I heard they weren't that great but! - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 06-13-2016, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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I heard they weren't that great but!

I heard that the on3 turbos weren't all that great but mine just junked out with only 9 miles on it! Yes 9mi. I'm not crying though what do you expect for a $400 turbo.

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post #2 of 28 Old 06-14-2016, 12:22 PM
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Ehh, I've seen good and I've seen bad. did you prime it with oil before firing the car? does it have adequate oil pressure and drain?

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post #3 of 28 Old 06-14-2016, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Primed it along with the engine, using the on3 supply line, 5/8 drain. Feed is at 12, drain is dead on 6 o clock. On3 said they would give me a slight discount on a new chra, which is good. I will be tearing this one down to make sure it's not an oiling issue.
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post #4 of 28 Old 06-14-2016, 06:47 PM
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No issues at all with my cBB on3 turbo. Don't think I even primed it.
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post #5 of 28 Old 06-14-2016, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Well I think I owe on3 an apology. Upon further inspection and removal of the turbo, it appears that something went through the exhaust housing. The outer 1/4 of the exhaust turbine blades are sheared off and has destroyed the housing itself. Unless the turbine wheel just self destructed something went through it. spark plugs all look good, but I won't know much until I scope the cylinders.
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post #6 of 28 Old 06-15-2016, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostup89 View Post
Well I think I owe on3 an apology. Upon further inspection and removal of the turbo, it appears that something went through the exhaust housing. The outer 1/4 of the exhaust turbine blades are sheared off and has destroyed the housing itself. Unless the turbine wheel just self destructed something went through it. spark plugs all look good, but I won't know much until I scope the cylinders.
Well I applaud you for the apology if indeed the turbo did not destruct itself. Keep on inspecting, you may find out what happened.
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post #7 of 28 Old 06-15-2016, 08:28 AM
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Yeah i figured it wasn't that major of a manufacturing defect, although I wouldn't be that surprised. their stuff isn't great but it isn't super normal for their turbos to blow that easy. as far as debris hurting the turbine wheel, did you drop a socket or something in the tube? is the flex joint in the crossover pipe still in tact? They can sometimes fail and shoot debris through the turbo.
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post #8 of 28 Old 06-15-2016, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Debris in the crossover/exhaust side or just a failed turbo would be best case scenario. A local mechanic is letting me borrow his bore scope tonight. I'm hopeful there is no internal damage. The car still ran fine although sluggish because of over fueling and only making about 1-2# of boost. I will keep everyone posted. Pics to come.
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post #9 of 28 Old 06-15-2016, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Well after a few hours with a bore scope I have found zero signs that anything passed through the engine. Everything looks like it should, valves, pistons, cylinder walls all look good. The crossover pipe, wastegate, and headers all look good.
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post #10 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 12:47 AM
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Debris in the crossover/exhaust side or just a failed turbo would be best case scenario. A local mechanic is letting me borrow his bore scope tonight. I'm hopeful there is no internal damage. The car still ran fine although sluggish because of over fueling and only making about 1-2# of boost. I will keep everyone posted. Pics to come.
how is it over fueling?


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post #11 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know the answer to that at the moment. In my last datalog it just shows it was running a little on the rich side. Just one more thing to address in the future.
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post #12 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 08:36 AM
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Normally the path from the wheel tips to the volute of the compressor is narrowed greatly (diffuser section i think) so normal sockets usually wont pass through it. the object must have been smaller than the wheel tip height for it to pass through the diffuser so that could possibly help narrow down what when through there. see image for reference.

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post #13 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 08:39 AM
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although after thousands of collisions with wheel tips, it might have been shot through there regardless of original size. look at the diffuser section of the housing and chra to see if you can find where it gauged its way through.
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post #14 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 09:35 AM
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I don't know the answer to that at the moment. In my last datalog it just shows it was running a little on the rich side. Just one more thing to address in the future.
barring a mech issue

it should change, that is why you have 02 sensors and fuel trims

If it is changing, there is an input telling it to, which is normal

If you are eagle eyeing the WB, I suggest you don't, it is normal to be high and low during transients.

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post #15 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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I think I'm guilty of this! I installed the WB to dial my fuel in. From my research, when at high RPM and under boost, and you see things going really lean on the WB, its too late. I could be wrong about that statement. Rather than me trying to describe what the housing looks like I will snap some pics tonight.
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post #16 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 03:05 PM
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Just curious, where is your O2 sensor located? Post or Pre turbo?

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post #17 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Just curious, where is your O2 sensor located? Post or Pre turbo?

ks
o2 sensors are pre turbo, one per header close to what would be the collector on a shorty header. Both were removed and inspected, they are all in tact.
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post #18 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 08:39 PM
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o2 sensors are pre turbo, one per header close to what would be the collector on a shorty header. Both were removed and inspected, they are all in tact.
Pull them out and make sure they are still intact. I just read that they should be after the turbo b/c they can't handle the heat and they may have melted.

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post #19 of 28 Old 06-16-2016, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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They were removed and carefully inspected, fully intact. This may be a question for a different thread but if there are 2 hego sensors, 1 sensor per bank, on a tuning/diagnostic standpoint, if they are post turbo, you couldn't differentiate between the banks. Say one bank lean/rich. I may be wrong. Interested in input on this topic.
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post #20 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 12:31 AM
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That is true with a single turbo system, but putting the sensors upstream is also affecting their accuracy due to both the increased heat and increased gas pressure.
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post #21 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Turbine housing.
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post #22 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 08:46 AM
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... putting the sensors upstream is also affecting their accuracy due to both the increased heat and increased gas pressure.
This is what I've read. They can show a richer condition than what it really is.
I learned this after I received all my pipes back from being ceramic coated so now I have to redo a few pipes to move the bungs.

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post #23 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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I can see where in my case it might not be the most well suited place for the o2 sensors. Simply put, I installed mine where the turbo kit had provisions (on3 foxbody) I guess in my case the o2's necessity outweighs "slight" innacuracy due to placement. I'm definitely going to read up on this topic.
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post #24 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 10:24 AM
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I wonder if a piece of welding slag came loose in the exhaust side of the system. Seems unlikely if it's all TIG welded but I suppose it's possible.
The compressor side of the turbo is still good as new?

At least it's good to see that the motor is probably good.

ks
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post #25 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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Either a piece of slag came loose or the turbine wheel came apart, just no way to tell. The compressor side is in like new condition. Yes it is a relief to visually see no engine damage via bore scope. I'm now looking to downsize from the 76mm to a 67mm but upgrading to a CBB unit.
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post #26 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 07:12 PM
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This is what I've read. They can show a richer condition than what it really is.
In some situations, but higher temperature and pressure make the lambda readings go up, which makes the mixture look leaner.

The LSU4.2 data sheet has this graph that shows how pressure affects the output:



Now imagine a scenario where the sensor is pre-turbine and the typical drive pressure is twice as much as boost pressure. Drive pressure will be 30psia for 7.5psig of boost and the lamda error will be something like +17-18%. That will make an 11.5 AFR look like 13.5.

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post #27 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 08:41 PM
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In some situations, but higher temperature and pressure make the lambda readings go up, which makes the mixture look leaner.

The LSU4.2 data sheet has this graph that shows how pressure affects the output:



Now imagine a scenario where the sensor is pre-turbine and the typical drive pressure is twice as much as boost pressure. Drive pressure will be 30psia for 7.5psig of boost and the lamda error will be something like +17-18%. That will make an 11.5 AFR look like 13.5.
This is the first I've seen of any data showing what actually happens only read what others have said and I haven't read anything that supports that data. Great Info!

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post #28 of 28 Old 06-17-2016, 10:07 PM
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The problem with damage like that is whatever caused the destruction is often long gone. It could have been trash, a weld booger, the turbine wheel itself losing part of a blade, or anything.

Ever since I had an oil pump pickup lose a chunk of metal I started inspecting everything. This is especially important with Chinese parts.

I remember about 20 years ago I bought a pole used to erect and dismantle towers. I did a test pull with the pole mounted at ground height. Long before I got to expected tension in a normal job, the welds all popped.

Anything critical should always be inspected.


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