mid 90's after dyno testing. I have been told not to use it, but I'm going to try it. Who am I to argue with their experience.

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post #24 of 31 Old 02-17-2003, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo90GT
I just bought a set of Windsor SR heads and a "custom" cam setup. (SNIP) I have been told not to use it, but I'm going to try it. Who am I to argue with their experience.
BAH! Don't listen to them. Run that cam! It's very similar to my F303 (but with less duration) and I've had great results with mine as well as on several customer cars. With the shorter durations, you will just have a little better idle with less need for custom part throttle tuning to start.

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post #25 of 31 Old 02-17-2003, 02:15 PM
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yep i would run it also , i run the F cam and like it alot , like turbolx said its very similar

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post #26 of 31 Old 02-26-2003, 09:03 PM
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I'm installing an Incon 800TT kit. I have a DSS low comp. shortblock with an Anderso Ford Motorsport B-31 cam. This was a good cam when I had my S-trim blower, but is it a good turbo cam? The Specs are as listed.

Advertised Duration: Int-270 Exh:280
Duration @.050 Int:218 Exh: 228
lobe lift @ cam Int:.340 Exh:.340
Gross Valve lift (1.6) Int: .544 Exh:.544
lobe seperation (112)
cam centerline Int: 112 Exh: 112

I spoke to AFM and they indicated it will be great with a turbo! What do you guys think????????

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post #27 of 31 Old 02-28-2003, 09:57 AM
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Foraye,

Much like the cams tested in the MMFF article, yours is a blower cam, not a turbo cam. The two types of boost have different needs as far as ideal cam timing. Your cam will almost certainly make more power than the stock piece, but that doesn't make it a "good turbo cam". If you are just looking for a little more power, go ahead and run it. But if you are looking for the best transition into boost and best power across the board, you'd do better with something else.

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post #28 of 31 Old 02-28-2003, 05:26 PM
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Thanks Turbolx,

What cam would you suggest? The Crane 2030, E303, or a custom grind?

Please advise

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post #29 of 31 Old 03-01-2003, 09:53 AM
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Lightbulb

We've seen the best "tried and true" turbo cam results with either a stock cam with 1.7's, F303 with 1.6's or a custom turbo spec cam if you're looking for more than 650hp. The rest is in the tune.

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post #30 of 31 Old 03-01-2003, 01:08 PM
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I just wanted to say that I have an F cam also, and I love it. Great power everywhere, no idle issues, great gas mileage, etc, etc... no complaints.

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post #31 of 31 Old 03-06-2003, 10:04 PM
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That MMFF article was basically saying that all the old wives' tales about turbo cams are bunk. Turbo motors do make bigger power with big cams. You think the Pro guys are running small cams? I spoke with Ronnie Crawford on this, and he assures me that turbo cars have humongous cams also. Additionally, the MMFF article points out that the overlap period (where everybody gets so freaked out about) is like 1/100,000 of a second at high RPM, so the actual time for the exhaust to blow back thru the intake is virtually non-existent. If you run a big cam with a turbo, obviously it will take higher RPM to spool it up. That's why you select a higher stall converter. I have heard of turbo cars with 6000+ stall converters. Again, it's making everything work together.
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