2v Turbo Setups - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 05-06-2016, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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2v Turbo Setups

Have been doing research online about options for single 2v setups out there. It seems like there are complete opposite of the spectrum. The cheaper on3 setups, or you can drop some serious coin on a Hellion/custom setup. I ran into engine issues, and may end up keeping my car and pulling engine and swapping from blower to turbo. Quick rundown of what setup would be:

97 Block, .20
Manley H beam rods, all arp hardware
Manley 18cc Platinum series pistons
cobra crank
Trickflow 44cc heads with custom grind turbo cams
Edelbrock manifold, 6061 plenum

So after doing some research online, I'm finding tons of posts from anywhere from '12-14 with people bashing the quality of on3 kits. It seems like the few I'm finding more recently online suggest quality has gotten better. Does anybody have first hand experience with on3 piping? If I went through with this, I would definitely run an upgraded turbo, probably a precision, and upgraded components such as bov, wastegate, etc. But what about just the piping from on3? The next stage of the spectrum I'm reading great things about C&G Fab, which the quality does look awesome. But for a car that gets driven a few times a year, and is just a street warrior, cruiser...would this drastic price difference be worth the cost? Also, what are the differences and benefits of upgrading the material of the material say from mild steel to stainless? Just for heat/rusting purposes?

When it comes to turbo, because this is such a small cube motor, would say something like a 76mm be a good fit for a street car but capable of being 700+rwhp through an auto?

Any input and advice on the above would be greatly appreciated. I've been a blower guy the entire time I've been in the modular game, so am a bit new to turbos. Thanks in advance


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post #2 of 36 Old 05-06-2016, 12:10 PM
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Benefits of SS over Mild Steel are they won't rust out so they don't need coated but they do discolor and turn brown. They are supposed to retain some additional heat inside the pipes to aid spooling but on a street car will you REALLY notice? If you're going to wrap the pipes then you don't need to coat SS but you do/should coat mild steel although some will argue you don't.

Some things to ponder:
-If you buy a SS kit and it doesnít fit, can you modify and weld SS? If not then you may be screwed with the ON3 kit b/c itís 304SS. The CG kit comes in mild or SS. I bought the mild steel headers from CG when building my TT setup.

-If you think you may need to modify a kit then donít get it coated. Have it done after you verify that it all fits like it should. You donít want to buy a kit that is coated then cut/reweld it then have it coated again.

-Can you run a front sway bar with the On3 kit? The CG kit you cannot. Maybe you wonít need one, I dunno.

-Do you need front coilovers to run either kit? The CG kit only gives you the downpipes off the turbos. Youíll need to fab it up to the mufflers. With the ON3 kit it looks like you get the exhaust back to the cat-back pipesÖ?

-The ON3 kit looks very complete for $2000 but it does use mild steel headers even though the rest of the pipes are SS.

-My passenger side CG header hit the frame and I had to modify/notch the frame to clear it. Plan on doing this just to be safe but some people donít have issues. Maybe the ON3 is the same way, I dunno.

Price wise the ON3 kit looks the best value but unless you can weld SS this could be an issue if you need to modify it.

Turbos:
Before purchasing an off the self turbo give Brian Bissonette a shout. He can probably build you a custom billet turbo a lot cheaper than buying one off the shelf and it will give you some extra $$ towards a turbo kit. Great guy to deal with too.

https://www.facebook.com/Bisons-Perf...4136287790854/


ks

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post #3 of 36 Old 05-06-2016, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KEVIN$ View Post
Benefits of SS over Mild Steel are they won't rust out so they don't need coated but they do discolor and turn brown. They are supposed to retain some additional heat inside the pipes to aid spooling but on a street car will you REALLY notice? If you're going to wrap the pipes then you don't need to coat SS but you do/should coat mild steel although some will argue you don't.

Some things to ponder:
-If you buy a SS kit and it doesnít fit, can you modify and weld SS? If not then you may be screwed with the ON3 kit b/c itís 304SS. The CG kit comes in mild or SS. I bought the mild steel headers from CG when building my TT setup.

-If you think you may need to modify a kit then donít get it coated. Have it done after you verify that it all fits like it should. You donít want to buy a kit that is coated then cut/reweld it then have it coated again.

-Can you run a front sway bar with the On3 kit? The CG kit you cannot. Maybe you wonít need one, I dunno.

-Do you need front coilovers to run either kit? The CG kit only gives you the downpipes off the turbos. Youíll need to fab it up to the mufflers. With the ON3 kit it looks like you get the exhaust back to the cat-back pipesÖ?

-The ON3 kit looks very complete for $2000 but it does use mild steel headers even though the rest of the pipes are SS.

-My passenger side CG header hit the frame and I had to modify/notch the frame to clear it. Plan on doing this just to be safe but some people donít have issues. Maybe the ON3 is the same way, I dunno.

Price wise the ON3 kit looks the best value but unless you can weld SS this could be an issue if you need to modify it.

Turbos:
Before purchasing an off the self turbo give Brian Bissonette a shout. He can probably build you a custom billet turbo a lot cheaper than buying one off the shelf and it will give you some extra $$ towards a turbo kit. Great guy to deal with too.

https://www.facebook.com/Bisons-Perf...4136287790854/


ks
Thanks for all the great info. Turbo world is really very different from the blower world I come from. I have read many of your threads, and you really did some great work on your car. Those are all great points you bring up, and obviously I have a lot of research to do. Is Hellion still a very well setup kit that people are having success with? I'll look into your contact for the turbo as well. More than likely I think something like a 76mm will suit me perfectly for what my plans are with the car.

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post #4 of 36 Old 05-06-2016, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 97stanger97 View Post
Thanks for all the great info. Turbo world is really very different from the blower world I come from. I have read many of your threads, and you really did some great work on your car. Those are all great points you bring up, and obviously I have a lot of research to do. Is Hellion still a very well setup kit that people are having success with? I'll look into your contact for the turbo as well. More than likely I think something like a 76mm will suit me perfectly for what my plans are with the car.
I don't know anything about Hellion hopefully someone can give firsthand experience with them.

Feel free to pick my brain. I've learned a lot with this car and now that I have redone about everything on it I can certainly give you one perspective based on my experience.

Turbos are really nice and I'm really glad I designed my own kit to my own specs but it's not cheap, easy or quick doing it this way.

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post #5 of 36 Old 05-06-2016, 08:20 PM
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I've always built my own kits. You can literally build a hot side kit for less than $300 out of mild steel. It is time consuming and the initial cost of tools is what steer people away. Also depending on what manufacturer a 76mm may be over kill for 700rwhp. A precision 6768, borg sxe 366, or sxe 369 would be my choice. I'm at 550rwhp with my standard s366 on pump gas 260ci motor.

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post #6 of 36 Old 05-07-2016, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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I've always built my own kits. You can literally build a hot side kit for less than $300 out of mild steel. It is time consuming and the initial cost of tools is what steer people away. Also depending on what manufacturer a 76mm may be over kill for 700rwhp. A precision 6768, borg sxe 366, or sxe 369 would be my choice. I'm at 550rwhp with my standard s366 on pump gas 260ci motor.
Yeah to be honest, I would be in the same boat. I have no problem doing the engine work/installing the turbo setup...but I think custom fabbing the piping may be a bit out of my league. I'll definitely look into those other turbo's you mentioned.

I have a AIS 3 gallon trunk mount meth system that I was running 50/50 with on my car, and have an NX plate kit I was planning on slapping on top of this blower setup. Since I'm converting to turbo, will any of this stuff really be necessary for say a 700rwhp turbo auto car?

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post #7 of 36 Old 05-07-2016, 07:24 AM
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Yeah to be honest, I would be in the same boat. I have no problem doing the engine work/installing the turbo setup...but I think custom fabbing the piping may be a bit out of my league. I'll definitely look into those other turbo's you mentioned.

I have a AIS 3 gallon trunk mount meth system that I was running 50/50 with on my car, and have an NX plate kit I was planning on slapping on top of this blower setup. Since I'm converting to turbo, will any of this stuff really be necessary for say a 700rwhp turbo auto car?
Keep the meth..It's great insurance from detonation and since you already have it..... We made about 25-30 dyno pulls when tuning my car and with a single M15 we only used 1.5 gal of meth from the 3 gal tank in the trunk.

Sell the N2O and put it towards a Safegaurd Knock Detector.

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post #8 of 36 Old 05-07-2016, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Keep the meth..It's great insurance from detonation and since you already have it..... We made about 25-30 dyno pulls when tuning my car and with a single M15 we only used 1.5 gal of meth from the 3 gal tank in the trunk.

Sell the N2O and put it towards a Safegaurd Knock Detector.

ks
I had a crazy 3 nozzle setup for my blower, 1 pre blower and 2 pre throttle body. On a turbo setup, would something like just one nozzle pre-throttle body usually suffice?

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post #9 of 36 Old 05-07-2016, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JTsStang View Post
I've always built my own kits. You can literally build a hot side kit for less than $300 out of mild steel. It is time consuming and the initial cost of tools is what steer people away. Also depending on what manufacturer a 76mm may be over kill for 700rwhp. A precision 6768, borg sxe 366, or sxe 369 would be my choice. I'm at 550rwhp with my standard s366 on pump gas 260ci motor.
I think s300 series are to small of a turbo for a 2v. S472 sxe turbo with the right AR would be easy to spool , hit his hp goal and still leave him room to grow .

With all the pipe bends that are available from different suppliers it's really not hard to make a custom kit anymore. If you can mig weld then stainless or mild steel should be no problem. Just by stainless wire for a mig and you will be fine. I would recommend buying a set of headers instead of trying to fab up your own.

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I had a crazy 3 nozzle setup for my blower, 1 pre blower and 2 pre throttle body. On a turbo setup, would something like just one nozzle pre-throttle body usually suffice?
That would depend on how large the nozzle is and pump pressure. I haven't got to log my meth pressure yet but I think my Alky Control pump is maxed at 150psi and it was flowing at max psi by 6psi of boost to keep detonation away based on the SafeGuard. Based on how my car performed my single M15 isn't enough for 735hp and 91oct/100% meth so I will be installing a second nozzle.

My nozzles are installed pre-TB but after the air temp sensor.

ks



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post #11 of 36 Old 05-07-2016, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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I think s300 series are to small of a turbo for a 2v. S472 sxe turbo with the right AR would be easy to spool , hit his hp goal and still leave him room to grow .

With all the pipe bends that are available from different suppliers it's really not hard to make a custom kit anymore. If you can mig weld then stainless or mild steel should be no problem. Just by stainless wire for a mig and you will be fine. I would recommend buying a set of headers instead of trying to fab up your own.
Thanks again for the advice. I'll look into all of your suggestions.

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That would depend on how large the nozzle is and pump pressure. I haven't got to log my meth pressure yet but I think my Alky Control pump is maxed at 150psi and it was flowing at max psi by 6psi of boost to keep detonation away based on the SafeGuard. Based on how my car performed my single M15 isn't enough for 735hp and 91oct/100% meth so I will be installing a second nozzle.

My nozzles are installed pre-TB but after the air temp sensor.

ks
Good stuff. I'll hold onto my meth system for now than and probably run a dual nozzle setup pre-throttle body. Is it common to run the nozzles post-IAT sensor? On my blower setup I was running them pre-IAT kind of as a safeguard, where as the IAT would pull timing if something wasn't right

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post #12 of 36 Old 05-07-2016, 03:10 PM
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I'm not sure what the standard is I think it depends on which kit you use. I do it post temp sensor but the tuner tunes the engine manually based on KNOCK, AF and HP. If he didn't do it manually then the cars computer would pull timing due to the increased heat that it is registering since the meth isn't hitting the sensor and power falls off drastically.

One concern I have is if the achy hits the sensor then the engine will add timing b/c of the extra cooling affect. But what if the computer adds too much timing b/c it thinks the air is cooler than it really is? If the computer is wrong then it will knock. Maybe it isn't an issue, I dunno. I like my setup where I tune by watching the knock gauge that way I know what is going on inside each cylinder.

As long as the tuner knows what to do and you have enough electronics to monitor what's going on it doesn't matter, IMO.


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post #13 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what the standard is I think it depends on which kit you use. I do it post temp sensor but the tuner tunes the engine manually based on KNOCK, AF and HP. If he didn't do it manually then the cars computer would pull timing due to the increased heat that it is registering since the meth isn't hitting the sensor and power falls off drastically.

One concern I have is if the achy hits the sensor then the engine will add timing b/c of the extra cooling affect. But what if the computer adds too much timing b/c it thinks the air is cooler than it really is? If the computer is wrong then it will knock. Maybe it isn't an issue, I dunno. I like my setup where I tune by watching the knock gauge that way I know what is going on inside each cylinder.

As long as the tuner knows what to do and you have enough electronics to monitor what's going on it doesn't matter, IMO.


ks
Thank you again for all the info. I appreciate it. The more research I do, I am starting to lean towards a Hellion setup with an upgraded turbo from the turbonetics. Only thing I'd have to figure out is it looks like they use factory manifolds, which I got rid of mine years ago because I run long tubes. So I'm sure I could just get a nice ceramic shorty header to run instead. Do you have any knowledge on how these bumper exit exhaust setups are run? Is it literally just right from the down pipe, exiting the bumper? So no running any sort of mid pipe or cutback at all?

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Thank you again for all the info. I appreciate it. The more research I do, I am starting to lean towards a Hellion setup with an upgraded turbo from the turbonetics. Only thing I'd have to figure out is it looks like they use factory manifolds, which I got rid of mine years ago because I run long tubes. So I'm sure I could just get a nice ceramic shorty header to run instead. Do you have any knowledge on how these bumper exit exhaust setups are run? Is it literally just right from the down pipe, exiting the bumper? So no running any sort of mid pipe or cutback at all?
I'm not sure how the exhaust runs. Some are literally dumped in front of the front tire.
Which Hellion kit were you looking at, link?

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post #15 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure how the exhaust runs. Some are literally dumped in front of the front tire.
Which Hellion kit were you looking at, link?

ks
Well, it will either be the first or second. I have a '97 GT body, but my heads will be TF which are PI style heads. So I'm not sure if I would need the 96-98 kit, or the 99-04. It's possible they may categorize them different do to different front suspension parts? But it will either be the first or second depending on the actual year kit I need:

96-98:
96-98 Mustang GT Single Turbo System - 350 to 850 HP

99-04:
99-04 Mustang GT Single Turbo System - 350 to 850 HP

More than likely, I would upgrade to the Precision 76mm billet wheel turbo. Still reading up on ball bearing upgrades to see if that would be money well spent. Still reading up on which BOV/Wastegate are popular and well constructed so I don't waste my money on that too. I currently already have a Vortech Mondo BOV, but I'll sell that for the best turbo BOV for this system. I already have an HPX Blow thru MAF, so I may have to do some research about if I can convert this kit to blow thru. I already have SD 60# injectors, but I'll most likely upgrade to 80's.

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post #16 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 11:29 AM
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get the standard on3 kit with the 78 turbo and youll be fine

heres all the info youll ever need, give it a good read over

Pre Tune Information / EFIDynoTuning
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It looks like the pipes tuck up to the bottom of the kmember but make sure you have ground clearance for them.

I also have #80's and an HPX but I can't wait to get rid of the MAF once I get the Megasquirt up and running. The #80's will be fine especially since you'll be adding meth.

My car came with EMUSA Waste Gates and so far so good. Not sure of the blowoff valve tho.
I'm using an Eboost 2 for boost control. Too damn complicated for me but it works good.

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post #18 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 11:43 AM
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why would you want to downgrade from the factory ecu to a megasquirt?
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why would you want to downgrade from the factory ecu to a megasquirt?
Let's keep this thread on track for the OP.

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post #20 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 02:27 PM
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99-04 THP TT kit - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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It looks like the pipes tuck up to the bottom of the kmember but make sure you have ground clearance for them.

I also have #80's and an HPX but I can't wait to get rid of the MAF once I get the Megasquirt up and running. The #80's will be fine especially since you'll be adding meth.

My car came with EMUSA Waste Gates and so far so good. Not sure of the blowoff valve tho.
I'm using an Eboost 2 for boost control. Too damn complicated for me but it works good.

ks
The Eboost 2 looks bada** for sure. Very sleek setup.

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post #22 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link. Looks like a really nice deal. Haven't heard too much about THP. Good stuff?

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post #23 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 05:56 PM
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I believe the owners of thp were with HP performance whose kit I run. THP kit costs $7000. It is a nice kit.
Also search boost Leash for a boost controller.

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post #24 of 36 Old 05-08-2016, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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I believe the owners of thp were with HP performance whose kit I run. THP kit costs $7000. It is a nice kit.
Also search boost Leash for a boost controller.
Good stuff. I'll do a little reading on boost leash, quick search looks like a real quality product.

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Another silly question. I had a GI Joe 8 rib setup on this car with a Thump RRR tensioner and a 8 rib IW 10% overdrive crank pulley. I'm guessing with going turbo it would be best to go back to all stock pulleys and stock damper?

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post #26 of 36 Old 05-09-2016, 07:04 PM
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Yes, you can sell all of that stuff.
I wouldn't use a stock damper.

2002 2V TF heads Custom Edelbrock NA SVT Cams
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post #27 of 36 Old 05-09-2016, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, you can sell all of that stuff.
I wouldn't use a stock damper.
Would it be possible to just re-use my 8 rib pulleys and run an 8 rib accessory setup instead of selling it all and going back to 6 rib? If I already have the 8 rib pulleys for alternator, water pump, a/c, etc...any thoughts on that? And I'm sorry, I wouldn't run a stock damper...I meant a stock diameter. I would get a IW 8 rib damper but stock diameter to use with my existing 8 rib pulleys that I already have

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post #28 of 36 Old 05-09-2016, 09:37 PM
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Yes, you can.. Do that.

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post #29 of 36 Old 05-11-2016, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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I have a brand new NX plate kit that I was planning on running with my blower. Would I be crazy to run a small 50 shot with a turbo setup? I also already have an AIS meth system on the car from my blower setup. Again, would I be crazy to run meth and/or nitrous with a turbo setup?

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post #30 of 36 Old 05-11-2016, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 97stanger97 View Post
I have a brand new NX plate kit that I was planning on running with my blower. Would I be crazy to run a small 50 shot with a turbo setup? I also already have an AIS meth system on the car from my blower setup. Again, would I be crazy to run meth and/or nitrous with a turbo setup?
People do it but it seems that you're going a bit overboard for a car that "gets driven a few times a year, and is just a street warrior, cruiser" with the N2O.

I wonder how often you would actually use it when cruising around, though. If the car truly won't get driven that much then you'll have to make sure the bottle is always full at all times "just in case". I don't know what your driving habits will be in 2-3 years but my guess is that once the bottle is empty it will rarely be full b/c the turbo/meth will provide all the bang you'll want at the exact moment you want it.

y2k02 above has some vids of his car spooling and it spools fast so I don't know if you'd need the N2O for a fun street car. I'd sell it.

ks


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post #31 of 36 Old 05-11-2016, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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People do it but it seems that you're going a bit overboard for a car that "gets driven a few times a year, and is just a street warrior, cruiser" with the N2O.

I wonder how often you would actually use it when cruising around, though. If the car truly won't get driven that much then you'll have to make sure the bottle is always full at all times "just in case". I don't know what your driving habits will be in 2-3 years but my guess is that once the bottle is empty it will rarely be full b/c the turbo/meth will provide all the bang you'll want at the exact moment you want it.

y2k02 above has some vids of his car spooling and it spools fast so I don't know if you'd need the N2O for a fun street car. I'd sell it.

ks
Yeah, you're right. Just one of those things that I already have it sitting here. But since I'm so new to the turbo game it will probably make most sense to sell this thing and put it towards the build and getting used to this setup first.

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post #32 of 36 Old 05-12-2016, 01:15 PM
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Have been doing research online about options for single 2v setups out there. It seems like there are complete opposite of the spectrum. The cheaper on3 setups, or you can drop some serious coin on a Hellion/custom setup. I ran into engine issues, and may end up keeping my car and pulling engine and swapping from blower to turbo. Quick rundown of what setup would be:

97 Block, .20
Manley H beam rods, all arp hardware
Manley 18cc Platinum series pistons
cobra crank
Trickflow 44cc heads with custom grind turbo cams
Edelbrock manifold, 6061 plenum

So after doing some research online, I'm finding tons of posts from anywhere from '12-14 with people bashing the quality of on3 kits. It seems like the few I'm finding more recently online suggest quality has gotten better. Does anybody have first hand experience with on3 piping? If I went through with this, I would definitely run an upgraded turbo, probably a precision, and upgraded components such as bov, wastegate, etc. But what about just the piping from on3? The next stage of the spectrum I'm reading great things about C&G Fab, which the quality does look awesome. But for a car that gets driven a few times a year, and is just a street warrior, cruiser...would this drastic price difference be worth the cost? Also, what are the differences and benefits of upgrading the material of the material say from mild steel to stainless? Just for heat/rusting purposes?

When it comes to turbo, because this is such a small cube motor, would say something like a 76mm be a good fit for a street car but capable of being 700+rwhp through an auto?

Any input and advice on the above would be greatly appreciated. I've been a blower guy the entire time I've been in the modular game, so am a bit new to turbos. Thanks in advance
Here is my setup:

'05 WAP block
Diamond .020" over 15cc dish pistons
10.0:1
Manely H-beams w/ARP 2000's
Cobra crank
MHS stage 3 PI heads
Hi-Tech Motorsports custom turbo grind cams
Edelbrock Victor Jr intake w/MHS elbow & Accufab 75mm tb
Ford 80's
E-85
Cobra tank w/Fore hat & 3 Ford GT pumps
-10 feed, -8 to the rails, -8 back to the tank
A1000 regulator
HPX-E Maf
Custom Turbo kit
PTE 7175 @ 20 psi
T-56
3.27 gears
Built rear end

785 rwhp / 725 rwtq @ 20 psi.
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'91 GT: SOLD

'04 GT: Forged bottom end, MHS Stg 3 PI heads, Hi-Tech Custom Cams, MHS Vic Jr + elbow, custom turbo kit, Precision 7175, T-56 & 3.27's. 785rwhp/725rwtq @ 20 psi.
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Here is my setup:

'05 WAP block
Diamond .020" over 15cc dish pistons
10.0:1
Manely H-beams w/ARP 2000's
Cobra crank
MHS stage 3 PI heads
Hi-Tech Motorsports custom turbo grind cams
Edelbrock Victor Jr intake w/MHS elbow & Accufab 75mm tb
Ford 80's
E-85
Cobra tank w/Fore hat & 3 Ford GT pumps
-10 feed, -8 to the rails, -8 back to the tank
A1000 regulator
HPX-E Maf
Custom Turbo kit
PTE 7175 @ 20 psi
T-56
3.27 gears
Built rear end

785 rwhp / 725 rwtq @ 20 psi.
Thanks for the rundown on your setup. Do you happen to have any pics you can post up? You had the hot and cold sides custom made? Anything you maybe would have done differently?

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post #34 of 36 Old 05-12-2016, 06:50 PM
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785 rwhp / 725 rwtq @ 20 psi.
Do you have any track times running 20psi??

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post #35 of 36 Old 05-23-2016, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for the rundown on your setup. Do you happen to have any pics you can post up? You had the hot and cold sides custom made? Anything you maybe would have done differently?
I believe the kit was originally built by TDC (Turbo Design Concepts) and then modified by the previous owner.

I only have pictures of the kit installed. I never thought about taking any when I reinstalled the kit after the new engine was built.

I can describe the kit if you would like?

'91 GT: SOLD

'04 GT: Forged bottom end, MHS Stg 3 PI heads, Hi-Tech Custom Cams, MHS Vic Jr + elbow, custom turbo kit, Precision 7175, T-56 & 3.27's. 785rwhp/725rwtq @ 20 psi.
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